Kevin Hagan on Bill King's Show (January 10)

GrayTide

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IDK who Kevin Hagan is or how much of what he told Bill King is the gospel, but there are definitely parts he said that most on this board, including me, have tiptoed around all season long. I will not go into that at the risk of being considered negative. So I will just take the interview at face value.

KrAzY made a point that Hurts needs a system to fit his skill set which I have said all along, but with Tua's obvious skill set, talent and ability to run Daboll's offense, to me, means if Hurts cannot pickup the system then he needs to consider a position change or transfer. Locker room problems have killed many great teams at some point. I did like Hagan's comment that Pruitt was not the enemy, not so apparently with Smart. My favorite takeaway in this entire thread is Brad's comment about Smart's $5 haircut priceless.
 

Maxbama

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Not to toot my own horn, but I've been saying for a while that what we were seeing wasn't Daboll - when your playbook shrinks weekly due to your starting QB's tendencies / limitations (not a knock on JH, just fact), it's difficult to rock talented teams.

We saw what he can do when the playbook is opened up. UGA had no answer for Tua - I don't know how anyone can. It's not just him, it's having five other 5* skill guys out there running the ball or running routes - literally only one or two teams in FBS can consistently stop that kinda of talent - and I'm not sure if anyone can.

IF (big if) Saban can break his conservative tendencies and these changes stick, this offense will be very scary next year. What you saw in the second half, against arguably the third best defense in all of CFB in 2017, was just the beginning...

*insert CharminTide's recipe for crow (for those who need it) here*
I agree completely. I get really frustrated when people put down the OC. His hands were completely tied to what his QB could execute. That was where a tremendous amount of frustration from the receivers was coming from. A good QB will anticipate and throw a good receiver open. Jalen could not do that. I think Daboll was the happiest guy on our team when that change was made. Boy - did he deliver. The defense didn't know what to do.
 

russtang

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Well my gut feelings on Kirby were apparently correct. I don't "wish him well" like many do.

I think CNS has been struggling with his loyalty to Jalen and his knowledge that Tua would be the better choice for some time. There's no way he couldn't see what was happening in the locker room and what was being said in coaches meetings. It was obvious on the practice field too.
 

Maxbama

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I enjoyed that listen, thanks for the link.

I will disagree about the watershed decision moment for Nick Saban. I honestly think it came when Lane Kiffin arrived. Before Lane Kiffin, Saban's philosophy was kind of like a reverse Spurrier in that he just didn't want the other side of the ball to screw up his chances of winning. Alabama played ball control, took time off the clock, established the dominance of the offensive line, and tried to get 17 points on the board to win the game. Then this gimmick offense plague started and people enjoyed seeing all these points and people running all over the field and Saban was faced with a decision: stay the same or adapt. Then the Lane train arrived. Now Alabama has an offensive coordinator who's flashy, arrogant, dangerous, and brings an offense to match. Suddenly we have jet sweeps, we're throwing deep far more frequently than before, and passing and scoring records are falling by the wayside in droves. Let's not forget guys like Blake Sims and Jalen Hurts at quarterback: not just mobile, but very dangerous runners with the ball in their hands, a definite deviation from the Saban quarterback in previous years. This decision couldn't have been easy for him, much like Spurrier finally conceding that he needed more focus on the defensive side of the ball and hiring Bob Stoops to do just that.

So, while pulling Hurts for Tua was a very gutsy move and deserving of all the praise it is getting, I really think shifting offensive philosophies and becoming more dynamic was truly Saban's watershed decision of his latter coaching career. We have two National Titles to show for it already.
I agree with your points. But, I would add that what Saban prefers is to run a pro style offense. Jalen wasn't recruited for his pros style game. Tua is the real deal. I know I am more comfortable looking into the future and thinking that we are moving back to the pro style offense with an awesome defense. When you can run the ball, pass the ball and shut down other offenses - you are going to win most of the time.
 

2003TIDE

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Yeah, I need to know about this Kirby stuff. Why can’t we start a thread on that. Please give me more reasons to dislike UGA.


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Word on the street is he flipped recruits this year by telling them Saban is retiring at the end of 2018.
 

Redwood Forrest

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Well, I'm glad someone could say it, since I couldn't. :D I did hint. What was new to me was Locksley's role in persuading the young receivers to hang in. However, I do feel that, if Tua hadn't gone in, we would have had some significant transfers in the receiver corps and it would have had a devastating effect on recruiting skill positions. It had already hurt. What he says about Tosh is correct. It's a bit of an uncomfortable situation. He didn't say much about Smart, but I agree that he is henceforth the enemy. He reneged on a number of "gentlemen's agreements" about recruiting targets and, it appears, recruited them surreptitiously for UGA. He and Saban will always now be a bit uncomfortable around each other, I think. I believe that Coach is trying very hard to look on the bright side of things. Knowing what the stakes were, at the halftime, I still feared that Jalen would jog out again. My hat's off to Coach...
I am glad someone said it as well. At halftime I told my wife "if Jalen starts the second half I will not watch another Bama game until we get a QB who can pass." They reason was not because I was mad ..... it was because I was disgusted at watching a team SO TALENTED struggle so badly. It was painful at Miss State and even more painful watching that fiasco at Auburn. I left her at the end of the 3rd of Auburn and went to town just because I was so disgusted watching us go three and out again and again.

I can handle upsets (like Ole Miss) and getting outplayed sometimes. But to deliberately put ourselves in upset situations drives me crazy. As the fellow pointed out about all the talent we have, I just hate to watch it go to waste.

When Tua went in I lost my defeatism and got all pumped up. I told the wife that we could win this now. I never thought we would lose even when Tua got sacked in OT. It was amazing the effect that switch had on me and I can imagine how it felt to the team.
 

TideMom2Boys

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This is 100% worth the listen. Wow, gave me chills listening to it.


You know I was thinking this Championship is probably one of the most important ones for recruiting. Recruits will see that Saban has no problem playing true freshman in such an important game.
 

TomFromBama

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Not going to flame on you. But yeah, you drove the car into the swimming pool on this one. He can't even break the starting lineup at ASU. And my guess is he'll be a career backup until he graduates.

But let's just say you're right about Barnett, the fact the he wasn't liked by his teammates would have impacted how they responded to him on the field. So the offense would have suffered either way.
Oh, it clearly impacted how they responded on the field, and the coaches did nothing to stop it. You an go back and watch the games - he had more bad snaps - either over his head or snapped into the crossing RB, and more drops, than Jalen did. Basically, the "inmates ran the asylum" on that decision, which only ratified what the coaching staff wanted anyway.

And laugh all you want - but BB Still posted better stats (when measured per play and per attempt, even total yards per play) than Jalen did through the first 4 games, despite getting little support from his teammates. The stats don't lie.

Yes, he's "flamed out" at a second tier program. The kid had two chances to pick a school and struck out both times. No real surprise BB has been buried on the depth chart - he was recruited to Az State by the OC who quit shortly after BB signed. Maybe you've hear of him - a guy named Chip Lindsey? FWIW, Lindsey has done a pretty credible job of developing Jarrett Stidham, a QB who was beaten out in the 2014 Elite 11 competition by BB....

Yea, BB was such a dud that he won the MVP of the 2014 Elite 11, over a group that included Josh Rosen, Sam Darnold, Brandon Winbush, Jarrett Stidham (hung 26 points on our defense last November), Drew Lock (lead the Nation in passing this year) and Deondre Francois.

Doesn't mean he would have panned out. There were other guys in that Elite 11 group who didn't make it. Still, his ratings by ALL the major recruiting services, his Elite 11 performance, the fact that he was Saban's #1 QB target in 2015, and that fact that he posted better stats in his brief opportunities at UA, all sorta cuts against any argument that he was already a bust in September 2016.

ONLY My opinion, of course. No one has to agree with me - obviously! :)
 

TomFromBama

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I am glad someone said it as well. At halftime I told my wife "if Jalen starts the second half I will not watch another Bama game until we get a QB who can pass." They reason was not because I was mad ..... it was because I was disgusted at watching a team SO TALENTED struggle so badly. It was painful at Miss State and even more painful watching that fiasco at Auburn. I left her at the end of the 3rd of Auburn and went to town just because I was so disgusted watching us go three and out again and again.

I can handle upsets (like Ole Miss) and getting outplayed sometimes. But to deliberately put ourselves in upset situations drives me crazy. As the fellow pointed out about all the talent we have, I just hate to watch it go to waste.

When Tua went in I lost my defeatism and got all pumped up. I told the wife that we could win this now. I never thought we would lose even when Tua got sacked in OT. It was amazing the effect that switch had on me and I can imagine how it felt to the team.
I had much the same response. Honestly, as the first half neared a close, and we (predictably) took a knee rather than even TRYING to make something happen on our last possession, I very nearly turned the TV off and went to bed. That was the closest I'd come to walking out or switching off an Alabama game since ....well, probably since 2006.

As you said - its one thing to be outplayed. It's a different situation altogether when it appears we aren't doing all we can to win. :(
 

bamaga

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After the game, when CNS said, "I'm so happy...happier than I've ever been" (loosely quoted) it probably had something to do with knowing his gamble to play Tua proved to work and it now makes dealing with the QB issue during the off season fairly easy now.
It may also have something to do with who he beat. Most people had very little knowledge of the how deep the rift between Kirby and NICK. Kirby goes out of his way to tell anyone that will listen he isn’t running Nick Sabans program, although what he has done at UGA is almost identical down the the Nutrition programs and hiring all the athletic ‘advisors. Winning that game and denying Kirby might of been the ultimate ‘in your face’ satisfying moment for Nick. If you saw the Smart postgame presser, it was kinda strange with all the ‘Georgia’s not going anywhere’ type comments.
 

Bamabuzzard

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ONLY My opinion, of course. No one has to agree with me - obviously! :)
I don't. :p


Oh, it clearly impacted how they responded on the field, and the coaches did nothing to stop it.
Regarding this, the coaches can't do anything about it. You can't make someone "like" or "accept" someone else. If we were talking one, maybe two (and I'll give three) players who didn't like BB. Then yeah, that would have been manageable. But it wasn't just two or three. It was a substantial amount of the team that didn't like the guy. The guy who is supposed to be the leader of the team. It is a waste of time to discuss, but if that many players didn't like the guy, who had the problem? The numerous players who didn't like the one guy, or the one guy? My guess is the "one guy" was the problem. But again, that is pure speculation on my part.
 

GrayTide

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I agree completely. I get really frustrated when people put down the OC. His hands were completely tied to what his QB could execute. That was where a tremendous amount of frustration from the receivers was coming from. A good QB will anticipate and throw a good receiver open. Jalen could not do that. I think Daboll was the happiest guy on our team when that change was made. Boy - did he deliver. The defense didn't know what to do.
Well said. Also a good QB knows the routes and throws to a spot where the receiver will be. If you wait until the receiver is completely open then it is too late; which IMO is what Hurts does. This is a very difficult skill to comprehend and develop especially when 275lb DL an blitzing LBs are coming at you full speed.
 

CrimsonProf

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Oh, it clearly impacted how they responded on the field, and the coaches did nothing to stop it. You an go back and watch the games - he had more bad snaps - either over his head or snapped into the crossing RB, and more drops, than Jalen did. Basically, the "inmates ran the asylum" on that decision, which only ratified what the coaching staff wanted anyway.

And laugh all you want - but BB Still posted better stats (when measured per play and per attempt, even total yards per play) than Jalen did through the first 4 games, despite getting little support from his teammates. The stats don't lie.

Yes, he's "flamed out" at a second tier program. The kid had two chances to pick a school and struck out both times. No real surprise BB has been buried on the depth chart - he was recruited to Az State by the OC who quit shortly after BB signed. Maybe you've hear of him - a guy named Chip Lindsey? FWIW, Lindsey has done a pretty credible job of developing Jarrett Stidham, a QB who was beaten out in the 2014 Elite 11 competition by BB....

Yea, BB was such a dud that he won the MVP of the 2014 Elite 11, over a group that included Josh Rosen, Sam Darnold, Brandon Winbush, Jarrett Stidham (hung 26 points on our defense last November), Drew Lock (lead the Nation in passing this year) and Deondre Francois.

Doesn't mean he would have panned out. There were other guys in that Elite 11 group who didn't make it. Still, his ratings by ALL the major recruiting services, his Elite 11 performance, the fact that he was Saban's #1 QB target in 2015, and that fact that he posted better stats in his brief opportunities at UA, all sorta cuts against any argument that he was already a bust in September 2016.

ONLY My opinion, of course. No one has to agree with me - obviously! :)
People disagree with you because Barnett and his father were a locker room cancer.


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RTR91

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Maybe Barnett would have done well if he had more time. He quit on the team, though.

He threw a total of 5 passes for Arizona State this year. That's not a good sign at all.


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