Me, listening to this interview.
Tua's arm and ability are going to revolutionize the way we play football.
Kevin Hagan on Bill King's Show (January 10)
- Thread starter RTR91
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Me, listening to this interview.
Tua's arm and ability are going to revolutionize the way we play football.
Him and his antics at Georgia and Pruitt going to Tennessee are going to make it difficult for me not to pull for the Vols. I definitely will when they and Georgia play.
I'm hardly an insider but I do know some who are closer to the front door than me at least. This pretty much jives with the impressions I had been hearing for most of the season. Frankly, from around mid-season there was a growing sentiment that a change needed to be made within the team. It was never an issue about Hurts personally but simply that this team had too much skill player talent to be wasted on a QB who lacked confidence in his throwing ability. My point since the Iron Bowl has been: we either need to go to a 100% 1-read RPO offense with Jalen or run Daboll's modern pro-style spread with Tua. It was readily evident in the extended 2nd string time Tagovailoa got before November that he was a different kind of quarterback than we've ever had. He could already make throws that McCarron wasn't making until his 4th year Junior season. Football isn't that complicated. You can either make the throws or you can't. In 2017, Tua could and Jalen couldn't. I firmly believe that if we could RS Jalen Hurts and have him start like Blake Sims as a 5th year player after Tua is drafted following his Jr campaign, he could very well be a great all-around quarterback. The problem is that we can't afford to spend 3 or 4 seasons of the backend of Saban's tenure developing a guy into a championship-caliber quarterback. A lot of schools would be blessed to have Jalen learn on the job but Alabama is not one of those schools. We were blessed to have him in 2016 but a more "ready" product was available in 2017 and we wouldn't pull the trigger because of a football calculus that amounted to: "he won't give up 7 points per game due to turnovers and we'll also likely score 21 less points due to plays he can't execute." That sounds dumb because it is dumb. No offense to Jalen, he ought to be in his second year of developing into a college QB not being asked to execute at a high level on a championship team.
Saban is almost risk adverse to a fault and it has bitten the team in the behind more than once. So I don't think he was being hyperbolic that the choice to "bring on the freshmen" maybe preserved the dynasty. It wouldn't have just been a second straight national title game loss, it would've been a pretty clean baton pass to UGA. I think Saban would be looking at a situation where a lot of freshmen and other underclassmen transfer out (and this is a crown jewel class to cherish considering there is a slight bit of recruiting uncertainty), losing a ton of his best recruiters over the last few years, and Smart now validating his program by year two in one of the most important recruiting regions in the South. It would've irreparably damaged his program to not make the change because of the chain reaction it would've caused. Will Saban be more willing to play true freshmen even if there is veteran depth in the future? I hope so, I truly hope he learned that lesson. You could make an argument that with a greater willingness to play young guys that Alabama could be in the middle of a NDSU-like run where we've won 6 of the last 7 titles. This year was certainly one to maybe break that tendency due to the QB stuff and all the injuries pressing young guys into action. Even this year has examples of where this has almost cost us. Moses probably should've gotten all the snaps in practice leading up to the MSU game instead of giving the starting role to a reliable but physically limited veteran in Holcombe.
There is a lot to learn as a fan from this season but even more for the head coach to learn in my opinion. I'm glad he pulled the trigger at the last possible moment to save the offense from ruining another great defense.
Saban is almost risk adverse to a fault and it has bitten the team in the behind more than once. So I don't think he was being hyperbolic that the choice to "bring on the freshmen" maybe preserved the dynasty. It wouldn't have just been a second straight national title game loss, it would've been a pretty clean baton pass to UGA. I think Saban would be looking at a situation where a lot of freshmen and other underclassmen transfer out (and this is a crown jewel class to cherish considering there is a slight bit of recruiting uncertainty), losing a ton of his best recruiters over the last few years, and Smart now validating his program by year two in one of the most important recruiting regions in the South. It would've irreparably damaged his program to not make the change because of the chain reaction it would've caused. Will Saban be more willing to play true freshmen even if there is veteran depth in the future? I hope so, I truly hope he learned that lesson. You could make an argument that with a greater willingness to play young guys that Alabama could be in the middle of a NDSU-like run where we've won 6 of the last 7 titles. This year was certainly one to maybe break that tendency due to the QB stuff and all the injuries pressing young guys into action. Even this year has examples of where this has almost cost us. Moses probably should've gotten all the snaps in practice leading up to the MSU game instead of giving the starting role to a reliable but physically limited veteran in Holcombe.
There is a lot to learn as a fan from this season but even more for the head coach to learn in my opinion. I'm glad he pulled the trigger at the last possible moment to save the offense from ruining another great defense.
Good stuff, although I never heard of Kevin Hagan, I thought he was spot on. I’ll admit, I was particularly hard on Daboll and thought that maybe it would be in his best interest to go back to the NFL next season but you could tell his playcalling was dictated by Jalen’s abilities. Once Tua came in, we began to see a side of Daboll that I think is suited more to his strengths as a play caller and certainly dictated what he wanted to do. It will be interesting to see how this offense will look next year given Tua is the starter.
As for Kirby, I thought outside the snake in the grass recruiting, he left a bad taste in Saban’s mouth by the performance of the D against Clemson in 2016. If you remember the trophy presentation, many of the players looked angry even though they had just won the NC. I’m still scratching my head on how he (Kirby) was able to pull Fields in seeing he has Fromm for at least two more years. I wonder what negative recruiting he shot to land that guy.
In all, the future looks bright, I believe we are in good shape to return to the CFP as long as Saban is around.
“17 is here...get ready for 18”
As for Kirby, I thought outside the snake in the grass recruiting, he left a bad taste in Saban’s mouth by the performance of the D against Clemson in 2016. If you remember the trophy presentation, many of the players looked angry even though they had just won the NC. I’m still scratching my head on how he (Kirby) was able to pull Fields in seeing he has Fromm for at least two more years. I wonder what negative recruiting he shot to land that guy.
In all, the future looks bright, I believe we are in good shape to return to the CFP as long as Saban is around.
“17 is here...get ready for 18”
I don't want this to come across as an Eeyore comment seeing we are still reveling in the NC win on Monday night, but one half of football does not guarantee another CFP appearance or an undefeated SECC. We are losing some very talented players on the defensive side of the LOS, maybe the best punter in the last 20 plus years, not to mention Pruitt, Ansley and maybe other coaches. If Tua is our QB in 2018 and beyond we are certainly headed in the right direction but there are still quite a few question marks, one of those immediately is how we finish in recruiting. We need a strong finish. This is strictly my opinion. Roll Tide.
There are a lot of layers to this onion. But overall, I don't think it's accurate to say Saban is risk adverse to a fault he is anything but that. If anything he is a calculated risk taker too many episodes showing where he will make the staff change, the recruiting reach, and the critical in game call.
But he understands what wins football games and it's the same method that has always won titles at Bama, defense first, minimize turnovers and penalties, and run the football. And pro-style offense does this consistently and better than any other form of offense that was largely developed by coaches with connections to Alabama.
Coach does place a high value on seniority because it correlates to winning the aforementioned way. It's also the model employed at the professional ranks too.
Indeed coach had locker room problems but those problems had to be settled on the field to keep the team together the staff together. Most importantly he needed Jalen to see on the field this approach while good 9 times out 10 wasn't going to be successful for our program's ultimate goal.
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But he understands what wins football games and it's the same method that has always won titles at Bama, defense first, minimize turnovers and penalties, and run the football. And pro-style offense does this consistently and better than any other form of offense that was largely developed by coaches with connections to Alabama.
Coach does place a high value on seniority because it correlates to winning the aforementioned way. It's also the model employed at the professional ranks too.
Indeed coach had locker room problems but those problems had to be settled on the field to keep the team together the staff together. Most importantly he needed Jalen to see on the field this approach while good 9 times out 10 wasn't going to be successful for our program's ultimate goal.
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Wow....great stuff. This guy is obviously plugged in at the highest levels. Thanks for sharing with the rest of us.
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Really good interview. Fascinating stuff behind the scenes.
As for Tua comparisons:
Release: Marino
Arm Strength: Elway
Accuracy: Brees
Touch: Montana
Toughness: Stabler
Elusiveness: Namath in his younger days
Or at least that's how he looked on a few different plays.
Point is, the kid's got some talent.
Wonderful read and very insightful. Thanks for all the comments.
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Funny you should mention the Auburn game this past season. I went home to visit the folks and watch the Iron Bowl with them. With the 4th quarter fiasco and a fit of aggravation, I had to apologize to my mom after that game. I didn't visit back home at all during the playoff games. Looking punch drunk lost behind the line of scrimmage for the last few games was about all I could even deal with. That feeling was very evident in the first half of the championship game up until I heard Phil comment on the air after Coach Saban's halftime interview "Well, it looks like Tua is going to have to finally come in and pass us out of this mess". I changed shirts, put on my lucky crimson ball cap, and had a much better outlook on life at the start of the 3rd quarter after the kickoff.
If Tua was so obviously the better QB since about mid season, it’s a little troubling that it took until the last half of the year for Saban to finally make a move. I’m not going to worry too much about it now, since everything turned out so great in the end. Still, it’s just a little troubling.
Look no further than the Clemson game as an example of why that move wasn't made. Hurts was in there to not lose the game, to not make big mistakes, and since he didn't have to do more than that he was the right guy for those circumstances. Fast forward to the Georgia game and it was a different situation, but you saw the issues that almost became catastrophic. Yes, Tua needed to come in, I said that, but Saban didn't even try to hide his displeasure with some big mistakes. Passing on a running play, giving up a huge sack, clock management issues. Those are all understandable mistakes given that he's a true freshman, but they were also things that Saban really wants to avoid. You didn't need those risks in the Clemson game.
I think next season Tua can clean that stuff up, but people think big, downfield passing, who can get them the ball, etc... They don't always think false starts, clock management, fumbled snaps, not knowing the play, all those sorts of things that can change the momentum in a game as well. Saban played it safe, and it got Alabama where it needed to go.
Apologies to Brian Daboll.
Kirby and most Georgia fans are pretty sure they are going to dominate the east for the foreseeable future, I hope Jeremy changes that narrative.
Kirby and most Georgia fans are pretty sure they are going to dominate the east for the foreseeable future, I hope Jeremy changes that narrative.
I will admit not to reading all 11 pages of comments so far (did read the first three) but I wanted to offer up my take on this guy's take...
1) I don't know this guy, can't/won't vouch for him but Bill King typically doesn't just let any yahoo get that kind of airtime without challenging him. That's my way of saying Bill probably vetted him to some degree.
2) TideFans.com staff have heard rumors of team unrest all year. At worst, it was the whole team about to go on the picket line. At best, it was 2-3 of the receiver corps grousing about a lack of opportunities. I will take the opportunity to remind everyone who is rushing to pat Mike Locksley on the back for averting some type of coup that it's Locksley who sets the WR rotation and kept running Robert Foster out there ahead of three freshmen, so if young receivers were truly about to overthrow the government, they should have started with their own general. Yes, younger kids have threatened to transfer already this year. At Alabama under Saban, that is not an irregular occurrence. I don't know what the exact depth of that discomfort got to last Monday, but as a friend of mine said today, if you think we had players at halftime chaining themselves to garbage cans and refusing to go back out for the second half unless Tua was playing, you probably have watched one too many movies. Our halftime frustration was real; the way the team reacted to it may be a bit less sensational.
3) The part about having to tell some kids who haven't developed yet to hit the road has been going on here with regularity since 2007, and it went on during Bryant's day, too. Alabama does engage in roster management, yes. Not everyone has the opportunity to come back for year five. We live in a day now where the NCAA has pushed schools to offer four-year scholarships rather than one-year renewals, but kids still can be "politicked" into hearing about other opportunities and getting an accurate assessment on what their future playing time is likely to be if they stay in Tuscaloosa. I'm not saying I'm comfy with any of it but it happens and it's going to happen as long as Saban is here. It's also not new to this year.
4) Kirby rubbed some people the wrong way his last couple of years here. I'm trying to decide whether that really means anything. Nick Saban rubs people the wrong way every day.
1) I don't know this guy, can't/won't vouch for him but Bill King typically doesn't just let any yahoo get that kind of airtime without challenging him. That's my way of saying Bill probably vetted him to some degree.
2) TideFans.com staff have heard rumors of team unrest all year. At worst, it was the whole team about to go on the picket line. At best, it was 2-3 of the receiver corps grousing about a lack of opportunities. I will take the opportunity to remind everyone who is rushing to pat Mike Locksley on the back for averting some type of coup that it's Locksley who sets the WR rotation and kept running Robert Foster out there ahead of three freshmen, so if young receivers were truly about to overthrow the government, they should have started with their own general. Yes, younger kids have threatened to transfer already this year. At Alabama under Saban, that is not an irregular occurrence. I don't know what the exact depth of that discomfort got to last Monday, but as a friend of mine said today, if you think we had players at halftime chaining themselves to garbage cans and refusing to go back out for the second half unless Tua was playing, you probably have watched one too many movies. Our halftime frustration was real; the way the team reacted to it may be a bit less sensational.
3) The part about having to tell some kids who haven't developed yet to hit the road has been going on here with regularity since 2007, and it went on during Bryant's day, too. Alabama does engage in roster management, yes. Not everyone has the opportunity to come back for year five. We live in a day now where the NCAA has pushed schools to offer four-year scholarships rather than one-year renewals, but kids still can be "politicked" into hearing about other opportunities and getting an accurate assessment on what their future playing time is likely to be if they stay in Tuscaloosa. I'm not saying I'm comfy with any of it but it happens and it's going to happen as long as Saban is here. It's also not new to this year.
4) Kirby rubbed some people the wrong way his last couple of years here. I'm trying to decide whether that really means anything. Nick Saban rubs people the wrong way every day.
I'm not sure how anyone can say that Saban isn't risk averse.
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If you want to see visible tension between Saban and Smart, watch the interview Chris Fowler did with both of them. They said they right things, but they never looked at each other, especially Kirby. Kirby never turned his head in Saban's direction. I've seen Saban with McElwain and other former assistants in past, and it never looked this icy.Well, I'm glad someone could say it, since I couldn't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR7yfTwj3mg
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