Link: Deja vu on the Bayou: Early exits hit LSU hardest in college football

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
39,407
6
0
Prattville
Click

This year's early departures make 33 over the last 6 years. So many questions to be asked about that program and their overall production in that time frame.
 

TideEngineer08

TideFans Legend
Jun 9, 2009
36,284
30,895
187
Beautiful Cullman, AL
Y'all remember Curly Hallman and Gerry DiNardo don't you? I know I do. Never considered LSU anything more than a doormat growing up. Although new forces will step in to take their place, I'm happy to see them going back.
 

Power Eye

All-SEC
Aug 3, 2005
1,146
1,217
187
47
The article seems to be saying that LSU is a victim of just bad luck in that so many of their underclassmen have left early over the last few years. I think it's glossing over what the real issue is there, and probably intentionally since identifying the issue isn't necessarily the intent of the article.

I don't think LSU has had more talent than us over the last 5 years. Looking at some of the names of the LSU players that left early is puzzling. I just think the talent at LSU is much more willing to leave early for two reasons. Primarily, Alabama players are consistently playing for SEC and national titles and LSU players aren't, so what is the incentive to stay at LSU. Also, Alabama players are probably getting much more thorough and honest advice as to whether staying or leaving will improve their NFL prospects.
 

TideEngineer08

TideFans Legend
Jun 9, 2009
36,284
30,895
187
Beautiful Cullman, AL
The point I was trying to make earlier is that LSU had talent back in the 90s. No, not elite like they started having under Coach Saban, but the kind of talent that ought to have yielded 10 win seasons every so often back then, no losing seasons at all, and an SEC title or two along the way. But, their leadership (coaching) stunk. LSU has reverted to the mean. It's been a slow decline, but we're here now and you're about to see the results sink more rapidly to the cellar.
 

theballguy

Hall of Fame
Nov 5, 2012
6,268
1,083
187
Roll Tide Roll, Colorado USA
The article seems to be saying that LSU is a victim of just bad luck in that so many of their underclassmen have left early over the last few years. I think it's glossing over what the real issue is there, and probably intentionally since identifying the issue isn't necessarily the intent of the article.

I don't think LSU has had more talent than us over the last 5 years. Looking at some of the names of the LSU players that left early is puzzling. I just think the talent at LSU is much more willing to leave early for two reasons. Primarily, Alabama players are consistently playing for SEC and national titles and LSU players aren't, so what is the incentive to stay at LSU. Also, Alabama players are probably getting much more thorough and honest advice as to whether staying or leaving will improve their NFL prospects.
That and the only person who understood how to manage an early-exodus group at LSU was Les Miles. But he couldn't figure it out fully. The only ones who I think understand how to do that are Nick Saban and Urban Meyer.
 

BamaInBham

All-American
Feb 14, 2007
4,465
2,110
187
Y'all remember Curly Hallman and Gerry DiNardo don't you? I know I do. Never considered LSU anything more than a doormat growing up. Although new forces will step in to take their place, I'm happy to see them going back.
I can understand your view of LSU, since you refer to the 90s, but for us who have been around a few moments longer, LSU has been a big time program for a long time. They were probably Bama's greatest aid in gaining respect for the SEC in the 60s and 70s. And who can forget listening to the night games on WWL in the 60s and 70s when very few had them, Hap Glaudi, then Buddy D, the Cajun names and special games ? They helped give Bama a NC in '65 by beating undefeated, number 2 Ark in the Cotton, paving the way, along with UCLA's 14-12 win over num 1 Mich State in the Rose, for number 4 Bama to beat num 3 Neb the night in a glorious Orange Bowl. I consider them the number 2 program in SEC history, having passed UT in the 2000s.

According to College Football Data Warehouse's rankings, here is their (and my) all time number 9 LSU's rankings through the decades.

30s: 16
40s: 8
50s: 9
60s: 6
70s: 14
80s: 24
90s: 42
00s: 3

In 8 decades they had 7 top 25 finishes, 6 top 16, 4 top 10 - that's great consistency. They are second in the SEC to Bama in NCs with 3, 2nd in decades with an SEC title with 7, 2nd in major bowl victories, 2nd in major bowl appearances. Most of all, with all of their success, they have usually been a sweet big time win for Bama. It's hard to consider LSU a true blue blood, IMO there are only 7, maybe 8, but they are next in line. They are probably the most charismatic in a quirky, yet endearing way. Les Miles was the perfect fit.
 

KrAzY3

Hall of Fame
Jan 18, 2006
10,615
4,540
187
44
kraizy.art
The lesson learned from LSU is that you don't get rid of your successful coach until you have a quality replacement ready. Ask Texas, ask Tennessee. You run off a coach that has had success, you need to have the right guy lined up. Georgia had the right guy lined up, but even they took a risk. You run off a guy who sustained success and won a championship though, you are asking for trouble.
 

Bamabuzzard

FB Moderator
Staff member
Aug 15, 2004
30,559
18,312
237
48
Where ever there's BBQ, Bourbon & Football
Taking those figures and doing an overall average (total sum of ranked position divided by 8 decades) they rank 15th all time. They're historically a top 15 program. I'll agree with that.



I can understand your view of LSU, since you refer to the 90s, but for us who have been around a few moments longer, LSU has been a big time program for a long time. They were probably Bama's greatest aid in gaining respect for the SEC in the 60s and 70s. And who can forget listening to the night games on WWL in the 60s and 70s when very few had them, Hap Glaudi, then Buddy D, the Cajun names and special games ? They helped give Bama a NC in '65 by beating undefeated, number 2 Ark in the Cotton, paving the way, along with UCLA's 14-12 win over num 1 Mich State in the Rose, for number 4 Bama to beat num 3 Neb the night in a glorious Orange Bowl. I consider them the number 2 program in SEC history, having passed UT in the 2000s.

According to College Football Data Warehouse's rankings, here is their (and my) all time number 9 LSU's rankings through the decades.

30s: 16
40s: 8
50s: 9
60s: 6
70s: 14
80s: 24
90s: 42
00s: 3

In 8 decades they had 7 top 25 finishes, 6 top 16, 4 top 10 - that's great consistency. They are second in the SEC to Bama in NCs with 3, 2nd in decades with an SEC title with 7, 2nd in major bowl victories, 2nd in major bowl appearances. Most of all, with all of their success, they have usually been a sweet big time win for Bama. It's hard to consider LSU a true blue blood, IMO there are only 7, maybe 8, but they are next in line. They are probably the most charismatic in a quirky, yet endearing way. Les Miles was the perfect fit.
 

TideEngineer08

TideFans Legend
Jun 9, 2009
36,284
30,895
187
Beautiful Cullman, AL
Taking those figures and doing an overall average (total sum of ranked position divided by 8 decades) they rank 15th all time. They're historically a top 15 program. I'll agree with that.
I don't disagree either. They had leadership back then with Paul Deitzel and Charlie McClendon. What they have today is more in line with Hallman and DiNardo, IMO, and that's why I expect them to look more like the 90s than the 50s and 70s.
 

Bamabuzzard

FB Moderator
Staff member
Aug 15, 2004
30,559
18,312
237
48
Where ever there's BBQ, Bourbon & Football
I don't disagree either. They had leadership back then with Paul Deitzel and Charlie McClendon. What they have today is more in line with Hallman and DiNardo, IMO, and that's why I expect them to look more like the 90s than the 50s and 70s.
Yeah, with the moves they're making they are laying a foundation to relive the Denardo days for sure. They keep making stupid moves and they'll revisit the Hallman days.
 

BamaInBham

All-American
Feb 14, 2007
4,465
2,110
187
Taking those figures and doing an overall average (total sum of ranked position divided by 8 decades) they rank 15th all time. They're historically a top 15 program. I'll agree with that.
IMO, that's not how you determine one's place. If you were to average Bama's decade rankings, they would be number 11, but we know that Bama is number 1. In fact, no one is close to number 1 by averaging rankings. E.g., ND and USC would both be number at 9. I'm not saying that your conclusion that they are 15 is wrong, though I strongly disagree with that opinion, but that the logic to get there is not valid. LSU has as many top 10 decade finishes that Bama, 4-4. Anyway there are numerous problems with averaging rankings. LSU is only 4 spots behind Bama by that method. LSU's one awful decade at 42 would significantly distort its historical performance.
 

Pilot172000

1st Team
Sep 25, 2017
455
10
37
Winnsboro, LA
The talent pool is so deep in Louisiana and its a one school state. LSU has been one of the few to match on field talent with our on field talent, they just haven't had the coaching to beat us. I look at some of the guys up here in North LA that are at Bama and thank my lucky stars that LSU can't figure out who to hire.
 

Bamabuzzard

FB Moderator
Staff member
Aug 15, 2004
30,559
18,312
237
48
Where ever there's BBQ, Bourbon & Football
IMO, that's not how you determine one's place. If you were to average Bama's decade rankings, they would be number 11, but we know that Bama is number 1. In fact, no one is close to number 1 by averaging rankings. E.g., ND and USC would both be number at 9. I'm not saying that your conclusion that they are 15 is wrong, though I strongly disagree with that opinion, but that the logic to get there is not valid. LSU has as many top 10 decade finishes that Bama, 4-4. Anyway there are numerous problems with averaging rankings. LSU is only 4 spots behind Bama by that method. LSU's one awful decade at 42 would significantly distort its historical performance.
I'm taking an average of where LSU was ranked within the ranking system you are using to make your claim. So within the ranking system you are using they have an average ranking of #15.

Unfortunately the #42 ranking is a part of their history. It is a part of who they are. If you're going to take the good and use it to come to your conclusion you have to use the bad as well. No matter how much of an outlier it was and no matter how bad it was. It was who they were for a decade. That's a long dang time and a real part of their history as a football program.

I would also point out that those rankings and the value put into the individual criteria to come to said rankings is more than likely very subjective as well.
 

crimsonaudio

Administrator
Staff member
Sep 9, 2002
63,414
67,193
462
crimsonaudio.net
I suspect LSU will be fine, as I'm betting that a year from now their head coach will have the initials DA. And I think that's why he was retained for the amount he was - everyone who knows anything about CFB knows that Orgeron's days are numbered...
 

jabcmb

All-American
Feb 1, 2006
2,792
318
107
Birmingham, AL
I can understand your view of LSU, since you refer to the 90s, but for us who have been around a few moments longer, LSU has been a big time program for a long time. They were probably Bama's greatest aid in gaining respect for the SEC in the 60s and 70s. And who can forget listening to the night games on WWL in the 60s and 70s ...
Wow, memory lane. Not only those night games on 50,000 watt WWL but also the station’s broadcasts from the Blue Room (jazz club) at the Roosevelt Hotel. The hotel is still there and is branded Waldorf Astoria, but what they call the Blue Room is just another convention meeting space. To a kid in the woods north of Jasper, AL, listening to a radio in the dark, that broadcast was the most exotic thing I could imagine.
 

BamaInBham

All-American
Feb 14, 2007
4,465
2,110
187
I'm taking an average of where LSU was ranked within the ranking system you are using to make your claim. So within the ranking system you are using they have an average ranking of #15.

Unfortunately the #42 ranking is a part of their history. It is a part of who they are. If you're going to take the good and use it to come to your conclusion you have to use the bad as well. No matter how much of an outlier it was and no matter how bad it was. It was who they were for a decade. That's a long dang time and a real part of their history as a football program.

I would also point out that those rankings and the value put into the individual criteria to come to said rankings is more than likely very subjective as well.
You don't think Bama is number 11 do you ? Or that there is no program above number 9. That's what you have by averaging the rankings. LSU finishes just 4 spots behind Bama. IMO, that is invalid, as would be many conclusions drawn from that method.

I agree wholeheartedly that those rankings are subjective as are any other, including winning %. It's just a guess, which is why I said that your 15 ranking for LSU may be valid, but not from using that method.

The 42 is part of their history, but it distorts any 'averaging' method (which is why throwing out the high and low is often used in such cases). A program would go 1, 3, 42, 1 and be judged worse than a program that went 12, 9, 11, 14.
 

Latest threads

TideFans.shop : 2024 Madness!

TideFans.shop - Get YOUR Bama Gear HERE!”></a>
<br />

<!--/ END TideFans.shop & item link \-->
<p style= Purchases made through our TideFans.shop and Amazon.com links may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.