Will Saban be doing Hurts a disservice, letting him stay at QB? - Page 3
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  1. #27

    Re: Will Saban be doing Hurts a disservice? (regarding JH's future)

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeeterpop View Post
    I think coach sits him down and says. Here is the deal. I have pushed too far on the side of being conservative. We still want to protect the ball. But we have to have a QB that is aggressive and takes chances at the right times. He puts Jalen mentally on the same playing field as Tua who to be honest fears nothing right now. We all know that is too far to the other extreme. He has to become smarter with the ball. (i.e. Sack in OT, forced pass on run play, securing football when he runs, time management, etc.)

    This could get really interesting if Jalen is able to accept this change and become an aggressive passer.
    I hope coach does this, I really do, as I agree that JH can be a QB a lot like Tua. He doesn't appear to have there 'quick eyes' that Tua does, but he does have a strong arm.

    Aye bigger worry about this isn't whether JH can change, but rather will coach sit down with him and prod him to be more aggressive. Somehow I doubt this happens.
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  3. #28
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    Re: Will Saban be doing Hurts a disservice? (regarding JH's future)

    Hurts was very underdeveloped as a passer out of high school and frankly he may have had his development stunted further by being put on the field so early in college. He never got an opportunity to just focus on self-development because he was being asked to do what was necessary to win that week. I truly believe he just needs a redshirt year in one of the next two seasons to do just that w/r/t self-development.

    Honestly, he over-performed his projection as a passer out of high school but we're in a tier of competition where he needs to be able to execute at a high level against some of the absolute best to meet our realistic goals as a team.
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    Re: Will Saban be doing Hurts a disservice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redwood Forrest View Post
    The whole world knows how to beat a team with Jalen at QB and that is make him pass. If Jalen were to transfer he would face the same problem. If he goes to FIU or Arkansas then he will face stacked lines just like he does here.

    That being the case, I think it better if he stays here and has wildcat packages and that kind of thing. We don't need to forget it is not as if Jalen cannot pass. My own feeling is Bama would be really dangerous if Jalen played H Back and TE and such. He can run and pass and catch.

    Also there is this: We are assuming Jalen has no chance but Jalen had one interception all year (I think). Tua had one in one half. We know Jalen can play ball control O and I'm not sure Tua can because his instinct is to throw. So ball control may play a factor.
    Why not some packages where he is a runner -- who can throw? He's not a terrible passer -- just not a great one.
    ďI know what it takes to win. If I can sell them on what it takes to win, then we are not going to lose too many football games.Ē - Coach Paul Bryant and I can see Coach Nick Saban agreeing completely.

  5. #30
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    Re: Will Saban be doing Hurts a disservice? (regarding JH's future)

    I'm a Hurts fan. His demeanor...his soft spoken style...his ability to make plays with his legs. He's a winner. However, in my mind, the things that separate Tua are his read and release. Both are extremely fast. Tua's throwing motion and release (and accuracy) is almost impossible to defend against. It's that split second edge that give the receiver the advantage...
    I suspect that much of this is more a natural gift than a "coach-uppable" talent. (there's a good word..) Tua can learn ball security much easier than another QB, whomever it is, can learn this level of read and release. He also has a great knack for distributing the ball to ALL of his playmakers.

  6. #31
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    Re: Will Saban be doing Hurts a disservice? (regarding JH's future)

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeeterpop View Post
    This is pretty simple for Jalen. He got too protective and conservative with the football. This is a combination of his football IQ, Bama game plan and Saban demanding protect the ball. Think of about it. We just went through 14 games and the kid had 1 INT. On the surface that looks like an incredible number but in actuality its a very telling stat. He did not take enough chances. He did not try to make the big plays, even when tbe team needed one. This day an age, if Alabama is going to stay on top we need to be aggressive and challenge some teams. Not sell out to protect the ball at all cost.

    I think Jalen has it in him to be more aggressive and take chances. He just chose to protect the ball and force nothing. Thats what coach wanted. Unfortunately, its not like a light switch. You cant just turn that skill on and off when you want. Its a complete mindset and will take some time to force himself into the mindset of attacking a play and not just waiting for it to be perfect. We have watched all year Jalen see guys virtually open but he chose not to attempt the throw or you could see he was thinking too much. It's because he is too focused on not turning the ball over. If we are honest about this, Coach has to take this blame moreso than Jalen. Jalen was only doing exactly what Saban has preached for 10 years to every QB. Sure Jalen took it to the extreme. But hard fo argue with the teams success.

    I think coach sits him down and says. Here is the deal. I have pushed too far on the side of being conservative. We still want to protect the ball. But we have to have a QB that is aggressive and takes chances at the right times. He puts Jalen mentally on the same playing field as Tua who to be honest fears nothing right now. We all know that is too far to the other extreme. He has to become smarter with the ball. (i.e. Sack in OT, forced pass on run play, securing football when he runs, time management, etc.)

    This could get really interesting if Jalen is able to accept this change and become an aggressive passer.
    I don't see this as the issue. Against UGA, there were many, many cases where Jalen just didn't pull the trigger on a wide open, safe throw in the seam. These were NOT risky throws. Either jalen just didn't see it, or see it fast enough or have the arm speed to get it out - don't know. There were other cases where he had middle routes WIDE open and didn't throw. He missed a WIDE open Ridley by a MILE. It wasn't even close. He ran out of the pocket several times way before he should have. The OT's pushed their guys upfield and the OC ad OGs ad their guys stonewalled and Jalen still bailed. None of those things had anything to do with him being to risk averse - they would not have been forced throws. I'd bet NONE of those things are things the coaching staff have encouraged, and honestly I am very sure they've been the topic of the film room discussion to NOT do them. Now for all I know Jalen was still fighting the flu and was not close to 100% and that's the reason behind all the above, but we saw him start to trend that way late in the season also. Those are things that Jalen will have to improve on greatly to be able to compete in the biggest games against better defenses. With his competitive streak and work ethic, anything is possible and to the point of Saban trying to do be honest about Jalens future with him, I'm sure that will be a very honest discussion this offseason.

  7. #32
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    Re: Will Saban be doing Hurts a disservice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redwood Forrest View Post
    The whole world knows how to beat a team with Jalen at QB and that is make him pass. If Jalen were to transfer he would face the same problem. If he goes to FIU or Arkansas then he will face stacked lines just like he does here.

    That being the case, I think it better if he stays here and has wildcat packages and that kind of thing. We don't need to forget it is not as if Jalen cannot pass. My own feeling is Bama would be really dangerous if Jalen played H Back and TE and such. He can run and pass and catch.

    Also there is this: We are assuming Jalen has no chance but Jalen had one interception all year (I think). Tua had one in one half. We know Jalen can play ball control O and I'm not sure Tua can because his instinct is to throw. So ball control may play a factor.
    I agree that that is how you make Jalen struggle, but forcing Alabama to win by passing is easier said than done. That's why he's 27 and 2 as a starter. If he were to transfer, I'd bet Paul Johnson would be salivating to have him in his offense. GT would be a threat to win the ACC with him there.
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  8. #33
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    Re: Will Saban be doing Hurts a disservice? (regarding JH's future)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kpro View Post
    I am a strong believer that after the National Championship and because of Tuaís extraordinary performance the G.O.A.T will be doing Jalen a disservice by intriguing Jalen that there will be a Spring QB competition.

    I love Jalen to death but after the game itís clear that Tua caters to Dabollís playbook better and he will be the starter going into next season.

    I feel that Saban would be doing Jalen a disservice by telling him there will be a competition and he has a chance (Iím sure his mind is already set with what Tua potentially could do next year as the starter).

    Itís no secret, coaches often see the potential and ceiling of a player better than the player themself more often then not.

    IMO if Saban is all about trust, he should let Jalen know that if wants a shot at the NFL it wonít be at the QB position (itís clear after this season that Jalen hasnít improved significantly in the passing game... letís be honest and take the emotion out of it). Honestly, It would be greedy if he just drags and leads Jalen on... in the scenario that something were to happen to Tua (injury, etc.).

    I do not believe in a dual QB system (nor do I think Saban does)

    Do you agree? Once again, I am just trying to separate the emotion (how great of a guy Jalen is) and seeing how it really is...
    I think it will be up to Jalen. If he wants to go elsewhere so he can become an NFL QB, then I can't say I blame him. I would certainly wish him well and still be a big fan of him. It would not surprise me though one bit to see him stay.
    ďI know what it takes to win. If I can sell them on what it takes to win, then we are not going to lose too many football games.Ē - Coach Paul Bryant and I can see Coach Nick Saban agreeing completely.

  9. #34
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    Re: Will Saban be doing Hurts a disservice? (regarding JH's future)

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeeterpop View Post
    I think coach sits him down and says. Here is the deal. I have pushed too far on the side of being conservative. We still want to protect the ball. But we have to have a QB that is aggressive and takes chances at the right times. He puts Jalen mentally on the same playing field as Tua who to be honest fears nothing right now. We all know that is too far to the other extreme. He has to become smarter with the ball. (i.e. Sack in OT, forced pass on run play, securing football when he runs, time management, etc.)

    This could get really interesting if Jalen is able to accept this change and become an aggressive passer.
    I'm sure most will disagree, but I don't think the issues with Jalen is him being too conservative minded. I think the problem is he doesn't process and dissect the defense fast enough. This has absolutely nothing to do with intellect. But simply how the brain is wired to process information. I've heard it all year from former NFL and college quarterbacks when either calling our games or giving an analysis of Jalen's game. They all are basically saying the same thing. Whether it's Gary Danielson, Todd Blackledge, Herbie, McElroy or Jordan Rodgers. Jalen isn't mentally processing information fast enough to get the ball not only out on time but to the right receiver.

    And here's the big question, can Jalen improve his ability to process information at a faster speed? This isn't like fixing a mechanical throwing flaw, or bad footwork. This is dealing with how someone's brain is naturally wired to work. Again, (so this won't be taken the wrong way), it has absolutely nothing to do with a person's intellect. My wife and I watched the second half of the game again last night. I encourage people who haven't watched it more than once to go back and pay close attention to how fast Tua goes through his reads, stays in the pocket, keeps his eyes down field and gets the ball out. Here's something else that is huge in the success of our offense with Tua behind center. How quick the ball comes out of Tua's hands when he decides to throw and how long the ball stays in the air once it leaves his hand. Tue's release is lightning fast and the ball doesn't stay in the air long. These two things alone put defenses at HUGE disadvantages. Where as Hurts release is slower and his ball stays in the air longer. I'm not trying to pile on Jalen, but simply pointing out that for him to have a real chance at competing and winning the position back. He's going to have to fix more than just having a conservative mindset.
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  10. #35

    Re: Will Saban be doing Hurts a disservice? (regarding JH's future)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamabuzzard View Post
    I'm sure most will disagree, but I don't think the issues with Jalen is him being too conservative minded. I think the problem is he doesn't process and dissect the defense fast enough. This has absolutely nothing to do with intellect. But simply how the brain is wired to process information. I've heard it all year from former NFL and college quarterbacks when either calling our games or giving an analysis of Jalen's game. They all are basically saying the same thing. Whether it's Gary Danielson, Todd Blackledge, Herbie, McElroy or Jordan Rodgers. Jalen isn't mentally processing information fast enough to get the ball not only out on time but to the right receiver.
    I've been saying this for some time now, but I think we have to balance that with what a coach is telling him to do - if you read that someone is open, but then you have to calculate whether or not he's open 'enough' or you have to think about whether or not you should throw it, it will make you more sluggish wrt making decisions than you really are.

    I mean, he looks more inhibited this season than last year, and I doubt it's due to the complexity of the offense.

    I think it's obvious that Tua has 'quicker eyes' (reads through his progressions more rapidly) and I'm not sure that JH can do it quickly as TT does no matter what - few can, imo - but if JH is feeling pressure to not make mistakes to the point it's affecting his play, one area we'll see that manifest itself is in his decision-making. He needs to stop thinking and react to what he sees, and that only happens if CNS and CO unleash him.

    Only then will we truly know what he's capable of. Last year he was a FR and was kept under tight-ish reigns, this year he seems even more risk-averse - I don't think that's all on JH...
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  11. #36
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    Re: Will Saban be doing Hurts a disservice? (regarding JH's future)

    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonSEC View Post
    I agree that that is how you make Jalen struggle, but forcing Alabama to win by passing is easier said than done. That's why he's 27 and 2 as a starter. If he were to transfer, I'd bet Paul Johnson would be salivating to have him in his offense. GT would be a threat to win the ACC with him there.
    There are 129 FBS teams. I think all but about 10 of them would love to have Jalen as a starter.

  12. #37
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    Re: Will Saban be doing Hurts a disservice? (regarding JH's future)

    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonaudio View Post
    I've been saying this for some time now, but I think we have to balance that with what a coach is telling him to do - if you read that someone is open, but then you have to calculate whether or not he's open 'enough' or you have to think about whether or not you should throw it, it will make you more sluggish wrt making decisions than you really are.

    I mean, he looks more inhibited this season than last year, and I doubt it's due to the complexity of the offense.

    I think it's obvious that Tua has 'quicker eyes' (reads through his progressions more rapidly) and I'm not sure that JH can do it quickly as TT does no matter what - few can, imo - but if JH is feeling pressure to not make mistakes to the point it's affecting his play, one area we'll see that manifest itself is in his decision-making. He needs to stop thinking and react to what he sees, and that only happens if CNS and CO unleash him.

    Only then will we truly know what he's capable of. Last year he was a FR and was kept under tight-ish reigns, this year he seems even more risk-averse - I don't think that's all on JH...
    yeah, just a guess, but i have thought all season that we were so depleted on d that we got risk averse on o.
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  13. #38
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    Re: Will Saban be doing Hurts a disservice? (regarding JH's future)

    I use the example of Brett Farve. His IQ is obviously not enormous but he could sure process information. I believe his is quoted as saying the only time he feels smart is on the football field and when he is with his family.

  14. #39

    Re: Will Saban be doing Hurts a disservice? (regarding JH's future)

    Quote Originally Posted by uafanataum View Post
    There are 129 FBS teams. I think all but about 10 of them would love to have Jalen as a starter.
    I'll take him as starter. I think it only takes a little bit of tweaking for him to be beastly.
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