Will Saban be doing Hurts a disservice, letting him stay at QB?

M2J

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Re: Will Saban be doing Hurts a disservice?

A lot being said regarding Jalen's shortcoming, mostly true if not all. Only thing I disagree with is the unrealistic nature of a talented guy like him not developing from where he is as a true sophomore. I mean a guy like AJ McCarron didn't start until he was in the offense for 3 years. Then you hear about his passing compared to guys that didn't play until they were 5th year seniors in Coker or Sims.

Jalen will get better. Just depends on if it's here or elsewhere. Plenty QBs have been told they don't have the skills to be a NFL QB at his age, and are there or will be. Lamar Jackson for one.
 
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bamadrew95

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In answer to the question of the OP. I don’t think Saban’s primary thought in this is Jalens NFL future. Sabans thoughts are for how he can help this team win #18 next year. Having a backup quarterback with a 25-2 record as a starter is really really good insurance for next year. Of course Saban is going to want Jalen to come back and as he always does he’ll say that there will be opportunity to earn playing time. He says this regularly to incoming players and media.
Sabans decision is about what’s best for the team, not an individual, as it should be.
The decision on Jalens future whether at QB or another position is his to make - again, as it should be.
 

BamaMoon

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I disagree that Jalen would not get ANY better. He would not get past Tua as a passing QB, though. I share the belief he would not improve enough to be NFL caliber as a QB.

Simply put, Tua gives Alabama the best opportunity moving forward. At the beginning of this year and well into the season Jalen afforded Alabama the best opportunity to win.

As the season progressed later on it became apparent Jalen was not making the progress we hoped he would as a passer.

It was apparent immediately that Tua had the arm talent to take the job. The concern, for me, was always about "getting it" mentally. Not in the sense he couldn't learn, but that putting him in too early would put him in bad situations and stunt his growth.

You always want your QB to be "ready" before putting him in. Monday was "ready or not" time. There was no other choice but to lose the game handily.

Jalen is a heck of a man and competitor. It has to hurt being beat out by another. It is what it is.
I agree that Jalen can improve too. His ceiling is lower than Tua's, but he can improve. As a matter of fact, if Tua starts it may allow Jalen to actually improve in practice without the pressure of avoiding TOs.

And there's no denying Tua's arm talent and pocket presence. I think Jalen would be in a position as a backup to really learn from Tua's skills and improve without the pressure of not failing that believe he was having to bear.
 
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Pilot172000

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I think Tua is an amazing QB and the Future at Bama but there are a few things that I have been thinking about.
1. Jalen is 26-2 as a starter and Tua has never won a game as a starter.
2. Tua has more Ints this year than Jalen did
3. Look at the trend we have created of QBs that have walked out the door the last three years and were they are now.

I think Jalen should stay and contribute any way he can because the reality is he has a coaching future but not an NFL one. He is an honorable man and I would root for him wherever he would land.
 

GrayTide

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In answer to the question of the OP. I don’t think Saban’s primary thought in this is Jalens NFL future. Sabans thoughts are for how he can help this team win #18 next year. Having a backup quarterback with a 25-2 record as a starter is really really good insurance for next year. Of course Saban is going to want Jalen to come back and as he always does he’ll say that there will be opportunity to earn playing time. He says this regularly to incoming players and media.
Sabans decision is about what’s best for the team, not an individual, as it should be.
The decision on Jalens future whether at QB or another position is his to make - again, as it should be.
I think there is a lot of truth in this. Most freshman QBs do not start for obvious reasons. They are given a year to adjust to the college game and improve fundamentals. Hurts did not have this luxury, he was thrown into the fire and while he played well did not improve this year in areas he might could have had he been redshirted. Could he have benefited from a redshirt year, that is something we will never know. As drew95 said the situation facing Hurts was the decision by CNS and he will have to handle whatever fallout might occur.
 

AlexanderFan

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In answer to the question of the OP. I don’t think Saban’s primary thought in this is Jalens NFL future. Sabans thoughts are for how he can help this team win #18 next year. Having a backup quarterback with a 25-2 record as a starter is really really good insurance for next year. Of course Saban is going to want Jalen to come back and as he always does he’ll say that there will be opportunity to earn playing time. He says this regularly to incoming players and media.
Sabans decision is about what’s best for the team, not an individual, as it should be.
The decision on Jalens future whether at QB or another position is his to make - again, as it should be.
Saban encourages Juniors with a high draft grade to leave early, how exactly is that what's best for the team?


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cbi1972

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Saban encourages Juniors with a high draft grade to leave early, how exactly is that what's best for the team?
I'd say that having a reputation for honest dealing with players is something that is appreciated by everyone involved, including incoming recruits, especially those that are good enough to be leaving early, not to mention the prospect of early playing time that 3-year players afford.
 

Bama9001

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Wonder if Jalen would benefit from more 'live' practice time and less black jersey time. He must look pretty awesome when practicing in the black jersey. Maybe he could build more pocket presence in practice by having a live pocket.
 

Isaiah 63:1

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Saban encourages Juniors with a high draft grade to leave early, how exactly is that what's best for the team?


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Dean Smith’s mantra was (and I’m paraphrasing), “Everything in season for the team; everything out of season for the individual.” I’d be unsurprised if Saban had a similar philosophy...


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4Q Basket Case

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Saban encourages Juniors with a high draft grade to leave early, how exactly is that what's best for the team?


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In the extremely short view, it isn't what's best for the team.

Problem is, that's taking a short term view of a long-term issue.

If Saban persuades a junior 1st round pick to stay, how long do you think it would take before HS recruits became aware of his disingenuousness?

One class.....if that?

After which, all those bridges are forever burned. After which, the quality of recruiting drops off a cliff.

My experience is that, not just in football, taking the long view of personnel development pays huge dividends.

Yes, you will have to deal with turnover. But because elite performers want to be developed, they will seek you out. So the turnover is of highly talented team members, as opposed to tenured schmoes.

Of course, another option is to choose low turnover of lesser players.

I just remember when we didn't have guys drafted at all, let alone drafted early, and see things differently.
 
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TIDE-HSV

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I'd say that having a reputation for honest dealing with players is something that is appreciated by everyone involved, including incoming recruits, especially those that are good enough to be leaving early, not to mention the prospect of early playing time that 3-year players afford.
Correct. That is the deal he makes with the parents...
 

BadgerTidefan

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Re: Will Saban be doing Hurts a disservice?

I haven't read the whole thread so this may have been mentioned. If Jalen starts as QB next year first game and isn't very much improved in his passing game (much more than he is probably capable of) I would expect a major fan revolt. Everyone is now aware of the level of play Tua is capable of, seeing Jalen come out and play near the same level he's been playing would just seem unacceptable. Coach Saban would certainly be criticized in the media too.
 

Ole Man Dan

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Re: Will Saban be doing Hurts a disservice?

I really like Jalen and... It sounds bad to say it but... His time is past.
Everyone knows how to Defense Jalen. Make him pass, Run, or Throw it away.
Teams with good Defenses are putting 8 in the box, and when they pressure Jalen, he's off his game. IMO: Tua has a much higher up side than Jalen in Daboll's Pro Style Offense.

Would Jalen stay in a subbornant role? Likely to leave for playing time.
He could find teams designed for Jalen's abilities, and they will not play against the tough teams that Alabama does. I'm not encouraging Jalen to transfer, because one bad hit and Tua could be out. It's just that our Offense is not designed for Jalen's talents, as much as they are for Tua's.
 

AlexanderFan

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In the extremely short view, it isn't what's best for the team.

Problem is, that's taking a short term view of a long-term issue.

If Saban persuades a junior 1st round pick to stay, how long do you think it would take before HS recruits became aware of his disingenuousness?

One class.....if that?

After which, all those bridges are forever burned. After which, the quality of recruiting drops off a cliff.

My experience is that, not just in football, taking the long view of personnel development pays huge dividends.

Yes, you will have to deal with turnover. But because elite performers want to be developed, they will seek you out. So the turnover is of highly talented team members, as opposed to tenured schmoes.

Of course, another option is to choose low turnover of lesser players.

I just remember when we didn't have guys drafted at all, let alone drafted early, and see things differently.
The post I was quoting made it sound like being for the team and being for the individual were mutually exclusive events, when in reality they are inseperable.


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AlexanderFan

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I think Tua is an amazing QB and the Future at Bama but there are a few things that I have been thinking about.
1. Jalen is 26-2 as a starter and Tua has never won a game as a starter.
2. Tua has more Ints this year than Jalen did
3. Look at the trend we have created of QBs that have walked out the door the last three years and were they are now.

I think Jalen should stay and contribute any way he can because the reality is he has a coaching future but not an NFL one. He is an honorable man and I would root for him wherever he would land.
1. Tua has never started a game. Tua has also never left Jalen in a 13-0 hole with only two quarters to catch up.
2. If you don't throw the ball you won't throw interceptions. You also won't make first downs or score points. Tua's touchdowns per passes thrown was considerably higher than Jalen's.


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crimsonaudio

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Re: Will Saban be doing Hurts a disservice? (regarding JH's future)

CA, I believe this is a bit overstated. GMAC, AJ, Blake, even Coker in the last third of the season ... we consistently took shots downfield. Saban has said time and time again that he wants explosive plays.
Of course, but that's not what I mean. I'm saying his generally conservative nature influences the players, in this case the QB, and might be having the effect of making them gun shy. He does treat turnovers like it's the end of the world, and his attitude has a direct impact on the players and how they view plays.

I believe Saban's overall attitude is why we've seen JH play more gun-shy this year than last. Hopefully my assertion is wrong - because if I'm not, I'm not sure how we don't see Tua's innate ability squashed.
 

TIDE-HSV

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Re: Will Saban be doing Hurts a disservice? (regarding JH's future)

Of course, but that's not what I mean. I'm saying his generally conservative nature influences the players, in this case the QB, and might be having the effect of making them gun shy. He does treat turnovers like it's the end of the world, and his attitude has a direct impact on the players and how they view plays.

I believe Saban's overall attitude is why we've seen JH play more gun-shy this year than last. Hopefully my assertion is wrong - because if I'm not, I'm not sure how we don't see Tua's innate ability squashed.
TBF, that's a fear I've had. I've wondered what happens when Tua throws two INTs in a row...
 

dvldog

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Jalen definitely looked looser the first half of the season when passing. As the season went on pressure and better opponents made him seem more hesitant and less accurate. He may have been looking over his shoulder a little also


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bamacon

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Re: Will Saban be doing Hurts a disservice? (regarding JH's future)

I'm sure most will disagree, but I don't think the issues with Jalen is him being too conservative minded. I think the problem is he doesn't process and dissect the defense fast enough. This has absolutely nothing to do with intellect. But simply how the brain is wired to process information. I've heard it all year from former NFL and college quarterbacks when either calling our games or giving an analysis of Jalen's game. They all are basically saying the same thing. Whether it's Gary Danielson, Todd Blackledge, Herbie, McElroy or Jordan Rodgers. Jalen isn't mentally processing information fast enough to get the ball not only out on time but to the right receiver.

And here's the big question, can Jalen improve his ability to process information at a faster speed? This isn't like fixing a mechanical throwing flaw, or bad footwork. This is dealing with how someone's brain is naturally wired to work. Again, (so this won't be taken the wrong way), it has absolutely nothing to do with a person's intellect. My wife and I watched the second half of the game again last night. I encourage people who haven't watched it more than once to go back and pay close attention to how fast Tua goes through his reads, stays in the pocket, keeps his eyes down field and gets the ball out. Here's something else that is huge in the success of our offense with Tua behind center. How quick the ball comes out of Tua's hands when he decides to throw and how long the ball stays in the air once it leaves his hand. Tue's release is lightning fast and the ball doesn't stay in the air long. These two things alone put defenses at HUGE disadvantages. Where as Hurts release is slower and his ball stays in the air longer. I'm not trying to pile on Jalen, but simply pointing out that for him to have a real chance at competing and winning the position back. He's going to have to fix more than just having a conservative mindset.
It’s like pulling out into traffic as a young driver. If you have to think about it “DON’T!!!” It’s too late. Passing against elite defensive players is much the same way. Like you said You see it and throw. If you have to think [emoji848] about it it’s too late.


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bamacon

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Re: Will Saban be doing Hurts a disservice? (regarding JH's future)

Is it any wonder poor Jalen became so gun shy? There's a whole culture preceding Saban of treating interceptions as the cardinal sin in Tuscaloosa. Throw in Saban's obsession with it and it's just too much. Jalen had the look of a man who had the weight of the world lifted off his shoulders in the second half.


I hope Saban doesn't try to neuter Tua. It's the confidence in his arm and fearless nature to let it rip and trust his receivers that saved Saban's butt and got him #6. I loved it when Tua had his arm around Saban consoling him after that interception. It may be that Saban has more to learn from Tua than vice versa. Ponder that one!!!!
It was almost like McCarron having popped CNS on the rear. You could read his lips saying “That was my fault and I got this!”

When I saw that I knew Tua would stay in. Coach was going to win or lose the 2nd half with Tua.


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