A tipped ball negates pi if the pi takes place afterwardsMy point was I have seen receivers mugged before and PI is called and then the flag is picked up because the ball was tipped before it got to the eligible receiver.
A tipped ball negates pi if the pi takes place afterwardsMy point was I have seen receivers mugged before and PI is called and then the flag is picked up because the ball was tipped before it got to the eligible receiver.
I'll try reposting. Rather than embedding, I'll just post it as a clickable link...So we're to believe the official didn't throw the flag on a clear DPI because someone stepped in front of the intended WR and made the catch?
Earle, I can see all pictures except post 2 as well. Not sure what the problem is.
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Depends on when the contact is made. Interference ends when the ball is touched, but DPI is supposed to be enforced if the DPI occurs before the ball is touched.My point was I have seen receivers mugged before and PI is called and then the flag is picked up because the ball was tipped before it got to the eligible receiver.
That is an incredibly illuminating answer.I'm an NCAA football official
Once the play is over and #3 in white caught the touchdown, obviously Georgia gained no advantage by interfering with #22 in white, but the flag should still have been thrown and Alabama given the choice. (Who knows, maybe they would waive the touchdown and take the ball 1st and goal on the 2, so they could running more time off the clock?)Defensive pass interference is contact beyond the neutral zone by a Team B player whose intent to impede an eligible opponent is obvious and could prevent the opponent the opportunity of receiving a catchable forward pass.
Well, one would hope.Completely irrelevant. We see penalties called all the time that have nothing to do with the play’s final result, but they’re still penalties. You see a penalty, you call it, period.
Great point.A tipped ball negates pi if the pi takes place afterwards
This should not be the goal of an official. The goal of an official should be to throw a flag when a penalty occurs.Then that contact had no impact on the play. If the pass is gong to a different receiver, unless it's a personal foul it's nothing.
Most fouls fall into one of three categories:
Procedural (offsides, illegal formation, delay of game)
Advantage/disadvantage (holding, pass interference, block in the back)
Safety (clipping, block below the waste, chop block)
Safety fouls should be called any time they happen. Procedural fouls should have a higher threshold to be called late in blowout games (don't get too technical). Advantage/disadvantage fouls generally have the most judgment involved and most have additional philosophies/tools that help to reduce the gray area and provide consistency.
The ultimate goal of an official is no flags on a game. I've never had a game as a crew with no flags, but I've had done with none. I'm an umpire so there's usually something procedural at least I have to flag. I only average 4-5 holding fouls in the course of the season (9-12 games) and I had 1 season with only 2 (and one I didn't like on video).
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This is what worries me about your replies. This is not really a hypothetical; it happens. An OL holds 10 out of 12 plays. Each time happens behind the play, so, taking your philosophy, no harm, no foul. This encourages the flouting of the rules, since there's no punishment. The other thing I don't like about your philosophy is that you're overylaying the written rules with your own subjective judgement on every play. As a lawyer, that tells me that the rules don't really mean a damned thing. Is it any wonder that the officials receive the criticism that they do?But the pass never got to him because it was caught by someone else before it got there so no foul. What advantage did Georgia gain on this play with this contact?
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Also, why are so many officials not following your philosophy? I've seen plenty of flags thrown behind the play. Is that subjective judgement also? So, the flagged team deserved punishment for some reason? I'm not sure you can really understand the conundrums your approach causes. I hope all officials didn't go to your officials' clinics. If so, we're in more trouble than I thought...This is what worries me about your replies. This is not really a hypothetical; it happens. An OL holds 10 out of 12 plays. Each time happens behind the play, so, taking your philosophy, no harm, no foul. This encourages the flouting of the rules, since there's no punishment. The other thing I don't like about your philosophy is that you're overylaying the written rules with your own subjective judgement on every play. As a lawyer, that tells me that the rules don't really mean a damned thing. Is it any wonder that the officials receive the criticism that they do?
Oh, the irony...vBulletin Message
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Should be a combination of things. Re-education (work on the fundamentals), certification / testing, and closely monitoring the performance. And finally (and most importantly) - thinning of the herd. Get rid of the refs who have the most egregious record of missing calls, getting the wrong calls, and/or poor judgement.Earle, I believe that officiating is getting worse across all conferences. It seems to worsen from year to year. I don't know what the answer is, maybe some type of continuing education and maybe a 5-year recertification.
I feel your pain. Two things I can think of as possible maybes are, these plays that span the field may be too much to ask for the refs to make the judgement call whether it affects the play and, more likely, a play like a block in the back has an element of safety concerns.If indeed penalties called are determined upon whether the infraction gave the offending team an advantage or disadvantage, rather than committing an actual penalty, then why are 80% Of blocks in the back called? I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been frustrated when a huge gain gets called back because of a block thrown well behind the ball carrier, that had no chance of impacting the play.