Bama Coordinator Search Thread

B1GTide · Jan 21, 2018

TIDE-HSV said:
To me, this was the failure of the Daboll/Hurts partnership. I wonder if Daboll ever coached TEs at NE with anyone other than Brady at QB? In college, you have them 4, maybe just 3, years. That means that an OC must be able to adjust the offense to the strengths of the player. The problem with Jalen was that his strengths could be taken away by packing the box, since he only responded to the opened up field with accurate downfield passes. Also, Daboll didn't build in the horizontal plays which Kiffin used to accommodate Jalen. Finally, Jalen is just too risk-averse to pull the trigger...

Agree with this. Daboll seemed to want nothing to do with the horizontal game implemented by Kiffin to spread out and slow down the defense. He assumed that Jalen would improve as a passer (and he did), but when Jalen decision making process remained too slow, Daboll failed to adapt the offense to Jalen. I understand why it started out that way. I don't understand how it stayed that way after the Auburn game. 4+ weeks to get the offense ready for the playoffs and nothing changed.

Thank goodness for Tua's ability to run Daboll's offense because Jalen couldn't and Daboll was lost at that point.

All that said, next season's offense could have been epic with Tua running Daboll's offense for an entire season.

rgw · Jan 21, 2018

Tua has such a natural arm and understanding of scheme and defensive coverages that he'd flourish in just about any offense other than the triple option schemes. The magnitude that he could dominate the game is kinda dictated by scheme though.

Bamabuzzard · Jan 21, 2018

rgw said:
Relationships rarely fail due to one side but it truly did come down to our run game and pass game not really being coherent. We called an offense in 2017 that accentuated Hurts' weaknesses and mitigated his strengths.

What would the offense look like if we would have catered it to Jalen's strengths and how hard would it be for defenses to stop it? IMO, an offense designed around Jalen's strengths is not far away from being a one dimensional offense and it wouldn't take long before defenses adjusted and we'd end up back where we were when we were in the first half of the championship game. To be successful against the better defenses in this conference and in the championship format. Having a quarterback who can accurately throw downfield is a must. As soon as a defense realizes you can't throw beyond your primary first read AND you can't accurately throw beyond 15-20 yards. They are going to stack the box, put one on one's to the outside and take away the running game.

UAH · Jan 21, 2018

TIDE-HSV said:
To me, this was the failure of the Daboll/Hurts partnership. I wonder if Daboll ever coached TEs at NE with anyone other than Brady at QB? In college, you have them 4, maybe just 3, years. That means that an OC must be able to adjust the offense to the strengths of the player. The problem with Jalen was that his strengths could be taken away by packing the box, since he only responded to the opened up field with accurate downfield passes. Also, Daboll didn't build in the horizontal plays which Kiffin used to accommodate Jalen. Finally, Jalen is just too risk-averse to pull the trigger...

I agree if you add to that the tendency to place a spy on Jalen on specific down and distance it ultimately forced a running QB into a passing QB and as you say for whatever reason JH could not pull the trigger.

In terms of horizontal plays I recall JH being inaccurate and lacking touch on his throws and when we ran to the outside with Bo the LB's could run him down.

So when a defense is able to stop the run period (As Bama has at times) and the QB cannot hit throws from the pocket or on the run it becomes a very mediocre offense similar to Danny Etling vs Bama in 2016.

I am by no means a Daboll backer but believe he was presented a nearly unsolvable problem.

B1GTide · Jan 21, 2018

Bamabuzzard said:
What would the offense look like if we would have catered it to Jalen's strengths and how hard would it be for defenses to stop it?

See your 2016 offense. And Jalen was an improved passer this year. Not saying that it would have been easy, but someone like Kiffin would have made adjustments to the 2016 offense and it would have looked much different than Daboll's offense which didn't even try.

TitleWave · Jan 21, 2018

You've just gone retro with CFB defenses catching up to the wishbone 35 years ago. The template for stopping it then overlays almost perfectly with the Dabollizing dead end of Hurts' career as 'Bama's starting QB.

Bamabuzzard said:
What would the offense look like if we would have catered it to Jalen's strengths and how hard would it be for defenses to stop it? IMO, an offense designed around Jalen's strengths is not far away from being a one dimensional offense and it wouldn't take long before defenses adjusted and we'd end up back where we were when we were in the first half of the championship game. To be successful against the better defenses in this conference and in the championship format. Having a quarterback who can accurately throw downfield is a must. As soon as a defense realizes you can't throw beyond your primary first read AND you can't accurately throw beyond 15-20 yards. They are going to stack the box, put one on one's to the outside and take away the running game.

Ole Man Dan · Jan 21, 2018

CoolBreeze said:
this is Al.com quoting ESPN:

http://www.al.com/alabamafootball/i...sley_offensive_coordi.html#incart_river_index

Gone... Now we replace him with a new improved model...

Ole Man Dan · Jan 21, 2018

TiderJ said:
Alabama's.

Took the word right out of my mouth.

Our OC will run the ALABAMA/Saban offense
Our DC will run the Saban Defense

Hope our new STC has a great plan... Part of our old plan was hardly functional.

rgw · Jan 21, 2018

I think it really does hinge on the fact that we didn't do a great job of making the defense mind the whole field. Our passing offense became 15+ yard route focused under Daboll. Basically, you had to mind the box and the deep outside throws...and that was it. Is that partly due to the fact that Hurts had no confidence in consistently hitting quick hitters over the middle? You bet, but it is the OCs job to adjust to what his talent can execute not the other way around.

The stuff we did with the TE/H-B/WR/RBs out of the backfield last year helped keep the defense wide which enhanced our ability to run and get wide open men deep. Sark abandoned this stuff in the CFPCG and Daboll continued that trend.

RTR91 · Jan 21, 2018

rgw said:
I think it really does hinge on the fact that we didn't do a great job of making the defense mind the whole field. Our passing offense became 15+ yard route focused under Daboll. Basically, you had to mind the box and the deep outside throws...and that was it. Is that partly due to the fact that Hurts had no confidence in consistently hitting quick hitters over the middle? You bet, but it is the OCs job to adjust to what his talent can execute not the other way around.

The stuff we did with the TE/H-B/WR/RBs out of the backfield last year helped keep the defense wide which enhanced our ability to run and get wide open men deep. Sark abandoned this stuff in the CFPCG and Daboll continued that trend.

I believe part of that was because of Jacobs' injuries throughout the year. Daboll wanted to use Jacobs in that role. He was too injured most of the season. Bo never did well this year with the swing passes. We saw Najee get a couple (one was on the final drive in regulation against UGA) and do well.

rgw · Jan 21, 2018

Ole Man Dan said:
Took the word right out of my mouth.

Our OC will run the ALABAMA/Saban offense
Our DC will run the Saban Defense

Hope our new STC has a great plan... Part of our old plan was hardly functional.

I think our coverage/return plans were solid the last two seasons. Our specialists were very inconsistent in 2016 and 2017. Scott even seemed to lose his normal stoic workmanlike approach at times this past season. He had more poorly executed kicks in 2017 than his previous three seasons. I hope we can get a little more out of returns and coverage but get A LOT more out of our specialists.

rgw · Jan 21, 2018

RTR91 said:
I believe part of that was because of Jacobs' injuries throughout the year. Daboll wanted to use Jacobs in that role. He was too injured most of the season. Bo never did well this year with the swing passes. We saw Najee get a couple (one was on the final drive in regulation against UGA) and do well.

Abandoned the sweep action for long stretches of the season too. In 2016 we may have used it to a fault but in 2017 we didn't use it the minimal number of times to make opponents respect it.

BamaMoon · Jan 21, 2018

If after the Kiffen/Sark show CNS wanted a spread/horizontal guy why did he hire Daboll? Surely CNS and Daboll had a converstation about the style of the offensive plays he'd run. I kinda feel like Daboll is getting thrown under the bus.

Daboll had a vision for the offense and JH couldn't run it. CNS is the HC so why didn't CNS intervene??? Why didn't he allow Lockley a chance to call plays if he felt like Daboll's plan was not good.

It's not Daboll's fault CNS recruited Tua and Daboll had the perfect type of QB to run his offense.

In the end it doesn't matter because the goal of winning the NC was realized.

B1GTide · Jan 21, 2018

BamaMoon said:
If after the Kiffen/Sark show CNS wanted a spread/horizontal guy why did he hire Daboll? Surely CNS and Daboll had a converstation about the style of the offensive plays he'd run. I kinda feel like Daboll is getting thrown under the bus.

Daboll had a vision for the offense and JH couldn't run it. CNS is the HC so why didn't CNS intervene??? Why didn't he allow Lockley a chance to call plays if he felt like Daboll's plan was not good.

It's not Daboll's fault CNS recruited Tua and Daboll had the perfect type of QB to run his offense.

In the end it doesn't matter because the goal of winning the NC was realized.

Every college coach says the same thing - in college, you adjust your play calling to maximize the ability of your players. That's all that anyone is saying - Daboll did not do this. Maybe Saban wanted the kind of offense that he saw in the second half of the GA game. Makes sense. But do you think that Saban would have argued with Daboll if he had approached him with a package of plays that helped Jalen when it became clear that he couldn't run his standard offense?

Pure conjecture here, but this is how I believe it might have played out:

Daboll brings his play book and begins to install it.
After a while it becomes clear that Jalen can only run a small portion of those plays.
Daboll pushes Saban to let Tua start.
Saban trusts Jalen to get the job done and let's Daboll know that Jalen is the guy.
Daboll now has direction - what does he do with it?
Answer - nothing. He made no changes, expecting Jalen (and the team) to sink or swim running his plays.

No blame there. Saban could have switched QBs earlier. Daboll could have adapted his offense to Jalen. Neither happened.

Just be thankful that it worked out.

rgw · Jan 21, 2018

I think it is telling Daboll skipped town after one year. Frankly, I think he was told to look for opportunities but the word that leaks out is not going to railroad him because he's a part of the Belichick-Saban tree. Saban really doesn't want to ruin his assistant coaches. Notice how he has never fired a coach. They've always had a soft landing in another job.

BamaMoon · Jan 21, 2018

I think Buzzard ask earlier, but exactly what kind of offense best fits Jalen?

I know what Kiffen did and a bunch of Hurts yards off passing came from that little forward pitch that counted as a pass, but when we got to the meat of our schedule last year against Washington and Clemson we couldn't sustain drives and keep our defense off the field.

The point is, a successful offense at the highest levels has got to have some downfield passing threat.

SkullDuckery · Jan 21, 2018

rgw said:
Abandoned the sweep action for long stretches of the season too. In 2016 we may have used it to a fault but in 2017 we didn't use it the minimal number of times to make opponents respect it.

Jalen is partly to blame on the swing pass, his windup is too slow. Tau fires that ball out where the tb turns up full speed and the ball is perfectly placed.

rgw · Jan 21, 2018

We used that swing screen to great affect in 2016. I don't think Jalen was too slow on the wide throws a season ago. We just didn't call the stuff that much.

B1GTide · Jan 21, 2018

BamaMoon said:
I think Buzzard ask earlier, but exactly what kind of offense best fits Jalen?

It was answered - the one designed by Kiffin. Honestly, while this year's offense was better statistically than last year's offense, that can be attributed to 2 things - Tua killing teams when he was on the field (no drop-off in scoring at all with #2 team on the field), and lesser competition. Alabama's schedule in 2016 was much, much more difficult than the one it faced this year - probably the most difficult schedule ever faced by a college team.

Kiffin is a jerk who deserved to move on down the road, but he has the best offensive mind in the sport.

rgw · Jan 21, 2018

He only turned FAU into an offensive dynamo with a turnaround from 3-9 to 11-3.

Kiffin was the best offensive mind Alabama has had since Homer Smith. Daboll's approach to offense was really underwhelming. Jalen Hurts has his weaknesses but this guy managed to maximize the pains of our QB's weaknesses and never truly exploited his strengths with any consistency.

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