Daboll frustrated - Wanted to start Tua in November

Mystical

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I will say I didn't mind Coach chewing out Kiffin but Daboll seemed way more mature. The man has 5 kids so you know he didn't like being dressed down like that. Coach Saban's style obviously works although. The proofs in the pudding or the in the drink as Bill Cosby might say.
 

81usaf92

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There may be some truth in the article but not all of it is true. The article states that lane kiffin was involved and instrumental in recruiting Tua to Bama. That is not true. When kiffin was fired, Tua was asked how that would effect his commitment to Bama he said none at all because he did not even know kiffin. He stated that he had only spoken to kiffin once while he was on a visit to Bama. So if you know that some of it is false, maybe you should not accept the rest of it so quickly.
How can he not know kiffin and still speak to kiffin on a visit?

Tua and Galu were well aware of who Kiffin was during recruiting even though Tosh took the lead on him. You are just trying hard to not believe that perhaps CNS and Daboll were fighting over qbs all year and there was truth to Kiffin’s remarks about Tua leaving.
 

MobileCrimson

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This concerns me over the next hire. Clearly Tua was a better fit for Daboll's offense, yet it took several weak performances before Saban to make the switch.

How does this affect any future OC? With Saban clearly dictating who starts, will OCs be leery of coming here?


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That's a fair point and I think the answer would be how much the potential hire needs the exposure and success to advance their career. Either way, you are going to win alot of games as the OC under Saban.

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KrAzY3

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This concerns me over the next hire. Clearly Tua was a better fit for Daboll's offense, yet it took several weak performances before Saban to make the switch.

How does this affect any future OC? With Saban clearly dictating who starts, will OCs be leery of coming here?
Part of this feels like much ado about nothing. First, as awesome as Tua was, and clearly he was awesome, the risk was abundantly clear. We saw several of the things you might worry about with a young, inexperienced quarterback in just one half of football. Turnovers, not knowing the play, clock management issues, big negative plays... this was a risky move and while it was the right move, I still don't buy the idea it was the right move going all the way back to November. Look no further than the Miss. State game, where any of those sorts of things could have altered the outcome (edit: obviously that's highly speculative, I can see why people would feel otherwise).

But, setting that aside. Clearly Saban was the impetus behind landing Tua. Kiffin was on the way out, Sark was barely there, Daboll wasn't even a college guy, so it's hard to imagine Saban wasn't in the driver's seat when it came to landing Tua. Furthermore, who sets up the plan to take off Tua's redshirt? That has to be Saban to right? Finally, who puts Tua in every chance he got when the game wasn't on the line? Saban right?

So, if anyone is unhappy with the Tua situation as it relates to Saban, well... without Saban there is no Tua ready to play when he was needed. This situation was Saban's creation, and I mean that in a good way.

What else did you want him to call for Jalen ?
I'm really not trying to argue, because he's gone and this is all behind the team. But how about the stuff he stripped from the playbook that Kiffin used? It worked, it got yards, it got points, and there's simply no question his play calling was different right? My point was Daboll's playcalling was suited more for Tua than it was for Hurts, and part of that has to be on Daboll. We saw Kiffin mold the offense around three different quarterbacks, Daboll seemed to lack that ingenuity and flexibility.
 
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TIDE-HSV

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Don't know if any of its true or not, maybe a little of it? Wish Daboll success in NFL. Regardless, I sincerely hope that there is a major effort between both Jalen and Tua to compete this spring AND a clear decisive leader emerges. IF not, then I expect CNS to set expectations and tell everyone he will experiment with a two QB system. I respect Jalen with regards to his record and game management abilities, I am more than excited with the caliber QB that Tua is. Tua's passing not only utilizes our great receivers but opens up the run game which I think is past due. And I believe Tua extends drives which gives our awesome defense time to rest when needed. RTR
The problem is that, in practice, one QB had long since won the battle in the eyes of everyone but the HC. Unless there's a reversal of what I saw a week ago, I want the QB competition to be behind us...
 

TIDE-HSV

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I for one am glad his big flappers are no longer part of the Crimson Tide. Too bad he can move on and keep his comments about his own team.
He'll keep talking as long as someone will listen, and, as long as he's talking about the Crimson Tide and Saban, someone will listen...
 

theballguy

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I'm fine with how everything worked out. Georgia had not seen much on him and was ill prepared to take Tua on. We won a national championship. I can't understand why there would be much second-guessing.
 

Ole Man Dan

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Daboll may have wanted Tua, but Coach Saban wanted to give Tua a little more playing time. Tua got some meaningful snaps and got better as the season progressed.
THEN... Jalen began to struggle. Against MSU, we got a W., against Auburn we got a L. They had our number.
Against Georgia Jalen struggled.
Georgia played the Defense of 8 men in the box and forced Jalen to throw.
IMO: Jalen got very conservative with his passes trying to not make a mistake... He was playing not to lose, not playing to win.

HALFTIME...
Coach Saban decided the only chance we had to win was to change Quarterbacks, and put in a Gunslinger.
Tua came in and made some mistakes, he also brought us back.
In OT, Tua 'looked off' the Defense and hit Smith on a perfectly thrown long ball. Story Book Ending.
 
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Bamabuzzard

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It doesn't matter what Daboll wanted or thought to be quite honest. It is pure speculation that the Tua we saw in the second half of the NCG would be the Tua we would have gotten if he would have been inserted into the LSU or Miss St games. My guess is all the practice snaps and reps Tua got, along with the all the mop up time he got before he was inserted into the second half of the title game. Helped produce the results we saw. And if he would have been put in earlier, lets say the aTm game, are we certain he would have been just as ready as he was in the second half of the NCG? Again, absolute PURE speculation. Daboll can be as frustrated as he wants. But which one has won five national titles and which one has been in the NFL 18 years and has had not so glamorous stints as OC? I'll stick by Saban. No one is perfect and more times than not what he does and decides produces trophies. Let's got over this and move on...
 

CrimsonProf

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The problem is that, in practice, one QB had long since won the battle in the eyes of everyone but the HC. Unless there's a reversal of what I saw a week ago, I want the QB competition to be behind us...
I hope the new OC hire is that honest with CNS before he gets an offer.


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MobileCrimson

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It doesn't matter what Daboll wanted or thought to be quite honest. It is pure speculation that the Tua we saw in the second half of the NCG would be the Tua we would have gotten if he would have been inserted into the LSU or Miss St games. My guess is all the practice snaps and reps Tua got, along with the all the mop up time he got before he was inserted into the second half of the title game. Helped produce the results we saw. And if he would have been put in earlier, lets say the aTm game, are we certain he would have been just as ready as he was in the second half of the NCG? Again, absolute PURE speculation. Daboll can be as frustrated as he wants. But which one has won five national titles and which one has been in the NFL 18 years and has had not so glamorous stints as OC? I'll stick by Saban. No one is perfect and more times than not what he does and decides produces trophies. Let's got over this and move on...
Nothing is certain except that the offense didn't work and it took Saban until the 2nd half of the National Championship to make a change. The definition of insanity finally caught hold.

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Bamabuzzard

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Nothing is certain except that the offense didn't work and it took Saban until the 2nd half of the National Championship to make a change. The definition of insanity finally caught hold.

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Again, we have no idea if the Tua we saw in the second of the NCG is the same Tua we would have gotten if we would have started him against LSU. You would have to accept he stagnated in his development to think we would have. Tua took A LOT of practice reps and mop up reps from mid season to when he was put in. He had an additional 15 practices by simply being in bowl game. So are we to assume he made zero progress from mid season to the second half of the NCG? That would be absurd to think that. Saban made the right call at the right time. Which in the end isn't that all that matters?
 

MobileCrimson

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Again, we have no idea if the Tua we saw in the second of the NCG is the same Tua we would have gotten if we would have started him against LSU. You would have to accept he stagnated in his development to think we would have. Tua took A LOT of practice reps and mop up reps from mid season to when he was put in. He had an additional 15 practices by simply being in bowl game. So are we to assume he made zero progress from mid season to the second half of the NCG? That would be absurd to think that. Saban made the right call at the right time. Which in the end isn't that all that matters?
Why do you assume he wasn't ready earlier on in the season? I agree that we can't argue the unknown but if you are going to assume he wasn't ready a logical person has to assume he was. There is no evidence to dispute that.

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Bamabuzzard

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Why do you assume he wasn't ready earlier on in the season? I agree that we can't argue the unknown but if you are going to assume he wasn't ready a logical person has to assume he was. There is no evidence to dispute that.

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I'm not saying he wasn't. But which is more likely, he wasn't ready at the mid point of the season but with the additional practices and mop up duties between the time he was put in. He got better. Or he was just as prepared midway through the season as he was during the national title game and he simply didn't get any better. Because remember, he made A LOT of freshman mistakes in the NCG. To believe the latter you have to assume he didn't get any better from the midpoint of season to when he was put in. Because if he was just as good at the mid point of the season as he was at the end. Then he didn't improve any. Which is highly unlikely. Because anyone who plays sports knows, you're either getting better or getting worse. There's no such thing as staying the same. My guess is, if he would have been put in during the LSU game he would have lost us the game. I believe the same for the MSU game. He was put in at the exact right time and it paid off.
 

MobileCrimson

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I'm not saying he wasn't. But which is more likely, he wasn't ready at the mid point of the season but with the additional practices and mop up duties between the time he was put in. He got better. Or he was just as prepared midway through the season as he was during the national title game and he simply didn't get any better. Because remember, he made A LOT of freshman mistakes in the NCG. To believe the latter you have to assume he didn't get any better from the midpoint of season to when he was put in. Because if he was just as good at the mid point of the season as he was at the end. Then he didn't improve any. Which is highly unlikely. Because anyone who plays sports knows, you're either getting better or getting worse. There's no such thing as staying the same. My guess is, if he would have been put in during the LSU game he would have lost us the game. I believe the same for the MSU game. He was put in at the exact right time and it paid off.
I think he would have been just as good for the MSU or LSU game. There is nothing compared to real game experience and he delivered on the biggest stage. The LSU game in Tuscaloosa was small fries compared to the pressure he had in the NC.

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Bamabuzzard

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I think he would have been just as good for the MSU or LSU game. There is nothing compared to real game experience and he delivered on the biggest stage. The LSU game in Tuscaloosa was small fries compared to the pressure he had in the NC.

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There's no way you have ever played sport's if you can so easily dismiss the impact of literally thousands of reps that entailed both practice and game experience.

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MobileCrimson

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There's no way you have ever played sport's if you can so easily dismiss the impact of literally thousands of reps that entailed both practice and game experience.

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I have and I don't discount practice. However, Tua was ready midseason just like the internal reports indicate.

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BamaInBham

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I think he would have been just as good for the MSU or LSU game. There is nothing compared to real game experience and he delivered on the biggest stage. The LSU game in Tuscaloosa was small fries compared to the pressure he had in the NC.

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It's not just the pressure, he proved he is almost immune, it's the reps. I don't disagree that Tua might have played earlier, but consider that Jalen was 24-1 before the AU game, he won the MSU game with 2 late TD drives which included key down field passes, he never turned the ball over, even at his worst. Even if you don't think it's right, certainly you would agree that it's understandable that he would not bench him in favor of a true Fr, no matter how well he had performed in practice and mop up duty. It's admitted by Saban and others that they had planned on Tua possible playing after the AU loss, in the Clemson game. It turned out he was not needed. And remember in the UGA game, that the score was a very manageable 6-0 with Bama having the ball, with less than 1:30 left in the half. So, Saban makes the change in time to win the NC, having proven his loyalty to a player who had performed remarkably well, the SEC POY, who could not work harder or want it more, who took tough coaching very well, who was a great kid and done great things for the program. It couldn't have worked out better in most respects. Any reasonable person who wanted Tua earlier surely can understand why CNS was reluctant to make the change and agree that it worked.
 

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