Daboll frustrated - Wanted to start Tua in November

BamaInBham · Jan 16, 2018

PA Tide Fan said:
I believe the story. It makes sense. When we started to struggle against the better teams many of us fans thought maybe Tua was the answer. Contrary to what some people say I believe what the fans think about a situation is also thought by members of the team as well. I know the guys on the team were saying they were 100% behind Jalen but it was pretty obvious that some members of the team were in Tua's camp for a while and this story confirms it.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Plus neither the fans or the players know all of the issues involved with such a decision. "...thought maybe..." finally, they don't have to make the decision. It's quite different to speculate vs do.

Jalen was 24-1 before the AU game, having just won the MSU game with two 4th qtr drives where he had to complete down field passes. Tua was a true Fr. who had done well in practice and mop up duty. (After the AU game, I also preferred Tua, but posted nothing.) Surely, anyone can understand Saban's reluctance.

Any coach would be an idiot to listen to the fans. Not that they are always wrong, but the odds are not good

, and that is being kind. It's not that fans are all stupid, but they don't have all of the facts, are unaware of all of the issues involved, can just speculate without having to do, and are not professionals who are spending 70 hrs a week and getting paid many dollars, and that livelihood is on the line. Fans usually think they know far more than they do. Even when they come to the right conclusion, it is often for the wrong reasons.

LA4Bama · Jan 16, 2018

Tua was better by Tennessee. We all saw it. He would not have lost to LSU or Aub.

TitleWave · Jan 16, 2018

So what if the freshman "was better" by mid season? Coach Bryant used to say of Scottsboro's own, Pat Trammell: "All he does is win." Until the last game of the season, all Hurts had done was come within three seconds of winning them all since he was a that rarity of rarities, a true freshman starter for a program with the mantra "Defense wins championships." He was also the quintessential QB for 'Bama "playing from ahead" - and imposing will on opponents. Until that last game of the regular season, 'Bama had been behind about three minutes through 11 games and margin of victory was five touchdowns. (I'm rounding off here.) Reclaimed the lead in the second half in the rivalry game, then, essentially playing from ahead, got the cold shoulder from the OC. Hurts was stymied as much by the sideline calls as by his own conservatism with the football. He was set up to fail by both aspects of 'Bama's offense. Let's not forget his courage and tenacity in his first real start vs. Ole Miss after getting drilled on a play that could've ended a lesser competitor's career. Let's not forget Kirby Smart was a driver of that 'Bama mantra "Defense wins championships" for 10 years. Saban made the move to move Kirby and Uga off their appropriation of that mantra by calling on Tua. All that preceded his making that move is just noise, whether "accurate" noise or not. The outcome justified the means, and if you've got absolute trust in Saban which is pretty d*mn well earned by now, aigt?, always will - no matter who plays or coaches for him.

drwho · Jan 16, 2018

TitleWave said:
So what if the freshman "was better" by mid season? Coach Bryant used to say of Scottsboro's own, Pat Trammell: "All he does is win." Until the last game of the season, all Hurts had done was come within three seconds of winning them all since he was a that rarity of rarities, a true freshman starter for a program with the mantra "Defense wins championships." He was also the quintessential QB for 'Bama "playing from ahead" - and imposing will on opponents. Until that last game of the regular season, 'Bama had been behind about three minutes through 11 games and margin of victory was five touchdowns. (I'm rounding off here.) Reclaimed the lead in the second half in the rivalry game, then, essentially playing from ahead, got the cold shoulder from the OC. Hurts was stymied as much by the sideline calls as by his own conservatism with the football. He was set up to fail by both aspects of 'Bama's offense. Let's not forget his courage and tenacity in his first real start vs. Ole Miss after getting drilled on a play that could've ended a lesser competitor's career. Let's not forget Kirby Smart was a driver of that 'Bama mantra "Defense wins championships" for 10 years. Saban made the move to move Kirby and Uga off their appropriation of that mantra by calling on Tua. All that preceded his making that move is just noise, whether "accurate" noise or not. The outcome justified the means, and if you've got absolute trust in Saban which is pretty d*mn well earned by now, aigt?, always will - no matter who plays or coaches for him.

And, given the chance, all Tua did was win.

selmaborntidefan · Jan 16, 2018

LA4Bama said:
Tua was better by Tennessee. We all saw it. He would not have lost to LSU or Aub.

Not to be snarky but Tua threw a pretty bad Pick Six for Tennessee’s only points of the game. The whole thing was a microcosm: he did come back for a great TD, too. I suspect it’s all true but coaches also shouldn’t air this kind of stuff either.

TitleWave · Jan 16, 2018

selmaborntidefan said:
Not to be snarky but Tua threw a pretty bad Pick Six for Tennessee’s only points of the game. The whole thing was a microcosm: he did come back for a great TD, too. I suspect it’s all true but coaches also shouldn’t air this kind of stuff either.

"Rat candy."

Redwood Forrest · Jan 16, 2018

I was very frustrated, players were clearly frustrated. I can't blame the OC for being frustrated. The thing I can't figure out is why Coach Saban was not frustrated.

Crimson1967 · Jan 16, 2018

LA4Bama said:
Tua was better by Tennessee. We all saw it. He would not have lost to LSU or Aub.

Jalen didn’t lose to LSU.

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Chukker Veteran · Jan 16, 2018

rgw said:
. He probably was good as gone after the Iron Bowl but he's a professional who finishes the job.

I thought Saban hired him to do a two year job, and tried to persuade him to live up to his commitment to be a man of his word and stay the second year.

BamaInBham · Jan 16, 2018

Redwood Forrest said:
I was very frustrated, players were clearly frustrated. I can't blame the OC for being frustrated. The thing I can't figure out is why Coach Saban was not frustrated.

Probably because he was undefeated, winning every game by 2 TDs until MSU. In that game his 22-1, reigning SEC POY, led two 4th qtr TD drives, the last one throwing a game winning TD. The D was the problem that game. IMO, it wasn't until the loss to AU that the aura of Jalen took a big hit. It's hard for a HC to bench what was a 24-1 QB leading into the AU game, even for a super talented player, who was a true fr prone to dangerous throws. After AU, they made serious plans to include Tua into the game plan for more than mop up duty. They didn't need him for Clemson, but they put him in when needed vs UGA. As bad as the O was after the first drive, the score was a manageable 6-0 til 7 seconds left in the half. I wanted Tua a litlle earlier in the season myself, but I certainly understand why CNS waited. He knew what was happening. I can't understand the disrespect, in some cases anger (not saying you), directed towards Coach Saban. He HC'ed the team to another NC in spectacular fashion, but even if they didn't win, fans should understand or if not that show respect towards someone who has done so much for the program, however imperfectly. Part of this fan base is something else - even in a spectacular, program-changing victory, it finds fault with the greatest HC of all time.

But back to your original question - they were winning, in the only close game, the QB saved the day, partially by passing. The QB, the reigning SEC POY, was 24-1 before AU. IMO, that's why he stayed with Jalen til the change.

Chukker Veteran · Jan 16, 2018

We've got a coach up in his years who seems to be letting his sentiment get the better of his judgement. Has he crested the hill, on the downhill side? If he has lost that winning instinct by failing to see what so many others clearly saw...is it time to look for a better coach? What will we do, all is lost.

I'm foolish enough to feel good about how Saban is able to evaluate his team. I won't always agree, but I will support him and his decisions while he has this amazing run going.

Redwood Forrest · Jan 16, 2018

BamaInBham said:
Probably because he was undefeated, winning every game by 2 TDs until MSU. In that game his 22-1, reigning SEC POY, led two 4th qtr TD drives, the last one throwing a game winning TD. The D was the problem that game. IMO, it wasn't until the loss to AU that the aura of Jalen took a big hit. It's hard for a HC to bench what was a 24-1 QB leading into the AU game, even for a super talented player, who was a true fr prone to dangerous throws. After AU, they made serious plans to include Tua into the game plan for more than mop up duty. They didn't need him for Clemson, but they put him in when needed vs UGA. As bad as the O was after the first drive, the score was a manageable 6-0 til 7 seconds left in the half. I wanted Tua a litlle earlier in the season myself, but I certainly understand why CNS waited. He knew what was happening. I can't understand the disrespect, in some cases anger (not saying you), directed towards Coach Saban. He HC'ed the team to another NC in spectacular fashion, but even if they didn't win, fans should understand or if not that show respect towards someone who has done so much for the program, however imperfectly. Part of this fan base is something else - even in a spectacular, program-changing victory, it finds fault with the greatest HC of all time.

But back to your original question - they were winning, in the only close game, the QB saved the day, partially by passing. The QB, the reigning SEC POY, was 24-1 before AU. IMO, that's why he stayed with Jalen til the change.

IMO, it wasn't until the loss to AU that the aura of Jalen took a big hit. We will have to disagree on this. Jalen took a big hit midseason with lots of people who could see that we don't really have a downfield passing game.

bamamick · Jan 16, 2018

Well, the thing is, iirc we finished 28th in total offense? So you look at our offense and the players we dress out, and you look at their pedigree, should we have finished better than 28th, and why didn't we? We played some pretty stout defenses and that had something to do with it, but I do believe that if you have the talent we are looking at you might expect better results.

rtr

Junkman · Jan 16, 2018

I can completely understand why Saban might have wanted to get Tua more experience in regular season games, likely next season. Obviously something had to be done in the second half but let's be real. As happy as we are with how things turned out, it's not as if Tua "engineered" those last two touchdowns. To a certain degree, he pulled a rabbit out of his hat and I'm glad he did but I still see a very green gunslinger type that would have concerned Saban about making the swap this past season.

Tenntiderman · Jan 16, 2018

rgw said:
There were rumors that he may leave if McDaniel got a starting job and vacated the Pats OC position. That rumor started before the Sugar Bowl was even played.

But the Bama situation was going on well prior to the Sugar Bowl. I think Daboll was very frustrated. Not sure about Tua. Not starting anything there. Daboll is a different story. I don't think he felt he was running the Offense.

CrimsonProf · Jan 16, 2018

I see some of y'all share the same blind spot as Coach Saban.

And can we get over the Tua pick six? UT's man got the ball on their five yard line by making a very athletic play and none of our guys could run him down. It's not like Tua missed a safety on our own thirty.

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Chukker Veteran · Jan 16, 2018

Junkman said:
I can completely understand why Saban might have wanted to get Tua more experience in regular season games, likely next season. Obviously something had to be done in the second half but let's be real. As happy as we are with how things turned out, it's not as if Tua "engineered" those last two touchdowns. To a certain degree, he pulled a rabbit out of his hat and I'm glad he did but I still see a very green gunslinger type that would have concerned Saban about making the swap this past season.

I think you hit the nail. I also think there might have been other factors that influenced Saban's decision that Saban was able to keep private. Things that aren't being considered by people who are disappointment that Saban couldn't see what they saw.

bamaslammer · Jan 16, 2018

I can see both sides, you don't want to create a QB controversy. I have not seen many teams succeed with that. Two, the main difference between US and Clemson was they threw critical picks that we turned into points. Certainly Tua is more prone to throwing picks than Jalen,

In the end this is going to be ticky tacky stuff to whine about in a year that we won the National Championship. For the 2018 season It doesn't matter who Saban interviews for OC the first question they will ask is "are you going to make me play Jalen or can I pick the best passer". Saban has always believed spring and fall is where you pick your starters, Tua clearly was better and he's no longer a freshman so I don't believe Saban will not have any problem letting the best player rise to the top at this time. He's just real touchy about switching QB's during the season.

92tide · Jan 16, 2018

CrimsonProf said:
I see some of y'all share the same blind spot as Coach Saban.

And can we get over the Tua pick six? UT's man got the ball on their five yard line by making a very athletic play and none of our guys could run him down. It's not like Tua missed a safety on our own thirty.

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blind spot? smh

TAKEPRIDE22 · Jan 16, 2018

I still think Tua takes CNS out of his comfort zone, that is, a QB that takes care of the ball and doesn't take too many risk. Tua, while he is the better passer right now, will take chances and turn the ball over.

Daboll frustrated - Wanted to start Tua in November

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