Daboll frustrated - Wanted to start Tua in November

BamaInBham said:

I'm not sure how you can say he called the same game for both QBs. Jalen threw 8 passes, Tua 24. There were other differences. But the bottom line is that Jalen simply was not producing well against good defenses. It hurt the running game as well as the passing game. Some of that could possibly be put at Daboll's feet but most of it at the QB's limitations. What else did you want him to call for Jalen ?

In the 2nd half, Bama put the ball in a true Fr. hands not to manage it, but to win the game by throwing 24 times.​

The second half was a great performance - a score or easy FG attempt on 6 of 9 possessions, including 5 of the last 6, and the last 4. Each of the last 4 possessions were critical and full of pressure, and Bama's offense delivered (as did the D). It was not perfect, but it was a remarkable, legendary and program changing performance.

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True, but how many times was a pass play called and Jalen took off too early and ran it instead of passing (Tua had a lot of rushes also)? We also were not converting much on drives so we frankly didn't run that many plays at all. Big difference was that Tua was able to convert and keep drives moving much more. Jalen had opportunities to make plays but for whatever reason wasn't able to pull the trigger.

Hurts had a problem down the stretch where he was getting a ton of time in the pocket and/or extended pocket (rollout from the pressure) and still never making a throwing decision other than tossing it out of bounds. He was a bigger threat last year when he made his one read from the pocket, rolled for a quick glance in the secondary passing offense, then tucked it and ran. By doing the right thing and extending the play for a pass but never actually pulling the trigger for a variety of reasons, he actually debilitated our offense. The offensive staff had spent an entire off-season trying to mold him into a machine in the secondary passing offense when the pocket broke down but it just never materialized against meaningful opponents. It probably cost Hurts 200-300 more yards rushing this season and who knows how many extra first downs that kept our injured defense off the field and led to more points.

It would be interesting to see Tua operate in a "regular" game where we try to establish the run and use PA to set up the throws. You know; ;move the ball, make first downs, take a shot when called for. So far, we've only seen him in mop up duty and having to score on most every possession in the Championship game. I suspect that he won't be the turnover machine some describe or the all world QB others described. He will most likely start off somewhere in the middle; and then move to "all world".

rgw said:

Hurts had a problem down the stretch where he was getting a ton of time in the pocket and/or extended pocket (rollout from the pressure) and still never making a throwing decision other than tossing it out of bounds. He was a bigger threat last year when he made his one read from the pocket, rolled for a quick glance in the secondary passing offense, then tucked it and ran. By doing the right thing and extending the play for a pass but never actually pulling the trigger for a variety of reasons, he actually debilitated our offense. The offensive staff had spent an entire off-season trying to mold him into a machine in the secondary passing offense when the pocket broke down but it just never materialized against meaningful opponents. It probably cost Hurts 200-300 more yards rushing this season and who knows how many extra first downs that kept our injured defense off the field and led to more points.

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I expect Jalen, Saban and Tua all understand this, and do not disagree.

TIDE-HSV said:

He'll keep talking as long as someone will listen, and, as long as he's talking about the Crimson Tide and Saban, someone will listen...

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Earle, I’m not sure someone even has to be listening...


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Bamabuzzard said:

Again, we have no idea if the Tua we saw in the second of the NCG is the same Tua we would have gotten if we would have started him against LSU. You would have to accept he stagnated in his development to think we would have. Tua took A LOT of practice reps and mop up reps from mid season to when he was put in. He had an additional 15 practices by simply being in bowl game. So are we to assume he made zero progress from mid season to the second half of the NCG? That would be absurd to think that. Saban made the right call at the right time. Which in the end isn't that all that matters?

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Totally valid points BB. I’m thinking CNS was hoping we could produce a Clemson game 2.0 with Jalen and he’d live with the QB competition in the spring. Let’s also point out that Tua’s INT happened because he missed the most BASIC of calls RUN/PASS. He took a horrible sack. He made up for both but both could definitely point to why Saban was hesitant about pulling the trigger on the switch. The first half removed any other obstacles because the game was lost with Jalen playing.


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Recommend listening to Suttles on this morning's Tuscaloosa News podcast discuss this.

This call looks obvious 10 minutes after a miracle win. But rewind the game to the moment Tua threw an INT, and close the game out at 20-7, and it does not look so good. Saban has often said "it was a good call because it worked" or "well, it didnt work, so I would have liked to try something else".

Philosophically, you either go with your steady hand that isnt going to lose you the game, or you go with the hot hand that needs to win it. Jalen is a decorated veteran, a steady hand, and like buying IBM, nobody ever got fired for going with that.

I've seen articles titled "should Saban have played Tua earlier"? This is a safe article to write to make yourself look smart. But the great ones just seem to know when to make the call. You should read about Neil Armstrong, during an early space flight his vehicle went into a death spiral. I bet only one in a hundred million people could have that sprung on them and they do the right thing. Making the call and doing the right thing under pressure is a big deal, it's what separates the article-writers from the championship-winners.

Bamabuzzard said:

Again, we have no idea if the Tua we saw in the second of the NCG is the same Tua we would have gotten if we would have started him against LSU. You would have to accept he stagnated in his development to think we would have. Tua took A LOT of practice reps and mop up reps from mid season to when he was put in. He had an additional 15 practices by simply being in bowl game. So are we to assume he made zero progress from mid season to the second half of the NCG? That would be absurd to think that. Saban made the right call at the right time. Which in the end isn't that all that matters?

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I am right there with you but I do have issue with this part? Why is it absurd to think Tua might not have made any progress during all those practices, when it is pretty clear than Jalen has made no progress, even regressed, over the last two years' worth of practice?

CrimsonProf said:

I see some of y'all share the same blind spot as Coach Saban.

And can we get over the Tua pick six? UT's man got the ball on their five yard line by making a very athletic play and none of our guys could run him down. It's not like Tua missed a safety on our own thirty.


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Seriously? It looked like a horrible decision by Tua and an easy pick to me.

gtgilbert said:

True, but how many times was a pass play called and Jalen took off too early and ran it instead of passing (Tua had a lot of rushes also)? We also were not converting much on drives so we frankly didn't run that many plays at all. Big difference was that Tua was able to convert and keep drives moving much more. Jalen had opportunities to make plays but for whatever reason wasn't able to pull the trigger.

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Your first sentence explains the rest of the paragraph. Case in point, this play Ben Litvin tweeted last Wednesday.

https://twitter.com/abc/status/951284469792739328

So many here are talking as though Nick Saban walked into the locker room at halftime and proclaimed to everyone "Tua is with the 1's to start the half!" Everything we've been told (and seen) to this point completely goes against that.

Calvin Ridley was clearly frustrated at times in the month of November when the offense wasn't clicking. Word started to leak after the Auburn game his frustrations were really on display in the locker room after the game.

We've heard how good of a job Locksley did in keeping the WRs from going wild over things.

Some have said some players in the locker room at halftime voiced their displeasure and clearly got the point across that Tua needed to play.

We're now hearing Daboll was frustrated at times because he felt Tua deserved more of a chance to show what he can do.

These points are why some of us are cautious of what Saban might do with a new OC or if some great candidates might shy away from taking the job. Even if one guy fits the offense better than the other, Nick Saban is going to play his guy.

RTR91 said:

This concerns me over the next hire. Clearly Tua was a better fit for Daboll's offense, yet it took several weak performances before Saban to make the switch.

How does this affect any future OC? With Saban clearly dictating who starts, will OCs be leery of coming here?


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Might have already been answered, but the NC "let the cat out of the bag" and there's no putting it bag in.

I just don't see how there's any way CNS and any OC will somehow revert back to Jalen as a better option than Tua. JMO

I was frustrated, and wanted him to start in November, too . . .

crimsonaudio said:

Is the article true?

Possibly.

Do I care one bit what some random sportswriter in KC claims having not heard this directly from those involved?

Nope.

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Granted, the OP link is for a Yahoo article based on an actual Tuscaloosa News article, which I'm going to believe to be true considering the writer.

Go Bama said:

Seriously? It looked like a horrible decision by Tua and an easy pick to me.

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Go back and watch the replay. The linebacker knocks the laser pass down with 1 hand and it falls down into this arms. It was a very athletic play and took great hand/eye coordination, but if the same thing happens 10 times, the other nine times that ball doesn't bounce straight down into his awaiting hands.

Tua make a mistake to not see him, but he probably learned a lesson there to put a tad of touch on the throw the next time.

I'm sure he learned a lesson, but way too much has been made over this play IMO.

BamaMoon said:

Go back and watch the replay. The linebacker knocks the laser pass down with 1 hand and it falls down into this arms. It was a very athletic play and took great hand/eye coordination, but if the same thing happens 10 times, the other nine times that ball doesn't bounce straight down into his awaiting hands.

Tua make a mistake to not see him, but he probably learned a lesson there to put a tad of touch on the throw the next time.

I'm sure he learned a lesson, but way too much has been made over this play IMO.

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I rewatched it before I posted. The gif file is too large to post. I just disagree that it was a great play by the lb.

It definitely was a laser though! Kid’s arm is unreal.


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Bamabuzzard said:

There's no way you have ever played sport's if you can so easily dismiss the impact of literally thousands of reps that entailed both practice and game experience.

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A coach I used to work for called this the “religion if repetition”.


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