New California declares 'independence' from California in bid to become 51st state

uafanataum

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I am sort of for this as California has so many electoral college votes. This would make a candidate need to win 2 states to win all of those votes.
OTOH there are complications with this. One being the state debt. Since these counties have benefited from the large state debt they should pick up their portion. Who decides what their portion is? Is it by population of by number of counties seceding? Is any portion of the counties wishing to secede a part of a district that does not want to secede? If so who will draw the new lines?
 

day-day

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They can create their own legislature and have the US recognize it as the true legislature of the entire state of California. Then they will have the votes to make this happen and it will model the creation of West Virginia as they desire.
 

Elefantman

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The hardest part will be coming up with a two letter postal code for New California that makes any sense. So for that reason, they should call it East California.
 

Tidewater

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I am sort of for this as California has so many electoral college votes. This would make a candidate need to win 2 states to win all of those votes.
What this would mean is the same number of Electors, plus two additional (for the two new senators), so the next would be 56 electors between the two states.
OTOH there are complications with this. One being the state debt. Since these counties have benefited from the large state debt they should pick up their portion. Who decides what their portion is? Is it by population of by number of counties seceding? Is any portion of the counties wishing to secede a part of a district that does not want to secede? If so who will draw the new lines?
Virginia sued West Virginia to force the Unconstitutional State to take her share of the Commonwealth's state debt as it stood on April 1861. The US Supreme Court that West Virginia did have to take three-sevenths of the debt the western counties having three sevenths of the white population in 1860. Virginia won and West Virginia was paying that debt until 1939.
As for which counties ended up in which state, referendum determined that, although, in keeping with Lincoln's and the Union's respect for the principles of democracy, Union troops were stationed at polling stations and only those who swore they were loyal to the Union were allowed to vote. Go figure.
 

Tidewater

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They can create their own legislature and have the US recognize it as the true legislature of the entire state of California. Then they will have the votes to make this happen and it will model the creation of West Virginia as they desire.
The counties represented in the "restored government" of Virginia (i.e. the legislature that "approved" the creation of West Virginia) consisted of representatives from Accomack, Northampton, Norfolk, Prince William, Fairfax, Loudoun and Alexandria. Seven out of 148 counties. A disgusting mockery of the concept of democracy.
 

uafanataum

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What this would mean is the same number of Electors, plus two additional (for the two new senators), so the next would be 56 electors between the two states.

Virginia sued West Virginia to force the Unconstitutional State to take her share of the Commonwealth's state debt as it stood on April 1861. The US Supreme Court that West Virginia did have to take three-sevenths of the debt the western counties having three sevenths of the white population in 1860. Virginia won and West Virginia was paying that debt until 1939.
As for which counties ended up in which state, referendum determined that, although, in keeping with Lincoln's and the Union's respect for the principles of democracy, Union troops were stationed at polling stations and only those who swore they were loyal to the Union were allowed to vote. Go figure.
So if one of these states is more left leaning and one is more right leaning this will make sure neither party can win all 56 votes merely by winning the majority of one state. Also, as far as the debt is concerned, I have little faith in the court upholding something that was decided over 150 years ago. They reverse decisions all the time now with little reason.
 

Tidewater

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So if one of these states is more left leaning and one is more right leaning this will make sure neither party can win all 56 votes merely by winning the majority of one state.
I believe the EC vote is 54 now. Split Calif. in two and the same population would be entitled to 56 in two states (because you'd add two more senators).
I do not know enough about the political leanings of what would become "New California," (if it would to happen, for the sake of argument) but I suspect that it would be a matter of one being left-leaning and the other being very very left leaning. I doubt New California would be very conservative, or at least not conservative in a sense that Alabamians would recognize as conservative.
Also, as far as the debt is concerned, I have little faith in the court upholding something that was decided over 150 years ago. They reverse decisions all the time now with little reason.
An interesting discussion. If the legislatures in Sacramento and Washington were to agree to the split (just for the sake of argument), I'd bet that proportional by population would be the way they would divide the state's debt. I'm not really sure how else they might divide the state's debt.
 
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Crimson1967

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In 2016 they had 55 electoral votes. I suspect they will have more after the next census for the 2024 election.

They have 39 Democrats and 14 Republicans in the House. That might change if the New California legislature was run by Republicans.

If both states went blue in the presidential race, that would give the Democrats two more EC votes. But they would stand to lose 20 or so votes if NC went red.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

NationalTitles18

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I believe the EC vote is 54 now. Split Calif. in two and the same population would be entitled to 56 in two states (because you'd add two more senators).
I do not know enough about the political leanings of what would become "New California," (if it would to happen, for the sake of argument) but I suspect that it would be a matter of one being left-leaning and the other being very very left leaning. I doubt New California would be very conservative, or at least not conservative in a sense that Alabamians would recognize as conservative.


An interesting discussion. If the legislatures in Sacramento and Washington were to agree to the split (just for the sake of argument), I'd bet that proportional by population would be the way they would divide the state's debt. I'm not really sure how else they might divide the state's debt.
California is not as homogenous as many seem to believe. Coastal areas and Sac are pretty "liberal" while much of the rest of the state is quite "conservative". Here there is a mixture of religious conservatism like you'd find in Alabama though they seem to be fewer than their more secular conservative brethren. By area conservatives win. By population liberals do. California is 250x770 miles. That's a lot of space for people to disagree. Illinois has a similar urban/rural split in voting tendencies.

Sacramento would never in a million years allow this. The love of power and money and the lure of corruption are too much to overcome. It is a nonstarter, a pipe dream like the State of Jefferson. The people behind it are serious enough and have quite a bit of support. Many in those areas, if not most, are unhappy with the state government. The sentiment is real enough, but the sentiment is not enough and the debt would be a real burden to any new state.
 

Tidewater

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California is not as homogenous as many seem to believe. Coastal areas and Sac are pretty "liberal" while much of the rest of the state is quite "conservative". Here there is a mixture of religious conservatism like you'd find in Alabama though they seem to be fewer than their more secular conservative brethren. By area conservatives win. By population liberals do. California is 250x770 miles. That's a lot of space for people to disagree. Illinois has a similar urban/rural split in voting tendencies.
Fair enough. You live there I don't. My observations came from living in Monterey, which is neither LA, nor SanFran, but is still pretty left-leaning.
Sacramento would never in a million years allow this. The love of power and money and the lure of corruption are too much to overcome. It is a nonstarter, a pipe dream like the State of Jefferson. The people behind it are serious enough and have quite a bit of support. Many in those areas, if not most, are unhappy with the state government. The sentiment is real enough, but the sentiment is not enough and the debt would be a real burden to any new state.
Unless twenty-some politicians stood up and said, "We are the legitimate legislature of the entire state of California and we agree to the division of the state into California and New California." And we had a president as unethical as Lincoln to accept that proclamation as legitimate and constitutionally sufficient.
Neither contingency is likely.
 

CharminTide

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Fair enough. You live there I don't. My observations came from living in Monterey, which is neither LA, nor SanFran, but is still pretty left-leaning.
Monterey and SF are not significantly different in terms of political ideology. CA is just like every other state: cities lean hard left, and rural counties lean hard right. Philadelphia and Pittsburgh are blue, while everything in between is red. Cleveland and Columbus are blue, while the parts of Ohio outside major cities are red. There are no red or blue "states" if you really want to simplify. The biggest political difference between Oregon and South Carolina is the ratio of urban to rural voters.
 

CajunCrimson

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Fair enough. You live there I don't. My observations came from living in Monterey, which is neither LA, nor SanFran, but is still pretty left-leaning.


Unless twenty-some politicians stood up and said, "We are the legitimate legislature of the entire state of California and we agree to the division of the state into California and New California." And we had a president as unethical as Lincoln to accept that proclamation as legitimate and constitutionally sufficient.
Neither contingency is likely.
Now this one - we might have. ;)
 

NationalTitles18

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Fair enough. You live there I don't. My observations came from living in Monterey, which is neither LA, nor SanFran, but is still pretty left-leaning.


Unless twenty-some politicians stood up and said, "We are the legitimate legislature of the entire state of California and we agree to the division of the state into California and New California." And we had a president as unethical as Lincoln to accept that proclamation as legitimate and constitutionally sufficient.
Neither contingency is likely.
If that's the case then it has a chance after all... JS
 

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