Long-term health insurance premiums doubling and more

rgw · Jan 18, 2018

Here's a bit more of what I'm trying to say - again I don't have all the answers but what I know does seem to point a certain direction in my mind - there are two things going here:

1. Until you reach medicare age, private healthcare seems to be about cost mitigation that has not typically prioritized longterm health. They try to pass off the longterm complications of what they will and will not cover to the government in your medicare years

2. The costs of these routine health complications compounded by old age are exorbitant because the hospitals know the government is footing the bill.

Here's a third point: rural healthcare is all but disappearing in this country and the percentage of elderly in rurality is astronomical. Seems like federalizing the hospitals AND medicare for all would be the solution but what do I know? Answer: not everything!

chanson78 · Jan 18, 2018

rgw said:
Our national medical approach to advanced age is excellent for a for-profit model that can extract money out of the government at ease. I don't have all the answers but we have to start by removing a great deal of the profit motivation out of health.

I am not completely sure this is the case. There are still unscrupulous people.

When my dad's gall bladder got inflamed/infected whatever, he was in the hospital for the surgery. The day after there was a guy that came by, not part of the hospital, shoving forms in his face to get the approved medical support devices to recover at home from a gall bladder surgery. This included a wheelchair and walker. Both of which seemed astronomical. Much more expensive than if he had just gone to a medical supply store and purchased it. Now this guy delivered the equipment to the room, but this seems almost predatory, as people recovering after a major procedure, especially the elderly, may not be able to recognize what is going on. It didn't matter that my dad already had a walker and wheelchair at home. It was approved so it must be good right?

CrimsonNagus · Jan 18, 2018

Displaced Bama Fan said:
It just befuddles me how it costs so much. It really does.

Because they can and nobody stops them. You know, blah blah blah yea capitalism blah blah blah.

I 100% for caps on medical cost but it will never happen. If you cap medical cost you will essentially be capping doctor salaries as well. Can’t pay surgeons 150k a year if cost are cap at actual affordable rates. In this country, lowering salaries is a big no no so, medical caps will never happen.

I had to go to the ER twice during the week of Jan. 1. First visit was actually during the Sugar Bowl. It was a gallbladder issue, but not stones. I was never admitted to the hospital but, both times they did some fancy scans and X-rays that I’m sure cost thousands. I also had a scope done of my stomach to rule out ulcers. We are on the edge of our seats waiting for these bills to start flying in, we expect this to ruin our plans for the year and it is still Jan.

It’s sad that, in this great country, when you suddenly feel this excruciating pain in your stomach, your first thought is I can’t afford for this to happen.

92tide · Jan 18, 2018

Displaced Bama Fan said:
I'm sorry your family has had to go through that. I can't even imagine.

it made life interesting, that's for sure

good thing is everyone is all good now.

92tide · Jan 18, 2018

rgw said:
Here's a bit more of what I'm trying to say - again I don't have all the answers but what I know does seem to point a certain direction in my mind - there are two things going here:

1. Until you reach medicare age, private healthcare seems to be about cost mitigation that has not typically prioritized longterm health. They try to pass off the longterm complications of what they will and will not cover to the government in your medicare years

2. The costs of these routine health complications compounded by old age are exorbitant because the hospitals know the government is footing the bill.

Here's a third point: rural healthcare is all but disappearing in this country and the percentage of elderly in rurality is astronomical. Seems like federalizing the hospitals AND medicare for all would be the solution but what do I know? Answer: not everything!

i read in the paper over the holidays that the hospital in haleyville is closing. it has long not been able to provide much in the way of care beyond triage (i think that is the proper term) but there is now no hospital at all in winston county. there are a lot of chronically sick folks in winston county

92tide · Jan 18, 2018

chanson78 said:
I am not completely sure this is the case. There are still unscrupulous people.

When my dad's gall bladder got inflamed/infected whatever, he was in the hospital for the surgery. The day after there was a guy that came by, not part of the hospital, shoving forms in his face to get the approved medical support devices to recover at home from a gall bladder surgery. This included a wheelchair and walker. Both of which seemed astronomical. Much more expensive than if he had just gone to a medical supply store and purchased it. Now this guy delivered the equipment to the room, but this seems almost predatory, as people recovering after a major procedure, especially the elderly, may not be able to recognize what is going on. It didn't matter that my dad already had a walker and wheelchair at home. It was approved so it must be good right?

that is one of the many reasons that econ 101 concepts don't work in healthcare. when you are sick, you are at a disadvantage vis a vis "rational" decision making

Bazza · Jan 18, 2018

TIDE-HSV said:
Let me add what I have before - the problem doesn't lie with how we pay for care. The problem lies with ballooning costs on the medical side...

This is what I have been thinking. For the past 10-20 years or so as health insurance has been the big topic....why isn't anyone inquiring about the cost of health care itself?

Medical practitioners don't seem to be competing with each other as in other industries. That's also something I wonder about.

Competition is usually a good thing for the consumer in a general sense.

Displaced Bama Fan · Jan 18, 2018

CrimsonNagus said:
Because they can and nobody stops them. You know, blah blah blah yea capitalism blah blah blah.

I 100% for caps on medical cost but it will never happen. If you cap medical cost you will essentially be capping doctor salaries as well. Can’t pay surgeons 150k a year if cost are cap at actual affordable rates. In this country, lowering salaries is a big no no so, medical caps will never happen.

I had to go to the ER twice during the week of Jan. 1. First visit was actually during the Sugar Bowl. It was a gallbladder issue, but not stones. I was never admitted to the hospital but, both times they did some fancy scans and X-rays that I’m sure cost thousands. I also had a scope done of my stomach to rule out ulcers. We are on the edge of our seats waiting for these bills to start flying in, we expect this to ruin our plans for the year and it is still Jan.

It’s sad that, in this great country, when you suddenly feel this excruciating pain in your stomach, your first thought is I can’t afford for this to happen.

No kidding. I have a benign cyst in my shoulder from getting hit while umpiring baseball (foul balls and just bad catchers). I asked myself the same thing as you mentioned...can I afford it? It doesn't bother me other than knowing it's there. It doesn't protrude or anything, it's just under the surface. The doctor told me because of the location, he would have to sedate me, normally they don't but because there are a group of nerves that run through that area for your arm, he wanted me sedated so I didn't "twitch." I get it...anyway, when I asked him what the price difference was, I decided to "postpone" the elective procedure for now.

Displaced Bama Fan · Jan 18, 2018

rgw said:
Here's a bit more of what I'm trying to say - again I don't have all the answers but what I know does seem to point a certain direction in my mind - there are two things going here:

1. Until you reach medicare age, private healthcare seems to be about cost mitigation that has not typically prioritized longterm health. They try to pass off the longterm complications of what they will and will not cover to the government in your medicare years

2. The costs of these routine health complications compounded by old age are exorbitant because the hospitals know the government is footing the bill.

Here's a third point: rural healthcare is all but disappearing in this country and the percentage of elderly in rurality is astronomical. Seems like federalizing the hospitals AND medicare for all would be the solution but what do I know? Answer: not everything!

But then does federalizing these rural hospitals create even greater burdens on taxpayers? If they aren't sustainable say from a county/state level, why should the federal government step in and sustain them? Isn't that a lot of our problem now? The federal government bailing out others for mismanagement only to further mismanage it?

day-day · Jan 18, 2018

Displaced Bama Fan said:
No kidding. I have a benign cyst in my shoulder from getting hit while umpiring baseball (foul balls and just bad catchers). I asked myself the same thing as you mentioned...can I afford it? It doesn't bother me other than knowing it's there. It doesn't protrude or anything, it's just under the surface. The doctor told me because of the location, he would have to sedate me, normally they don't but because there are a group of nerves that run through that area for your arm, he wanted me sedated so I didn't "twitch." I get it...anyway, when I asked him what the price difference was, I decided to "postpone" the elective procedure for now.

Man up; don't sedate and control the twitch.

Sorry.

Displaced Bama Fan · Jan 18, 2018

day-day said:
Man up; don't sedate and control the twitch.

Sorry.

LOL! It's still going to cost me $2K which I just don't feel like parting with if it's not necessary.

jthomas666 · Jan 18, 2018

92tide said:
i forget what the numbers actually are, but a ton of money is spent in the last few months of life trying everything under the sun to extend it a few months longer. it's a hard problem because no one wants to "give up" on their loved ones. in part because we have been taught that we are supposed to "fight" and "overcome" disease

It's something that parents should discuss with their children. Mom started a gradual decline about two years before she died; about 6 months before she passed, she had her defibrillator turned off and told me that she did not want to go back to the hospital. She passed peacefully in her sleep.

It's hard to let go, but in some cases, it's the kindest, most loving thing you can do, regardless of the insurance situation.

92tide · Jan 18, 2018

jthomas666 said:
It's something that parents should discuss with their children. Mom started a gradual decline about two years before she died; about 6 months before she passed, she had her defibrillator turned off and told me that she did not want to go back to the hospital. She passed peacefully in her sleep.

It's hard to let go, but in some cases, it's the kindest, most loving thing you can do, regardless of the insurance situation.

another situation that is sort of dicey, but i suspect happens quite a bit. old folks living in assisted living/nursing homes that are just tired of living/ready to go (e.g. bed ridden, loss of senses, miserable), but there are no extraordinary measures being taken to keep them alive.

Chukker Veteran · Jan 18, 2018

jthomas666 said:
It's something that parents should discuss with their children. Mom started a gradual decline about two years before she died; about 6 months before she passed, she had her defibrillator turned off and told me that she did not want to go back to the hospital. She passed peacefully in her sleep.

It's hard to let go, but in some cases, it's the kindest, most loving thing you can do, regardless of the insurance situation.

Thank you for that. I will reach that day, as I look after my Mother, who is 90. She is still of the mindset, if anything goes wrong with her health, she wants it fixed.

She has a doctor who is anxious to do everything possible, and he's been doing good at keeping her going. But check this out, he called all his hundreds of patients together in a big assembly room, and explained he had a new program. He was going to keep all his patients, but he wasn't making enough as things were going, so he was going to offer a premium status of patient for a couple of thousand bucks a year extra.

When the day comes that I say "We've done all we should," I'm expecting him to try to get me to do some more, but who knows.

CajunCrimson · Jan 18, 2018

Bazza said:
This is what I have been thinking. For the past 10-20 years or so as health insurance has been the big topic....why isn't anyone inquiring about the cost of health care itself?

Medical practitioners don't seem to be competing with each other as in other industries. That's also something I wonder about.

Competition is usually a good thing for the consumer in a general sense.

Medical Malpractice Insurance ......

Chukker Veteran · Jan 18, 2018

My Mother's buddy, at 89 discovered a lump in her breast. To my amazement, she had it surgically removed. She fell and broke her hip before the incision for the surgery had healed. Now she is scheduling, and I can't believe I'm typing this, a shoulder replacement operation. She says without the use of her left shoulder, she can't move her wheelchair. I suggested a motorized one, but she evidently things she will live forever, and needs her body in top working order.

Displaced Bama Fan · Jan 18, 2018

Chukker Veteran said:
Thank you for that. I will reach that day, as I look after my Mother, who is 90. She is still of the mindset, if anything goes wrong with her health, she wants it fixed.

She has a doctor who is anxious to do everything possible, and he's been doing good at keeping her going. But check this out, he called all his hundreds of patients together in a big assembly room, and explained he had a new program. He was going to keep all his patients, but he wasn't making enough as things were going, so he was going to offer a premium status of patient for a couple of thousand bucks a year extra.

When the day comes that I say "We've done all we should," I'm expecting him to try to get me to do some more, but who knows.

My old doc went to a preferred service as well. I walked away.

Displaced Bama Fan · Jan 18, 2018

Chukker Veteran said:
My Mother's buddy, at 89 discovered a lump in her breast. To my amazement, she had it surgically removed. She fell and broke her hip before the incision for the surgery had healed. Now she is scheduling, and I can't believe I'm typing this, a shoulder replacement operation. She says without the use of her left shoulder, she can't move her wheelchair. I suggested a motorized one, but she evidently things she will live forever, and needs her body in top working order.

And that's the kind of stuff that needs to be reconsidered. I don't get it.

After thinking about it, I almost wish, these types of surgeries were done at no charge by residents for training purposes.

Chukker Veteran · Jan 18, 2018

Displaced Bama Fan said:
After thinking about it, I almost wish, these types of surgeries were done at no charge by residents for training purposes.

That would do it.

jthomas666 · Jan 18, 2018

Displaced Bama Fan said:
My old doc went to a preferred service as well. I walked away.

That business model has been gaining steam for several years. I've no idea how medical care is impacted, but I'm sure the physicians' income has gone up.

Long-term health insurance premiums doubling and more

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