Some numbers showing the disparity in how Alabama is officiated
- Thread starter KrAzY3
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I haven't touched the type of fouls, but I do imagine that would be offer a lot of insight.
But (the following is not necessarily directed at you), I do think the rankings in and of themselves are interesting. When Alabama is dead last twice, and next to last another time over a four year stretch, I think everyone can concede that's not a random occurrence, right? So what I thought I'd look at is who else has been landing on the bottom ten of opponent penalty yards.
Military institutions show up on the bottom ten regularly over the past four seasons. Army showed up three times and they are the only other team that made the list three times. I can't really figure out any similarities to Army and Alabama though. Air Force makes one appearance and Navy makes two appearances. I kind of get the military institutes things, I mean who wants to play dirty against those teams?
There are a lot of plain old bad teams. One thing I was looking for is if any other elite teams over that period made an appearance. I don't note that occurring. I don't see Clemson, Ohio St., any of the programs having really good years (other than Alabama) making the list. What I do see though is teams like Charlotte, New Mexico, Georgia Southern, Kansas, Rice (twice), this certainly isn't a list of the best teams in college football.
There are SEC programs though, it's not just Alabama. LSU appears twice (but it was the past two seasons), Florida appears twice, Texas A&M, Georgia, Arkansas, Auburn, and Miss. St. all make appearances (though I would add in most those cases it involves fired head coaches). I find it rather interesting, since once you add Alabama it does make this look like somewhat of an SEC issue.
I would however, point back to the fact that this can't all just be about SEC refs throwing less flags. There's still a big gap in where one would expect opponent penalty yards to be and where they are, but it could be that at least some SEC games are being called differently.
Some of those schools you mention are pretty good within their peer group (I.e. Georgia Southern). The really bad teams could be low because their games turn into blowouts quickly and you get into game management mode.
One interesting way to look at this could be by conference. A supervisor may want some things called a little tighter than others (I.e. any slight flinch is a flag). And I would look more at the penalty yards or number of penalties than ranking because it will highlight any differences more. If the range is only 35 to 50 yards then the top and bottom ranked teams aren't that far apart. If I have some free time I may try to do that.
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One interesting way to look at this could be by conference. A supervisor may want some things called a little tighter than others (I.e. any slight flinch is a flag). And I would look more at the penalty yards or number of penalties than ranking because it will highlight any differences more. If the range is only 35 to 50 yards then the top and bottom ranked teams aren't that far apart. If I have some free time I may try to do that.
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I can see where how a game progresses can cause some differences in penalties. An example would be if Bama dominates time of possession and limits the snaps by the other team, the other team will have fewer opportunities for false starts, illegal formations, holding and other fouls common with the offense. Bama defense plays a lot of man coverage which may lead to a few more pass interference calls compared to others and also face teams that have to take shots to have a chance to compete or while playing catch-up. These may not be good examples but there could be some technical aspects in play.
I don't know enough about what penalties are more common but I do suspect there is something to the BiGTide's suggestion about stronger teams not getting the calls, even if it is sub-conscious by the refs.
I don't know enough about what penalties are more common but I do suspect there is something to the BiGTide's suggestion about stronger teams not getting the calls, even if it is sub-conscious by the refs.
What makes it somewhat inexplicable that there was a radical shift in penalties from 2010-2013 to 2014-2017.
That's what throws the whole thing off. Alabama was just about as dominant, their team played the same basic style of football. I'm welcoming to any data at all that offers an explanation, but the difference is somewhat jarring. For instance I can buy the idea that the SEC might be calling things differently, but that still doesn't explain Alabama's penalties going up while their opponent penalties went down. If anyone can pin down what types of calls are being made more often and not being made more often, then yeah may be we get closer to an explanation.
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I exported the list of opponent fouls for 2010-2017 to see if I could find any trends. For 2010-2013 P5 averaged 50.36 opponent yards and G5 averaged 51.25. For 2014-2017 the averages were 52.43 and 54.67 respectively. The difference is not significant, but both were up 2-3 yards for the second period. For the P5 conferences, the SEC was the lowest in both periods (46.41 and 46.62) and PAC12 was the highest in both (58.53 and 59.10). The gap may seem high, but it's only equivalent to 1-2 fouls per game. Since the data range is small, it's a better measure than just ranking. There were no G5 conferences below the SEC in average opponent penalties. Since most of your games (including non-conference games) are officiated by SEC officials, this tells me the SEC crews are either less likely to flag borderline calls and/or the teams commit fewer fouls than other conferences. But not by a significant difference.
Within the SEC, Auburn had the lowest average at 39.50 in 2010-2013 but Alabama was one spot above it at 40.68. Texas A&M was the highest at 56.10 opponent yards. In 2014-2017 Alabama had the smallest opponent yards at 37.45 with Georgia the next closest at 40.08. The highest was Ole Miss at 56.23 yards. Ole Miss was the biggest gainer at 12.73 yards while Texas A&M was the biggest loser at 8.43 yards.
From what I see the yardage difference is relatively small, and the SEC is the least penalized conference in the country.
Within the SEC, Auburn had the lowest average at 39.50 in 2010-2013 but Alabama was one spot above it at 40.68. Texas A&M was the highest at 56.10 opponent yards. In 2014-2017 Alabama had the smallest opponent yards at 37.45 with Georgia the next closest at 40.08. The highest was Ole Miss at 56.23 yards. Ole Miss was the biggest gainer at 12.73 yards while Texas A&M was the biggest loser at 8.43 yards.
From what I see the yardage difference is relatively small, and the SEC is the least penalized conference in the country.
The differences may seem small, but they are not. As a percentage, based only on your numbers: Alabama opponents @ 37.45 ypg, Ole Miss @ 56.23 ypg translates to Ole Miss opponents getting penalized for 150% of the yardage that Alabama opponents face. That is far from insignificant. And with the SEC average at 46.5 ypg across both periods, that meant at the average SEC team had its opponents get called for 25% more yardage in a game than Alabama - again, not insignificant.
Let's say you are correct in saying the differences aren't that large. Wouldn't that put more emphasis on the differences in penalties against Alabama compared to the other games a team played?
I think it's definitely an interesting data point and something I would be interested in looking into if I were the supervisor of officials. But if it ultimately is only a difference of 2-3 penalties per game over time, I wouldn't be concerned about it. We have some games with 6-8 fouls and some with 25+. If over the course of the season the difference is that small it wouldn't raise a serious red flag. If every opponent of Alabama had 3-4 fewer flags against Alabama than all their other games, that would be something I would want to look at deeper. It sounds like that is true based on another post. I'm pretty confident it's not a concerted effort by the conference or the officials, but it's possible the data could point to some trends. Everyone has conspiracy theories and they are always against their team. Its human nature.
Two possible theories I would start with. Blowouts tend to have fewer flags so if Alabama is pounding the lesser teams, it's possible the opponents are called for fewer fouls in those games than in their more competitive games. The other theory is the games with the top teams could have fewer flags because both teams are more focused and more disciplined than in the games where maybe they playing lesser teams closer than Alabama did.
So it would be a pretty complex deep dive to see if the data could tell trends. But the macro data discussed here is definitely worth a deeper analysis if for curiosity sake only.
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We are talking about over 700 yards over a 4 year stretch though! I get what you mean, oh just a little here or there, but it's basically death of a thousand cuts. You showed some of the splits, but not all of them. Alabama's penalties went up while their opponent penalties went down. If this barely moved the needle, ok fine. But it didn't, it's hundreds and hundreds of yards of penalties!
I agree, and actually take it further. There's no way to know how much difference we are talking. Stats show that something is happening, but cannot show a baseline from which to measure a difference. That would require us to assume that average is a baseline, but that assumption is unjustified. It could be that Bama opponents should be more heavily penalized than average. Random distortion varies around an average but systematic distortion sets up a whole other pattern. The fact that stats suggest systematic rather than random distortion is very problematic and should not be met with the reply, oh well, it's only a small deviation. That's impossible to know without a complete survey.
A friend shared this clip from several years ago by your coach. I think his comments are great!
https://youtu.be/WZ_KgbNyLvY
I'm glad most guys don't feel this way and leave the D1 level. Once you've made it that far you've invested enough time and energy the outside criticism doesn't affect you much. It's the newer guys working youth games with those parents right next to him that is causing the shortage.
As football season approaches (first college scrimmage assignment next week!) please consider getting involved as an official. It's not as bad as it sounds and you'll become an important part of this game we all love. If you are a college student or early in your career it's great side income to build a savings. And you have a chance to advance to D1 or NFL if you start early!
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https://youtu.be/WZ_KgbNyLvY
I'm glad most guys don't feel this way and leave the D1 level. Once you've made it that far you've invested enough time and energy the outside criticism doesn't affect you much. It's the newer guys working youth games with those parents right next to him that is causing the shortage.
As football season approaches (first college scrimmage assignment next week!) please consider getting involved as an official. It's not as bad as it sounds and you'll become an important part of this game we all love. If you are a college student or early in your career it's great side income to build a savings. And you have a chance to advance to D1 or NFL if you start early!
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Does the NCAA provide referees for any Alabama games?
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Never directly. Conferences hire officials and assign them to games. For non conference games the contract will dictate which conference will be used for officials. They sometimes use neutral conferences.
For the bowls/playoffs, a conference is assigned to each game and the conference then assigns the officials.
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Are there any "point of emphasis" penalties this year? Or any referee tidbits that have come from the officiating world that are note worthy?
The rule changes were covered in this topic: https://www.tidefans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295734
The points of emphases are safety related. This really isn't different for us but is a reminder for everyone else. Stay way form the head and don't use your head!
Probably the most impactful rule change will be the receiving team's ability to fair catch a free kick (i.e. kickoff or kick after safety) inside their own 25 and get the ball at the 25. It's another attempt to reduce the number of kick returns. The other big change is to help with time of game. After a TD a team will have 40 seconds like any other play to get their extra point team on the field and snap the ball. It still remains to be seen how that will happen with games involving replay since the replay official needs to confirm the score before the try. I imagine we'll see formal reviews if there is any question. A team will also only have 40 seconds after a kick off to get their offense on the field and run a play. A rule change that was passed last year but put into effect this year is knee pads need to cover the knee. Too many players were wearing bicycle shorts and the rules committee wanted them to use knee pads as they were designed.
There are a few other changes, but as fans you probably won't notice them much. They don't happen that often.
That's a good change. I never understood the tendency to want to expose the knee cap to a helmet to knee hit with the shorter pants.
The changes which are designed to shorten the game are sort of a joke, inasmuch as the networks simply fill any time freed up with more commercials...
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