The team without Collin Sexton.

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
Apr 1, 2004
21,101
16,383
282
Boone, NC
Would you be as patient with football? Would it be okay if they lost every other game as long as there is progress?

My whole issue with CAJ and Sexton/Petty is....that we seem to have sold our soul for a couple of divas who might take us to the promise land. I get the need for elite recruiting....I do. But to bring in two kids that have less than a 12 month commitment to the team is risky. And, thus far, the results are quite similar to the last few years...
Well, to be fair, IF we are ever going to get much beyond where we've been in recent years it'll mean having a regular dose of "one and done" guys. It's a different animal than football!

Also, we are in a weird spot this year with all this youth without many upper classmen to be leaders.

For what's it's worth, Petty shouldn't be thinking about being one and done but apparently, according to some, he is.
 

BAMAVILLE

Moderator (FB,BB,REC)
Staff member
Jan 9, 2014
6,198
5,872
237
Would you be as patient with football? Would it be okay if they lost every other game as long as there is progress?

My whole issue with CAJ and Sexton/Petty is....that we seem to have sold our soul for a couple of divas who might take us to the promise land. I get the need for elite recruiting....I do. But to bring in two kids that have less than a 12 month commitment to the team is risky. And, thus far, the results are quite similar to the last few years...
BamaMoon speaks the truth, this is the formula that leads to building a successful program in basketball. We not only need players like Sexton and Petty but we also need players like Herb, Reese and Smith. All of it goes into making a powerhouse program in basketball. Thats why the teams like Kentucky, Duke, UNC, Kansas, ect have been on top for the last decade. But its all about having elite players that may leave after a year or two and players that will develop into elite players before they leave. I'm excited the direction the program is headed, especially if they are able to turn this into a tourney appearance this year.

Also to BamaMoon's point, the only guy that I think should go pro is Sexton only because he's projected as a lottery pick (I personally hope he would stay to build on his skills as well), everyone else should come back and continue to build on their skills.
 

TrampLineman

Hall of Fame
Jul 21, 2010
7,287
6
57
Alabama
It's almost impossible to compete without one and done players.

The only way around it is the mid-major way, keep them for 4 years but you won't be good until their Junior/Senior years. I wouldn't quite say we "sold our soul" to bring Petty and Sexton in. I still have faith we will get better over the year and could be a deadly team come SECT time. I will say I would be disappointed if we don't make the tourney. There is no doubt we have to keep getting better. I'm not so sure now that Sexton is ready for the NBA and think the NBA will tell him he needs another year, but if he would do that who knows? If we can get one more year out of that duo with CAJ's recruiting we could be very very good with a legit inside player.

This year ain't over yet but I have faith they will find their niche
 

Rama Jama

All-American
Jan 4, 2011
3,304
241
82
Tuscaloosa
This is not a situation like we had with Grant. Players are improving from year to year. I did not see that under Grant. A player would come in and his best year would be his freshman year.

I think you do need some elite players in this day and age in college basketball, but the core of your team needs to be guys who have been there a few years who know the system. One of the problems we have now is most of best players this year are freshman. Everyone thought that this year would be the year we'd break out when in reality next year may be "our" year. I think Butler will make an immediate difference in our play.
 

BAMAVILLE

Moderator (FB,BB,REC)
Staff member
Jan 9, 2014
6,198
5,872
237
This is not a situation like we had with Grant. Players are improving from year to year. I did not see that under Grant. A player would come in and his best year would be his freshman year.

I think you do need some elite players in this day and age in college basketball, but the core of your team needs to be guys who have been there a few years who know the system. One of the problems we have now is most of best players this year are freshman. Everyone thought that this year would be the year we'd break out when in reality next year may be "our" year. I think Butler will make an immediate difference in our play.
Yeah, I figured that this year would be a year would have a good chance to make the big dance, but next year will be the year that established the trend of us having multiple runs to the big dance. Especially if the core guys stay. If everyone minus Sexton comes back, we should be pegged as a top 15 team. If Sexton comes back, would be surprised to see us ranked higher. First things first, we gotta make it out of this season :)
 

TideBall

BamaNation Citizen
Jan 17, 2015
39
0
0
Would you be as patient with football? Would it be okay if they lost every other game as long as there is progress?

My whole issue with CAJ and Sexton/Petty is....that we seem to have sold our soul for a couple of divas who might take us to the promise land. I get the need for elite recruiting....I do. But to bring in two kids that have less than a 12 month commitment to the team is risky. And, thus far, the results are quite similar to the last few years...
As others have said, basketball is very different than football for several reasons.
1. Basketball teams have far fewer players, so one or two elite players can have a much larger impact.
2. The NBA will draft elite players based on "potential" (even as early as High School) if they think they are good enough, since there may only be a handful of truly elite players in a 5 year period.
3. The smaller number of players (fewer coaches and smaller facilities as well) on a given team means that many more universities can have a real shot at winding up in the Great 8 than in football. The top 4 or 5 programs are there very often, but 3-4 others among another 50 universities rotate in to the mix on any given year.
4. While Alabama has a history of having very good basketball under both CM and Wimp, we have never been seen as being one of the elite 4 or 5 universities for basketball and this makes it very hard to compete on the same basis.

There clearly are real dangers in putting too much emphasis on ANY single player, until they have proven themselves at this level, both in terms of skill and the maturity to play for the team as well as themselves, but CAJ must recruit the best available players, then try to get them to see the value in being team players, even if it is just for a year. At the same time, he must recruit other players who will stay for 2-4 years and provide a basis for continuity.

It is not yet completely clear how well Sexton and the rest of the players can play together as a team, but they still have time to show what they can do, starting with this Saturday. If Sexton and our team goes into Saturday focused on it being "Sexton versus Young", we are in trouble. If Sexton and the rest of the team commit to playing as a team to beat Oklahoma, we have a decent chance to beat them on our home court.

Along with everything else, I think it took CAJ a couple of years to adjust from NBA to college coaching. We need to give him a couple more years to see if he can find one of the magic combinations to make things good enough for a solid run in the NCAA tourney.
 

CajunCrimson

Moderator (FB,BB) and Vinyl Enthusiast
Staff member
Mar 13, 2001
26,770
21,538
337
Breaux Bridge, La
Yeah, I figured that this year would be a year would have a good chance to make the big dance, but next year will be the year that established the trend of us having multiple runs to the big dance. Especially if the core guys stay. If everyone minus Sexton comes back, we should be pegged as a top 15 team. If Sexton comes back, would be surprised to see us ranked higher. First things first, we gotta make it out of this season :)
We’ve been on the “next year” plan for a while now.....it’s like Groundhog Day around Coleman and we are being sold insurance while standing in a puddle of water
 

CajunCrimson

Moderator (FB,BB) and Vinyl Enthusiast
Staff member
Mar 13, 2001
26,770
21,538
337
Breaux Bridge, La
As others have said, basketball is very different than football for several reasons.
1. Basketball teams have far fewer players, so one or two elite players can have a much larger impact.
2. The NBA will draft elite players based on "potential" (even as early as High School) if they think they are good enough, since there may only be a handful of truly elite players in a 5 year period.
3. The smaller number of players (fewer coaches and smaller facilities as well) on a given team means that many more universities can have a real shot at winding up in the Great 8 than in football. The top 4 or 5 programs are there very often, but 3-4 others among another 50 universities rotate in to the mix on any given year.
4. While Alabama has a history of having very good basketball under both CM and Wimp, we have never been seen as being one of the elite 4 or 5 universities for basketball and this makes it very hard to compete on the same basis.

There clearly are real dangers in putting too much emphasis on ANY single player, until they have proven themselves at this level, both in terms of skill and the maturity to play for the team as well as themselves, but CAJ must recruit the best available players, then try to get them to see the value in being team players, even if it is just for a year. At the same time, he must recruit other players who will stay for 2-4 years and provide a basis for continuity.

It is not yet completely clear how well Sexton and the rest of the players can play together as a team, but they still have time to show what they can do, starting with this Saturday. If Sexton and our team goes into Saturday focused on it being "Sexton versus Young", we are in trouble. If Sexton and the rest of the team commit to playing as a team to beat Oklahoma, we have a decent chance to beat them on our home court.

Along with everything else, I think it took CAJ a couple of years to adjust from NBA to college coaching. We need to give him a couple more years to see if he can find one of the magic combinations to make things good enough for a solid run in the NCAA tourney.
You can’t draft from high school anymore since 2006
It’s called the Elite Eight.....

And I stopped reading after that.... sorry

Yes, I’m grumpy today....
 

bodiddle

All-SEC
May 14, 2006
1,338
0
0
We’ve been on the “next year” plan for a while now.....it’s like Groundhog Day around Coleman and we are being sold insurance while standing in a puddle of water
Yep, after three years of the same ole, I often wonder if it will really be better next year.
 

RKel32

All-SEC
Nov 17, 2004
1,186
5
57
Madison, AL
If there's one thing you can count on every year, it's the "fans" who come in late January with hot takes without actually understanding the game.

Yes, we should totally bench a future lottery pick.
/s

FWIW, here are the PER for our guards who have at least one start (not going to bother with AJ whose stats are worse than Schaeffer):

Sexton 23.4
Ingram 16.4
Petty 12.8
Jones 11.2

And here are their true shooting percentages:

Sexton 55.6%
Petty 55.4%
Ingram 54.0%
Jones 49.4%

And their Win Shares:

Sexton 2.3
Ingram 2.0
Petty 1.3
Jones 0.9

I could keep going, but the fact is, Sexton is our most important player. Is he a truly ready to start at PG in the NBA at this point? No. Is his usage rate probably a little too high? Yep. Is your argument ridiculous? Absolutely.
 

BAMAVILLE

Moderator (FB,BB,REC)
Staff member
Jan 9, 2014
6,198
5,872
237
We’ve been on the “next year” plan for a while now.....it’s like Groundhog Day around Coleman and we are being sold insurance while standing in a puddle of water
We have been getting better as a team plus getting in better talent all at the same time playing better competition. Its been some years since we've had a schedule that given us an RPI this high while having the same amount of wins ... we're trending in a positive direction as a program as a whole.
 

CrimSonami

All-American
Jul 17, 2011
3,052
1,974
187
Ardmore, AL; too close to 10erC
Sexton is playing "out of control" when he's driving the basket. His speed alone served him well in HS but that obviously doesn't work at this level. Until such time as CAJ gets him to play more balanced and controlled he should concentrate on using his quickness to generate the 12-15 foot shot and dishing for assists. Ingram should be our primary PG at this point.

JMHO
 

RKel32

All-SEC
Nov 17, 2004
1,186
5
57
Madison, AL
Sexton is playing "out of control" when he's driving the basket. His speed alone served him well in HS but that obviously doesn't work at this level. Until such time as CAJ gets him to play more balanced and controlled he should concentrate on using his quickness to generate the 12-15 foot shot and dishing for assists. Ingram should be our primary PG at this point.

JMHO
Agreed. It's part of the learning process. I think he's pressing a little too much, trying to put his mark on the game, and sometimes it gets him into bad spots. The flip side is, he's drawing a lot of fouls that lead to his averaging 7.7 FTA/game, while shooting over 80% from the FT line.
 

BamaMike05

All-American
Jul 4, 2009
2,187
1,362
187
42
Huntsville, Alabama, United States
If only we were 4-1 in our last 5 games, with our only loss being against a team that is undefeated at home in SEC play, then we might be showing some signs of progress. Maybe we can hit a win streak this year or something. [emoji849] (Blue Font)..... relax and let the season play out. We are slated to make the tournament right now according to Joe Lunardi and Jerry Palm. Our RPI and KenPom numbers are great. We are fine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

CajunCrimson

Moderator (FB,BB) and Vinyl Enthusiast
Staff member
Mar 13, 2001
26,770
21,538
337
Breaux Bridge, La
If there's one thing you can count on every year, it's the "fans" who come in late January with hot takes without actually understanding the game.

Yes, we should totally bench a future lottery pick.
/s

FWIW, here are the PER for our guards who have at least one start (not going to bother with AJ whose stats are worse than Schaeffer):

Sexton 23.4
Ingram 16.4
Petty 12.8
Jones 11.2

And here are their true shooting percentages:

Sexton 55.6%
Petty 55.4%
Ingram 54.0%
Jones 49.4%

And their Win Shares:

Sexton 2.3
Ingram 2.0
Petty 1.3
Jones 0.9

I could keep going, but the fact is, Sexton is our most important player. Is he a truly ready to start at PG in the NBA at this point? No. Is his usage rate probably a little too high? Yep. Is your argument ridiculous? Absolutely.
I sure as heck hope you aren’t referring to me....because if you are, you don’t read this board very often.

Don’t care what his scoring avg is if we don’t win.
 

dayhiker

FB|BB Moderator
Staff member
Dec 8, 2000
8,782
4,051
337
Pell City, AL
This topic came up on the OU TV broadcast. They talked about how it was being discussed on Bama boards and blogs. I wonder if they were talking about Tidefans?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

BAMAVILLE

Moderator (FB,BB,REC)
Staff member
Jan 9, 2014
6,198
5,872
237
We are definitely better with Sexton in the lineup. You could tell Wednesday that he was pressing a little too much after being out. He showed why he is our starting PG today.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
He still has room for improvement of course but ummm ... yeah :)
 

New Posts

Latest threads

TideFans.shop - NEW Stuff!

TideFans.shop - Get YOUR Bama Gear HERE!”></a>
<br />

<!--/ END TideFans.shop & item link \-->
<p style= Purchases made through our TideFans.shop and Amazon.com links may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.