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News Article: At least 16 football players have been accused of sexual assault at Mich. ST.

CrimsonNagus

CrimsonNagus

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Title IX is part of the problem. It gives the schools way too much power over these incidents. They are basically judge, jury and executioner. Title IX actually gives these schools the right to not get law enforcement involved. I think that is wrong, schools should be required to involve law enforcement.


If the Emmert and NCAA knew and didn’t attempt to get the proper authorities involved, than what is the point in having this organization? If the NCAA isn’t worried about policing its members then they serve no purpose. I’m not talking about the NCAA doing an investigation but, if they receive a complaint they should work with local law enforcement to make sure the matter is handled correctly. This mindset in this country that the schools will do the right thing has to end. Schools only care about themselves so, a third party must be involved to force there hand.

I’m going to teach my kids to not trust the school administration. Call us and the police, not the school.
 
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crimsonaudio

crimsonaudio

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RTR91 said:
The possible issue for the NCAA - how do we know the player wouldn't remain eligible?
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In situations like this, it would be about the university not following the proper steps, not about pure eligibility. I don't mean the NCAA should be proactive about situations like this, but instead it would be reactive.

I think it's safe to assume that the school are ignoring these cases involving student-athletes in order to remain competitive.
 
rgw

rgw

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Sep 15, 2003
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The NCAA is a competition body so disparity in enforcement of Title IX is a praxis for the NCAA's involvement in these cases. They need clarity and mandates from the member schools to really go down that path though.
 
TomFromBama

TomFromBama

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Re: Report: At least 16 football players have been accused of sexual assault at Michi

LA4Bama said:
Before jumping to conclusions I'd recommend reading the original OTL article. It has an actual description of each incident. Some are unsavoury but most of the football related ones relate what I would call unfortunately "typical" college scenes. They were dealt with by the campus police. And it even says they don't know if dantonio was ever told. In other words, the very article this is based on does not say the coaches covered it up. It doesn't say anyone covered it up. There is nothing that says coaches covered up stuff. And the one incident where dantonio was involved, all the players were kicked off the team. It says in the other cases that the school didn't published details (and why would the school do that in a case that involves privacy?). The subsequent feeding frenzy is media at its worst. Having said that, I'm not sure what to make of the BB stuff and Izzo. Gonna wait to see on that.
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Respectfully- perhaps you missed this part:

"Yet former Michigan State sexual assault counselor Lauren Allswede, who left the university in 2015 over frustrations about how administrators handled sexual assault cases, told Outside the Lines that MSU administrators' entire approach to such cases has been misguided for years. The biggest issue? Complaints involving athletes were routinely investigated and handled by athletic director Hollis' department, and sometimes even coaches, she says.

"Whatever protocol or policy was in place, whatever frontline staff might normally be involved in response or investigation, it all got kind of swept away and it was handled more by administration [and] athletic department officials," says Allswede, who worked at MSU for seven years. "It was all happening behind closed doors. ... None of it was transparent or included people who would normally be involved in certain decisions."

I agree COMPLETELY with your characterization of most of the "incidents" in the list in the article - but that list is only incidents involving football players where the police were involved (part of ESPN's open records request). You can rest assured there were many others where the Athletic Department was able to prevent police involvement - that was certainly Fulmer's "M.O." for years at Tennessee.
 
B

BamaMan09

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Re: Report: At least 16 football players have been accused of sexual assault at Michi

Didn't Tennessee have a linebacker named A.J. Johnson who was involved in a rape case a few years ago that somehow got swept under the rug ?
 
TomFromBama

TomFromBama

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rgw said:
NCAA will never have jurisdiction to punish for this stuff because every school fears they will be caught up in it at some point. So long as we have a culture that kinda creates this pressure cooker of circumstances for college students regarding alcohol, sex, and personal choice, universities regardless of stature will have problems with sexual assault on campus and be paralyzed by parsing truth out of he-said-she-said scenarios.

We ain't fixing this college sexual assault problem without fixing how we educate our boys and girls before they ever get to be young men and women. So long as we have a prohibition-based culture on sex and alcohol, we are doomed to send our kids off to college ill-equipped to come to grips with these things before they have to make choices on their own. For the most part, as a society we have failed our children on this sexual assault stuff by a host of "degrees removed" things before we hand them off to universities who are having to navigate the mess while trying to keep the institution on the rails.
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Huh? Exactly where in America is there a "prohibition culture on sex and alcohol"? If you mean a culture where young people are taught about actual morality, well, I'm sorry if this is "news" to you or anyone else, but that culture doesn't really exist in most of America. Perhaps in some small, rural, Southern towns and suburbs, but outside of those isolated examples, there is not "prohibition culture" - at least not THAT kind of prohibition culture - in America (or in Alabama, for that matter).

IMO, there's a massive "Denial" culture among parents who don't want to think that their little "princes" and "princesses" are drinking drugging and "copulating", because thinking about it would mean they'd need to actually teach their children about those things - and maybe that's what you mean? If so, then yes, I agree.

But what's really happening? Well, go to nearly any suburban or urban High School in America and see how much "prohibition" there really is.

The bulk of the teenagers in America are being "raised" by peers and the "popular culture", much more so than by parents. Most are living in situations with one or NO actual "Parents" involved in their lives. And now, some 50+ years into the moral destruction of our country, its multi-generational: grandparents (some of them only 36-38 years old) who themselves were raised with no meaningful parental guidance, are now raising their grandchildren while their 20 & 30-something children continue to live a "Lord of the Flies" lifestyle.

None of this excuses any University covering up the misdeeds of athletes - if anything, it makes the coverup all the more heinous when you consider the mentality of many of the people on our college campuses today.
 
RTR91

RTR91

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For future reference - sometimes reading a thread to see if a post has been addressed before replying is helpful. Let's keep the topic here as non-sports as possible. There's already a thread on the NS board discussing this.
 
TomFromBama

TomFromBama

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Re: Report: At least 16 football players have been accused of sexual assault at Michi

BamaMan09 said:
Didn't Tennessee have a linebacker named A.J. Johnson who was involved in a rape case a few years ago that somehow got swept under the rug ?
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Actually, it was quite a few who "allegedly" were involved in such activities. One example was Antwan Stewart, who "allegedly" raped a mentally impaired minor in his dorm room. Fulmer immediately lept into action, grabbing his personal attorney and immediately racing to the home of the only witness - another minor female - and "explaining" to her family how it wouldn't be in their "best interest" for their daughter to talk to the police.

She kept quiet, and no charges were ever filed. Stewart never missed a single play for UcheaT over the "alleged" rape.

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone at UA - but None of this stuff is new, and we'd be incredibly naive to think that NOTHING like this could ever have happened in Tuscaloosa. UA doesn't have the best history in these kinds of matters........
(https://www.buzzfeed.com/katiejmbaker/how-accusing-a-powerful-man-of-rape-drove-a-college-student?utm_term=.xl4a6mz8MM#.hmZ5Evog00)
 
Padreruf

Padreruf

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TomFromBama said:
Huh? Exactly where in America is there a "prohibition culture on sex and alcohol"? If you mean a culture where young people are taught about actual morality, well, I'm sorry if this is "news" to you or anyone else, but that culture doesn't really exist in most of America. Perhaps in some small, rural, Southern towns and suburbs, but outside of those isolated examples, there is not "prohibition culture" - at least not THAT kind of prohibition culture - in America (or in Alabama, for that matter).

IMO, there's a massive "Denial" culture among parents who don't want to think that their little "princes" and "princesses" are drinking drugging and "copulating", because thinking about it would mean they'd need to actually teach their children about those things - and maybe that's what you mean? If so, then yes, I agree.

But what's really happening? Well, go to nearly any suburban or urban High School in America and see how much "prohibition" there really is.

The bulk of the teenagers in America are being "raised" by peers and the "popular culture", much more so than by parents. Most are living in situations with one or NO actual "Parents" involved in their lives. And now, some 50+ years into the moral destruction of our country, its multi-generational: grandparents (some of them only 36-38 years old) who themselves were raised with no meaningful parental guidance, are now raising their grandchildren while their 20 & 30-something children continue to live a "Lord of the Flies" lifestyle.

None of this excuses any University covering up the misdeeds of athletes - if anything, it makes the coverup all the more heinous when you consider the mentality of many of the people on our college campuses today.
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Unfortunately you are correct from my perspective. As a now retired minister I just cannot believe the total breakdown of the family...even where both parents are present so often I see parents wanting to be their children's friend rather than their parent. Values? Ethics? Forget it. We will pay the price, to be sure...
 
L

LA4Bama

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Re: Report: At least 16 football players have been accused of sexual assault at Michi

TomFromBama said:
Respectfully- perhaps you missed this part:

"Yet former Michigan State sexual assault counselor Lauren Allswede, who left the university in 2015 over frustrations about how administrators handled sexual assault cases, told Outside the Lines that MSU administrators' entire approach to such cases has been misguided for years. The biggest issue? Complaints involving athletes were routinely investigated and handled by athletic director Hollis' department, and sometimes even coaches, she says.

"Whatever protocol or policy was in place, whatever frontline staff might normally be involved in response or investigation, it all got kind of swept away and it was handled more by administration [and] athletic department officials," says Allswede, who worked at MSU for seven years. "It was all happening behind closed doors. ... None of it was transparent or included people who would normally be involved in certain decisions."

I agree COMPLETELY with your characterization of most of the "incidents" in the list in the article - but that list is only incidents involving football players where the police were involved (part of ESPN's open records request). You can rest assured there were many others where the Athletic Department was able to prevent police involvement - that was certainly Fulmer's "M.O." for years at Tennessee.
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No, I didn't miss that. That person's comments were on the whole directed towards the BB team, which is why I said in my post, "Having said that, I'm not sure what to make of the BB stuff and Izzo. Gonna wait to see on that." I do not think the situation is cut and dry either way. I'm fine with the decision by the Michigan AG to investigate. One wonders if he ought not be investigating the local police instead of (or as well as) the university. I hope there is a fair, non-political investigation that will get to the bottom of things, though I doubt a fair verdict would satisfy the potentially biased parties on either side. I find ESPN's coverage of this to be tendentious.
 
TomFromBama

TomFromBama

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Re: Report: At least 16 football players have been accused of sexual assault at Michi

LA4Bama said:
No, I didn't miss that. That person's comments were on the whole directed towards the BB team, which is why I said in my post, "Having said that, I'm not sure what to make of the BB stuff and Izzo. Gonna wait to see on that." I do not think the situation is cut and dry either way. I'm fine with the decision by the Michigan AG to investigate. One wonders if he ought not be investigating the local police instead of (or as well as) the university. I hope there is a fair, non-political investigation that will get to the bottom of things, though I doubt a fair verdict would satisfy the potentially biased parties on either side. I find ESPN's coverage of this to be tendentious.
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Apologies for my misunderstanding! And I agree about the point you raise re. the Police department. I agree in the hopes of a fair investigation.

And i agree about ESPiN, but then again, I think the same thing about virtually all "news" these days...... ;)
 
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