Poll: How good was Bobby Bowden?

I voted great. A few kicks cost his teams dearly and are the only reason that this could be considered remotely questionable.

Perhaps we should answer this question with a question, then it should be pretty clear for those who doubt Bowden's resume.

How good was Florida State before he took the helm?


Case closed.

B1GTide said:

I voted great. A few kicks cost his teams dearly and are the only reason that this could be considered remotely questionable.

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LOL!! Last time I checked, Special Teams were still part of the game!

Hey, "a few kicks" cost us the #1 ranking and very nearly cost us a shot at the NC in 2011, and "a few kicks" DID cost us a shot at a Three-Peat in 2013. We didn't get a "Moral Victory" trophy in 2013 due to missing a NC shot "Just" because of "a few kicks"!!

BamaInBham said:

I guess it's how you want to look at it, but IMO, it is much harder to win a NC now. You have to have a great regular season, then win 2 games against top 4 teams.

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RollTide_HTTR said:

It's kind of a mixed bag. It's easier to get into the playoffs than it was to get into the BCS NCG but its harder to win it once you're there since you have to beat 2 teams instead of 1.

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If you are one of the best teams in the country it's easier to get in now.

Before, with the conference bowl tie in games, you could be one of the best teams, but draw a lousy matchup, and that hurt you. If nothing else, the poll era had trouble producing the best two teams playing each other at the end.

Now the system sets up better for the better teams and since FSU was consistently one of the better teams I think they would have won more NC especially with a 4 team playoff.

37bamagreats55 said:

Perhaps we should answer this question with a question, then it should be pretty clear for those who doubt Bowden's resume.

How good was Florida State before he took the helm?


Case closed.

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Good point. Back then, I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to say Fla St might have been a team we played the week before Auburn. They weren’t always bad (I remember a 37-37 tie with Bama), but scheduling teams like Fla St, Clemson, and Miami got the Bama fans rolling their eyes a little bit.

BamaInBham said:

FSU's schedule during the 14 year run from 87-2000: Ranked teams per year: 5.2, Top 10: 3.0, Top 5: 1.7
Bama schedule during the 10 year run from 08-2017: Ranked teams per year: 6.8, Top 10: 3.4, Top 5: 2.1

The difference is not that great, especially in the regular season. Bama's schedule "toughness" is bolstered by playing more postseason games, thus highly ranked teams, than FSU's at that time: 2-3 games vs 1. It is a myth that FSU played a 2 game schedule. That's not to say that Coach Saban's teams haven't performed better in the big games. But you can say that vs any other coach in history.

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I do not believe, and this is opinion obviously, that Bobby Bowden's FSU teams ever faced as many opponents in a given year that were truly on a competitive level with them as Nick Saban's Alabama teams have. Rankings be damned. During the 1990s, the heyday of Bowden's run, Miami and Florida were the only two teams he faced in a given year that had a legit shot to beat him. Any other losses he had back then have to be considered major upsets (1993 Notre Dame excepted). And indeed there were very few! But this would not have been the case had Florida State joined the SEC instead of the ACC, even back then when the conference wasn't what it became in the 2000s. While I am not arguing that if you could theoretically drop FSU into the SEC back then that he still wouldn't have been fielding the most talented team in the league, the gap would have been much narrower.

That's the argument I'm making. There is nothing like the SEC monster that Nick Saban has had to overcome for the past decade. His teams have faced far more NFL talent week after week than Coach Bowden's did back in the day.

In conclusion, I think he is a top 10 all time coach. I just don't buy that he's top 5. Maybe top 10 is good enough to be "great." I just think, with the talent advantage he built up, he should have had more NCs. ​Maybe I've been massively spoiled by Nick Saban.

TomFromBama said:

LOL!! Last time I checked, Special Teams were still part of the game!

Hey, "a few kicks" cost us the #1 ranking and very nearly cost us a shot at the NC in 2011, and "a few kicks" DID cost us a shot at a Three-Peat in 2013. We didn't get a "Moral Victory" trophy in 2013 due to missing a NC shot "Just" because of "a few kicks"!!

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Agreed, just saying that kicks cost him national championships. But even without them, he was clearly better than "above average".

I voted underachiever because I felt like he should have won a few more national titles. I do think the middle of his run was a great run though. He just stayed around too long and shouldn't have whined so much about Alabama playing Miami for the title in 92.

I'm sure somebody is willing to look. But using the AP as the standard, how many times would FSU had been ranked in the top four at the end of the regular season? This would be before the bowl games, but would indicate about as close as possible to how many times they might have been in the CFP.

Seems like I remember them having about 8-10 straight years of finishing in the top 5 at in end of the year AP.

A above average coach may have great year or two, but they will be interspersed with down years. Any coach that has a 14 year run with at most 2 losses a year and a win percentage of 89% is clearly a GREAT coach for a long time. I would consider Richt an above average coach.

Now Bowden has a 74% win percentage, which by itself puts him in an above average category. But Bowden did start at West Virginia, which is not exactly the easiest place to win. And he did have a 62% win percentage there vs. 60% for West Virginia historically, so he was better but not great yet. His move to a middling Florida State team shows you that he could really turn a team around too.

Additionally remember he had a 40 year run of coaching. How many head coaches last 5 years? 10 years? 15 years? Coaching well for 40 years by itself is lends him to be a great coach.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/bobby-bowden-1.html

I haven't looked up the pre-bowl ranking, but he was in the top 4, 13 years straight.

mdb-tpet said:

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/bobby-bowden-1.html

I haven't looked up the pre-bowl ranking, but he was in the top 4, 13 years straight.

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https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/florida-state/polls.html

It looks like 9 years of the 14, FSU could have been in the Playoffs

87
88
92
93
96
97
98
99
2000

BamaMoon said:

Got to remember that before the BCS it was harder to win a title than it is now.

I have a feeling FSU would have been in a lot more NC games with our current setup and probably would have won a couple more.

I also think Bama would have made him an even better coach....iron sharpening iron.

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Had we hired him then we don't have Saban now.

crimsonaudio said:

FSU's AP poll finish by year:
1987: #2
1988: #3
1989: #3
1990: #4
1991: #4
1992: #2
1993: #1
1994: #4
1995: #4
1996: #3
1997: #3
1998: #3
1999: #1
2000: #5

13 straight finishes in the AP top 4...

Some of y'all, LOL...

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mdb-tpet said:

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/florida-state/polls.html

It looks like 9 years of the 14, FSU could have been in the Playoffs

87
88
92
93
96
97
98
99
2000

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It's not a straight up apples to apples comparison, but his end of the year ranking at FSU is basically what CNS has done here.

I'd say that's straight up impressive!

Bobby Bowden is a great coach who would have won multiple championships at Alabama. That would have put him in elite company. Is he the best coach of all time? Nope. Is he top ten? Clearly he is.

Part of what he has to be given credit for is what he turned that program into. You look at the before and after, and it's pretty amazing. He took a program with no history, that had never managed better than 8 wins, and turns them into consistent championship contenders. One of the greatest of all time, and if you really survey the landscape after Bryant... if you remove Saban from the equation, he has to be in the running for the top spot.

KrAzY3 said:

Bobby Bowden is a great coach who would have won multiple championships at Alabama. That would have put him in elite company. Is he the best coach of all time? Nope. Is he top ten? Clearly he is.

Part of what he has to be given credit for is what he turned that program into. You look at the before and after, and it's pretty amazing. He took a program with no history, that had never managed better than 8 wins, and turns them into consistent championship contenders. One of the greatest of all time, and if you really survey the landscape after Bryant... if you remove Saban from the equation, he has to be in the running for the top spot.

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Your post says it all. He was a great coach that built that program. I don't think he was the best ever but definitely top 10. I love listening to his radio/TV interviews. I have grown to appreciate him more and more since he retired.