Poll: How good was Bobby Bowden?

with all the talent he had for so long, i'd say he actually underachieved in winning only 2 NCs.

81usaf92 said:

Selma's 90's revisited threads have got me thinking of how good Bowden really was. I really have this feeling that Bowden was the Emmitt Smith of college football coaches in that he was above average, but just continued to play until the record was his. I think also Bowden's success really depended on Miami being down, and one of his championships (93) had so many bogus calls. Then his legitimate championship I believe he was gift wrapped VT instead of playing Nebraska, Michigan, and Bama.

I think he was above average, but FSU apologists continue to try to sell me that he has done more with less than CNS, Urban Meyer, and Coach bryant.

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Was he a great coach - an emphatic yes. Was he the greatest - no. Did more with less his first ~25 years, then less with more the last 10-15. Probably top 5-10.

I always found an odd, circular logic about FSU and the ACC years ago...the ACC was a premier conference because it had the best team in FSU which was the best team because it dominated a premier conference...

CajunCrimson said:

Year Record AP or Coaches Poll Rank Championships Bowl
1987 11–1 2nd Won Fiesta
1988 11–1 3rd Won Sugar
1989 10–2 3rd Won Fiesta
1990 10–2 4th Won Blockbuster
1991 11–2 4th Won Cotton
1992 11–1 2nd ACC Champions Won Orange
1993 12–1 1st ACC Champions, National Champions Won Orange
1994 10–1–1 4th ACC Champions Won Sugar
1995 10–2 4th ACC Co-Champions Won Orange
1996 11–1 3rd ACC Champions Lost Sugar
1997 11–1 3rd ACC Champions Won Sugar
1998 11–2 3rd ACC Co-Champions Lost Fiesta
1999 12–0 1st ACC Champions, National Champions Won Sugar
2000 11–2 4th ACC Champions Lost Orange'

Top 5 for 14 years straight ain't too shabby

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I'd say this about speaks for itself. The records look like what Coach Saban is stringing together - albeit with a few less NC than our coach has.

He had such an easy path by going with the ACC. FSU finished in the top 5 so many years in a row because they always played a 2 game schedule. Miami and Florida. Then Miami imploded in the mid-90s. But only playing that 2 game schedule and they only won 2 NCs during all those years?

No, I do not count him among the greatest. He is nowhere near Nick Saban's league because he didn't face the schedules Coach Saban has. Now, had he won 5 or 6 titles, I'd reconsider my position. He is in that next tier, behind the greatest of all time.

81usaf92 said:

Selma's 90's revisited threads have got me thinking of how good Bowden really was. I really have this feeling that Bowden was the Emmitt Smith of college football coaches in that he was above average, but just continued to play until the record was his. I think also Bowden's success really depended on Miami being down, and one of his championships (93) had so many bogus calls. Then his legitimate championship I believe he was gift wrapped VT instead of playing Nebraska, Michigan, and Bama.

I think he was above average, but FSU apologists continue to try to sell me that he has done more with less than CNS, Urban Meyer, and Coach bryant.

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I guess its sort of a matter of semantics. I clicked on "above average", but only because I have a VERY lofty standard of what constitutes "Great".

But by almost any metric imaginable, Bobby had an amazing career full of amazing accomplishments - and frankly, I don't think anyone could rationally exclude him from any list of the Top-20 or 30 CFB coaches of all time. And we could probably make several arguments for him being on a Top-10 all time list.

Who knows how many NC's he might have won in the current "P_ayoff" era when even the Fourth "Best" team gets a shot at the title?

Yes, he did "more with less" than some other coaches...... at first. But by the latter 80's he was recruiting "lights out" and pretty much getting his pick of the cream of Southeastern talent. We didn't have all the widely circulated "recruiting ratings" then like we have now, but I suspect that from around '86-88 through 2000-'04-ish he very seldom signed a class outside the top-5 or so.....

So yea, "Great" in a lot of respects - but can we really say he was better than his peers? the leading coaches of the '80's and '90's? Did he really have more success than Barry Switzer, or Jimmy Johnson, or Dennis Erikson, or Tom Osborne? Or did he just stick around longer?

I will classify him as a great coach that underachieved to some extent. I put him as great in that a non-great coach doesn't win 10+ games a year and finish in the top 5 for 14 starlight years. I put him as underachieving in that will all those great teams he had he only 1 NC. Now the only caveat to that is that the NC during his time was very subjected/opinionated. Had the BCS and/or Playoffs been in place during his prime years, he would more than likely have several more NC's. So that has to be taken into consideration. Without the BCS / Playoff Saban would only have 1 NC more than likely (2009). His 2003, 2011, 2012, 2015, and 2017 teams all entered postseason play ranked 2nd or lower. So back to Bowden, it's hard to tell what his teams would've done if given the chance to play on for an NC.

Being above average for a little while is easy. Being the best once or twice can be a matter of luck. Being above average for a really long time, and the best once in a while, that is a form of greatness.

I always felt he was a great coach and would have been even greater at Alabama.

Got to remember that before the BCS it was harder to win a title than it is now.

I have a feeling FSU would have been in a lot more NC games with our current setup and probably would have won a couple more.

I also think Bama would have made him an even better coach....iron sharpening iron.

jabcmb said:

I always felt he was a great coach and would have been even greater at Alabama.

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I have always considered Joab Thomas' villainy in sabotaging the December 1986 Coaching Hire to be one of the darkest moments in Alabama football history, at least up to that time...... We certainly had worse setbacks later. Still, that was an absolute disaster and a huge missed opportunity, "IMO"

81usaf92 said:

Okay what about this coach?



Ill give you a hint. Everyone in the SEC calls him one of the greatest underachievers or chokers of all time. But the point is he played a way harder schedule than Bobby. But Bobby always choked when Miami came in with a good to great team.

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but richt had some really bad losses to bad teams in those 9-4, 8-5, 6-7, and 8-5 (and some of his other seasons too) seasons. he would have his standard choke job against a strong team pretty much every season, then in several seasons he followed with more choke jobs against teams that shouldn't have had a chance, not to mention several close calls.

but i may be a bit biased.

92tide said:

but richt had some really bad losses to bad teams in those 9-4, 8-5, 6-7, and 8-5 (and some of his other seasons too) seasons. he would have his standard choke job against a strong team pretty much every season, then in several seasons he followed with more choke jobs against teams that shouldn't have had a chance, not to mention several close calls.

but i may be a bit biased.

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A bit biased? Calling you a bit biased when it comes to hating on UGA is like saying the wind is blowing “a bit” during a category 5 hurricane.

TideEngineer08 said:

He had such an easy path by going with the ACC. FSU finished in the top 5 so many years in a row because they always played a 2 game schedule. Miami and Florida. Then Miami imploded in the mid-90s. But only playing that 2 game schedule and they only won 2 NCs during all those years?

No, I do not count him among the greatest. He is nowhere near Nick Saban's league because he didn't face the schedules Coach Saban has. Now, had he won 5 or 6 titles, I'd reconsider my position. He is in that next tier, behind the greatest of all time.

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FSU's schedule during the 14 year run from 87-2000: Ranked teams per year: 5.2, Top 10: 3.0, Top 5: 1.7
Bama schedule during the 10 year run from 08-2017: Ranked teams per year: 6.8, Top 10: 3.4, Top 5: 2.1

The difference is not that great, especially in the regular season. Bama's schedule "toughness" is bolstered by playing more postseason games, thus highly ranked teams, than FSU's at that time: 2-3 games vs 1. It is a myth that FSU played a 2 game schedule. That's not to say that Coach Saban's teams haven't performed better in the big games. But you can say that vs any other coach in history.

BamaMoon said:

Got to remember that before the BCS it was harder to win a title than it is now.

I have a feeling FSU would have been in a lot more NC games with our current setup and probably would have won a couple more.

I also think Bama would have made him an even better coach....iron sharpening iron.

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I guess it's how you want to look at it, but IMO, it is much harder to win a NC now. You have to have a great regular season, then win 2 games against top 4 teams.

BamaInBham said:

I guess it's how you want to look at it, but IMO, it is much harder to win a NC now. You have to have a great regular season, then win 2 games against top 4 teams.

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It's kind of a mixed bag. It's easier to get into the playoffs than it was to get into the BCS NCG but its harder to win it once you're there since you have to beat 2 teams instead of 1.