Bama Bball is so confusing

RTR91 said:

You continue to say there's no improvement. The stats I posted suggests otherwise.

Of course, there's room for improvement. Every team in America can say that unless they're 100% in every shooting category with no turnovers and grabbing every possible rebound.

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The improvement - from a statistical standpoint - is immaterial. There were several of the stats you posted that are worse this year. The 2 that are much better are PPG and SOS. The rest are down or immaterial one way or the other. I don't think I said no improvement but I said what these stats bear out - the improvement is so slight one way or the other that it's basically a wash. This past weekend is a great example. We beat UF but had 19 turnovers. Nobody is talking about the horrendous TOs all we talk about is the win. It was a great road win but most of those turnovers were avoidable. Next time we have 19 turnovers but don't shoot the ball as well we'll get blown out. Then everyone will say we're young, which I can buy to a point, but youth be damned we shouldn't be so careless with the ball. That's what worries me. We're still struggling with a lot of the fundamentals of the game in year 3. Talent, young or old, only gets a team so far..

CrimsonForce said:

The improvement - from a statistical standpoint - is immaterial. There were several of the stats you posted that are worse this year. The 2 that are much better are PPG and SOS. The rest are down or immaterial one way or the other. I don't think I said no improvement but I said what these stats bear out - the improvement is so slight one way or the other that it's basically a wash. This past weekend is a great example. We beat UF but had 19 turnovers. Nobody is talking about the horrendous TOs all we talk about is the win. It was a great road win but most of those turnovers were avoidable. Next time we have 19 turnovers but don't shoot the ball as well we'll get blown out. Then everyone will say we're young, which I can buy to a point, but youth be damned we shouldn't be so careless with the ball. That's what worries me. We're still struggling with a lot of the fundamentals of the game in year 3. Talent, young or old, only gets a team so far..

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You keep saying that we are struggling with fundamentals in year 3. You do realize that we only have a few of those players that are actually in year 3. CAJ is in year 1 with most of this group. Let’s go through the roster:

Colin Sexton - Year 1
John Petty - Year 1
Dazon Ingram - Year 3 (Injured Year 1)
Braxton Key - Year 2(Injured preseason)
Donta Hall - Year 3
Avery Jr. - Year 3 (Sat Year 1)
Herb Jones - Year 1
Daniel Giddens - Year 2 (Sat Year 1)
Alex Reese - Year 1
Galin Smith - Year 1
Lawson Schaffer - Year 3
Riley Norris - Year 3 (Out for the year)
Armond Davis - Year 2(Out for the year)

So while you’re saying Year 3, Donta Hall is really the only player that has had 3 years with CAJ and look at his improvement. His improvement is off the charts.



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CrimsonForce said:

The improvement - from a statistical standpoint - is immaterial. There were several of the stats you posted that are worse this year. The 2 that are much better are PPG and SOS. The rest are down or immaterial one way or the other. I don't think I said no improvement but I said what these stats bear out - the improvement is so slight one way or the other that it's basically a wash. This past weekend is a great example. We beat UF but had 19 turnovers. Nobody is talking about the horrendous TOs all we talk about is the win. It was a great road win but most of those turnovers were avoidable. Next time we have 19 turnovers but don't shoot the ball as well we'll get blown out. Then everyone will say we're young, which I can buy to a point, but youth be damned we shouldn't be so careless with the ball. That's what worries me. We're still struggling with a lot of the fundamentals of the game in year 3. Talent, young or old, only gets a team so far..

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I continue to be amazed you keep making this statement about "fundamentals" in "year 3" when this is basically a team of freshmen.

It's true "talent" only gets you so far, but a raw talented freshmen is going to take you further than a 2nd or 3rd year gym rat. This is the transition we are in. IIRC, Avery has talked about how the difference in college and pros is you have to basically start all over and teach fundamentals. If there's ever a year that a team would struggle with fundamentals it would be this year's Bama team because of their youth.

All respect due to Riley Norris, but a team full of players like him is what Bama basketball was under Grant. Good, but not great players. Under CAJ we are starting to see a transition to more youth, more talent, more ceiling but the tradeoff is what we are seeing with these young guys from one game to the next.

BamaMike05 said:

You keep saying that we are struggling with fundamentals in year 3. You do realize that we only have a few of those players that are actually in year 3. CAJ is in year 1 with most of this group. Let’s go through the roster:

Colin Sexton - Year 1
John Petty - Year 1
Dazon Ingram - Year 3 (Injured Year 1)
Braxton Key - Year 2(Injured preseason)
Donta Hall - Year 3
Avery Jr. - Year 3 (Sat Year 1)
Herb Jones - Year 1
Daniel Giddens - Year 2 (Sat Year 1)
Alex Reese - Year 1
Galin Smith - Year 1
Lawson Schaffer - Year 3
Riley Norris - Year 3 (Out for the year)
Armond Davis - Year 2(Out for the year)

So while you’re saying Year 3, Donta Hall is really the only player that has had 3 years with CAJ and look at his improvement. His improvement is off the charts.



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Great post...been virtually saying the same thing. I was posting when you were earlier.

And when there are times of having Sexton, Petty, Jones and Reese on the floor at one time, what should we expect?

BamaMoon said:

Great post...been virtually saying the same thing. I was posting when you were earlier.

And when there are times of having Sexton, Petty, Jones and Reese on the floor at one time, what should we expect?

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Thanks. So true about those 4 freshman when they are in the game at once.


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BamaMike05 said:

You keep saying that we are struggling with fundamentals in year 3. You do realize that we only have a few of those players that are actually in year 3. CAJ is in year 1 with most of this group. Let’s go through the roster:

Colin Sexton - Year 1
John Petty - Year 1
Dazon Ingram - Year 3 (Injured Year 1)
Braxton Key - Year 2(Injured preseason)
Donta Hall - Year 3
Avery Jr. - Year 3 (Sat Year 1)
Herb Jones - Year 1
Daniel Giddens - Year 2 (Sat Year 1)
Alex Reese - Year 1
Galin Smith - Year 1
Lawson Schaffer - Year 3
Riley Norris - Year 3 (Out for the year)
Armond Davis - Year 2(Out for the year)

So while you’re saying Year 3, Donta Hall is really the only player that has had 3 years with CAJ and look at his improvement. His improvement is off the charts.



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You do realize that the next time all those players step on the court it won't be their first college basketball game. We're 23 games deep this year plus the preseason exhibitions. Nobody complained early in the season because, yes, we have a lot of first year players. But at this point in the season they basically have 1 year of college basketball under their belt. The rhetoric about year 3 is this - nobody expected Avery to come in here and work miracles. We knew it'd take time. That's why there weren't any complaints in year 1 or year 2. It's logical it'd take a few years for Avery to figure out the college game, install his system, practice routine, etc. Now that his system is in place and he's got all the assistant coaches he wants we should be able to bring in players and coach them up in a short amount of time. I'm just not buying the youth excuse when it comes to things that should be taught/worked on in practice when all the players you listed have now played in at least 25+ college games. Hopefully we do well down the stretch because I think the team this year has amazing potential. Just don't want to see it wasted because of things that are coachable..

BamaMoon said:

I continue to be amazed you keep making this statement about "fundamentals" in "year 3" when this is basically a team of freshmen.

It's true "talent" only gets you so far, but a raw talented freshmen is going to take you further than a 2nd or 3rd year gym rat. This is the transition we are in. IIRC, Avery has talked about how the difference in college and pros is you have to basically start all over and teach fundamentals. If there's ever a year that a team would struggle with fundamentals it would be this year's Bama team because of their youth.

All respect due to Riley Norris, but a team full of players like him is what Bama basketball was under Grant. Good, but not great players. Under CAJ we are starting to see a transition to more youth, more talent, more ceiling but the tradeoff is what we are seeing with these young guys from one game to the next.

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This is probably what I'm struggling with. We're more talented but seem to make more mistakes. If we win more games and the program is more successful I'm fine with that. It just seems like a lot of things we're struggling with are basic basketball - passing, boxing out, finishing on 3 v 1 and 2 v 1 fast breaks, free throw shooting etc. IMO, those are things that are worked on and instilled in practice. If a player misses an open shot that's one thing. When we consistently fail on fast breaks or passing the ball it makes me wonder..

Honestly, this is starting to become more of a "I know we're not bad, but I just want to worry because Alabama basketball has let me down in the past." type talk.

RTR91 said:

Honestly, this is starting to become more of a "I know we're not bad, but I just want to worry because Alabama basketball has let me down in the past." type talk.

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I know we're not bad but I guess it's wrong to think we could / should be better. I've said my peace on the subject and don't care to discuss it further. It's about to the point of mindless sparring anyhow. Only thing that ticked me off was someone made the comment that I want the team to lose so that I can somehow be proved right. That's downright lunacy. We all want the program to be as successful as possible. I think that got lost in the back and forth..

CrimsonForce said:

This is probably what I'm struggling with. We're more talented but seem to make more mistakes. If we win more games and the program is more successful I'm fine with that. It just seems like a lot of things we're struggling with are basic basketball - passing, boxing out, finishing on 3 v 1 and 2 v 1 fast breaks, free throw shooting etc. IMO, those are things that are worked on and instilled in practice. If a player misses an open shot that's one thing. When we consistently fail on fast breaks or passing the ball it makes me wonder..

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I'm with you on our struggles to finish 3 on 1 fast breaks! That's frustrating to no end, but remember that just a year ago any of those freshmen didn't have to worry about that. They just took it to the rim and finished with a dunk because in high school your talent helps you get away with poor fundamentals. So it only makes sense this will be a struggle in year one of college to learn and do simple things like running good lanes and taking good angles on fast breaks and remembering to pass off when the defense stops the ball (like they should).

I imagine we have to spend more time on our half court offense in practice than CAJ would like because of the same reasons. In HS most of these guys where just a one man show. Now they have to learn half court basketball.

Given more time, I'd love to see us perfect the transition game and run more. I think it's where we are at our best simply because this is where that talent comes out!

BamaMoon said:

I'm with you on our struggles to finish 3 on 1 fast breaks! That's frustrating to no end, but remember that just a year ago any of those freshmen didn't have to worry about that. They just took it to the rim and finished with a dunk because in high school your talent helps you get away with poor fundamentals. So it only makes sense this will be a struggle in year one of college to learn and do simple things like running good lanes and taking good angles on fast breaks and remembering to pass off when the defense stops the ball (like they should).

I imagine we have to spend more time on our half court offense in practice than CAJ would like because of the same reasons. In HS most of these guys where just a one man show. Now they have to learn half court basketball.

Given more time, I'd love to see us perfect the transition game and run more. I think it's where we are at our best simply because this is where that talent comes out!

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I would love for us to be able to get to where we could run a Roy Williams type transition game. His secondary break stuff is really good.



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BamaMike05 said:

I would love for us to be able to get to where we could run a Roy Williams type transition game. His secondary break stuff is really good.



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I'm an old fan of "Showtime" when the Lakers did it better than anybody.

Under Grant and up until this year we didn't have the personnel to run a fast break offense, but now we do. Herbert Jones reminds me alot of a young James Worthy in transition with his ability to finish. But this is a weakness in Petty's game right now. DI is a pretty good finisher.

But when we see them run right now there's bad spacing, angles and passing. If I'm being honest, Sexton is too greedy on some of these fast breaks too. He needs to give it up a little more in transition. Would help his assists stats too.

BamaMoon said:

I'm an old fan of "Showtime" when the Lakers did it better than anybody.

Under Grant and up until this year we didn't have the personnel to run a fast break offense, but now we do. Herbert Jones reminds me alot of a young James Worthy in transition with his ability to finish. But this is a weakness in Petty's game right now. DI is a pretty good finisher.

But when we see them run right now there's bad spacing, angles and passing. If I'm being honest, Sexton is too greedy on some of these fast breaks too. He needs to give it up a little more in transition. Would help his assists stats too.

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I agree, our spacing on breaks need a lot of work. CAJ has said as much that we need to work on our spacing on O in general. When we do give it up a lot of times we give it too late. I’ve seen a lot of instances when we had the opportunity to throw a lob, but we turn it down and wait until it’s too late to even make a pass.

My teams do 3 on 2/2 on 1 drill every practice. If nothing else, my teams know how to run a fast break lol.


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We are a much better team than we have been in the past. It may not necessarily reflect in the number of wins this year, but our schedule has had a major upgrade this year. We could have played sisters of the poor in the out of conference games like Auburn and have 19 or 20 wins, but you don't get any better when you don't challenge yourself. We are no always fundamentally sound, but young players tend to make mistakes. I guarantee if you look at the minutes played stat, our Freshmen have played close to half of the minutes this year. Those 4 freshman will be back( I think) and we'll be much better. We are just now starting to attract the top flight players and it takes time to build a roster. Duke and UK don't win so much just because they are coached well. They normally put 5 McDonalds all American's on the floor just about all of the time. As with football, it is all about recruiting and player development and I see both from Coach Johnson. The future is bright so be patient. I've said this before, next year may be "our year."

You also have to remember, we will be a matchup nightmare in the tourney assuming we make it. If we make it this year, and I think we will, we have the potential to make some noise for a change.

BamaMike05 said:

I agree, our spacing on breaks need a lot of work. CAJ has said as much that we need to work on our spacing on O in general. When we do give it up a lot of times we give it too late. I’ve seen a lot of instances when we had the opportunity to throw a lob, but we turn it down and wait until it’s too late to even make a pass.

My teams do 3 on 2/2 on 1 drill every practice. If nothing else, my teams know how to run a fast break lol.


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On some of our 3 on 1 breaks the spacing is so close there's not room for a pass. I was taught to stay wide and deeper when running the outside lane, but our guys stay way to narrow and take sharp angles to the glass. Not good for passing or finishing.

And I agree the point on the break is waiting way too late to make a pass. Again, basic fast break ball teaches to give it up at the free thrown line but our guys get into the lane and then try to pass sometimes. Basically one guy can guard/defend all three at that point.

Simple stuff really, but these guys have relied too much on athleticism too much.

Rama Jama said:

We are a much better team than we have been in the past. It may not necessarily reflect in the number of wins this year, but our schedule has had a major upgrade this year. We could have played sisters of the poor in the out of conference games like Auburn and have 19 or 20 wins, but you don't get any better when you don't challenge yourself. We are no always fundamentally sound, but young players tend to make mistakes. I guarantee if you look at the minutes played stat, our Freshmen have played close to half of the minutes this year. Those 4 freshman will be back( I think) and we'll be much better. We are just now starting to attract the top flight players and it takes time to build a roster. Duke and UK don't win so much just because they are coached well. They normally put 5 McDonalds all American's on the floor just about all of the time. As with football, it is all about recruiting and player development and I see both from Coach Johnson. The future is bright so be patient. I've said this before, next year may be "our year."

You also have to remember, we will be a matchup nightmare in the tourney assuming we make it. If we make it this year, and I think we will, we have the potential to make some noise for a change.

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Collin - 589 minutes in 20 games (73.6%)
Petty - 663 minutes in 23 games (72.1%)
Herbert - 518 minutes in 23 games (56.3%)
Reese - 218 minutes in 19 games (28.7%)
Galin - 234 minutes in 21 games (27.9%)

Alabama has played 920 minutes thus far. And let's not forget some were thinking Galin and/or Reese and/or Herb would be redshirts this year.

CrimsonForce said:

This is probably what I'm struggling with. We're more talented but seem to make more mistakes. If we win more games and the program is more successful I'm fine with that. It just seems like a lot of things we're struggling with are basic basketball - passing, boxing out, finishing on 3 v 1 and 2 v 1 fast breaks, free throw shooting etc. IMO, those are things that are worked on and instilled in practice. If a player misses an open shot that's one thing. When we consistently fail on fast breaks or passing the ball it makes me wonder..

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You keep insisting that the issue is coaching or that bad or mediocre coaching is the reason Bama is not as clean as you think it ought to be. You simply refuse to properly acknowledge the matter of youth playing at this time. Almost half, 48.5%, of the playing time is by true freshmen. Then there are sophs Ingram, Key and Giddens then Hall a Jr and AJ. The youngest team in Bama history, the 4th youngest in the country.

This team is still a disappointment no matter how you cut it. Lose @Ole Miss, Beat OU, Lose to Mizzou, Win @Florida, Lose @MSU.


That ain't indicative of a young team. That is indicative of a team that only shows up when the scouts are watching.

rgw said:

This team is still a disappointment no matter how you cut it. Lose @Ole Miss, Beat OU, Lose to Mizzou, Win @Florida, Lose @MSU.


That ain't indicative of a young team. That is indicative of a team that only shows up when the scouts are watching.

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That is indicative of youth. Thats a lack of maturity and pride in performance.

rgw said:

This team is still a disappointment no matter how you cut it. Lose @Ole Miss, Beat OU, Lose to Mizzou, Win @Florida, Lose @MSU.


That ain't indicative of a young team. That is indicative of a team that only shows up when the scouts are watching.

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Maybe we should just tell the team scouts are watching all of our games.