Question: Move Jalen to Slot Receiver?

I think Tua earned it on the biggest stage and under an extreme amount of pressure. I don’t think it is even close.

If CNS basically said that Jalen has trouble throwing the football and Tua throws too many interceptions it would seem to me that it would be much easier to teach Tua to be more selective about his passes than to teach Jalen to spot the open receiver. Some QB's just have the vision others don't. It's difficult to turn a QB that's struggled for two years into a great passer while it shouldn't be as difficult to teach a passer to be less aggressive. That's why I think when the starter is named it will be Tua.

PA Tide Fan said:

If CNS basically said that Jalen has trouble throwing the football and Tua throws too many interceptions it would seem to me that it would be much easier to teach Tua to be more selective about his passes than to teach Jalen to spot the open receiver. Some QB's just have the vision others don't. It's difficult to turn a QB that's struggled for two years into a great passer while it shouldn't be as difficult to teach a passer to be less aggressive. That's why I think when the starter is named it will be Tua.

Click to expand...

Sounded like this is what they did to AJ. He was a gun slinger when he arrived and put the ball at risk too much in practice. He had that completely trained out of him by the time he became your starter, and it limited him too much, IMO.

Tua needs to Tua - let him throw a few picks and learn from them.

B1GTide said:

Sounded like this is what they did to AJ. He was a gun slinger when he arrived and put the ball at risk too much in practice. He had that completely trained out of him by the time he became your starter, and it limited him too much, IMO.

Tua needs to Tua - let him throw a few picks and learn from them.

Click to expand...

I know games and practice are wholly different, but the scuttlebutt out of practice was that Tua was roasting our secondary in practice. I think he may throw a FEW interceptions in games but if he's already able to make mince-meat of the Alabama secondary and not have turnovers be a HUGE problem then I don't think it will be as big of a problem as people think. With our backfield talent he should rarely have to put the team completely on his shoulders to win a game, and thus, force bad throws. It's just a feeling I get.

If he wins the job I can guarantee you there will be a ton of chicken little's coming out of the woodworks the moment he throws his first int. This year was an anomaly as far as ints go and I would think most would take more production from the passer position in exchange for 2-3 more ints.

B1GTide said:

Sounded like this is what they did to AJ. He was a gun slinger when he arrived and put the ball at risk too much in practice. He had that completely trained out of him by the time he became your starter, and it limited him too much, IMO.

Tua needs to Tua - let him throw a few picks and learn from them.

Click to expand...

There is a part of me that wants to agree with this, but we won 2 national titles in 3 years of AJ starting with him being asked to be more of a game manager than a gunslinger. Therefore, I'm not going to argue with the results. As much as we sometimes want to see the flashiness of a more high powered offense, there is a reason we don't and it's not because of lack of capability.

GrayTide said:

Once again I may be the only one on here who believes the Jalen vs Tua deal is not settled. IMO, one of them will not be around for fall camp. If this plays out as most everyone on here has determined then Jalen is gone, sits out a year and still has two years to start at another school and possibly hone his QB skills. It isn't hard to see why we didn't get a QB in this recruiting cycle.

Click to expand...

I agree that it hasn't been settled. I honestly don't feel that CNS concludes that Tua effectively catching lightening in a bottle in the NCG sets the decision for the 2018 season. I have seen HS pitchers getting lit up consistently end up at Auburn for four years and signing a pro contract because they had the physical size to be developed. So I am not going to be surprised at all if JH makes tremendous strides in the off season.

I believe that Tua can contend for the Heisman but as I look at each of his pass attempts in 2017 I realize how much there is for him to learn also.

If both Tua and JH have NFL objectives they have to be constantly assessing where they are on that path and neither of them can afford to sit and wait.

One question I have always had is how CNS counsels these guys as they begin to evaluate their alternatives.

Power Eye said:

There is a part of me that wants to agree with this, but we won 2 national titles in 3 years of AJ starting with him being asked to be more of a game manager than a gunslinger. Therefore, I'm not going to argue with the results. As much as we sometimes want to see the flashiness of a more high powered offense, there is a reason we don't and it's not because of lack of capability.

Click to expand...

Going back to the 2011 season, the passing attempt numbers have been 357, 328, 365, 451, 446, 417, and 332.

If Tua is the quarterback, I suspect the passing game will be along the 2014 and 2015 numbers rather than the 2013 number of 365. The style of offense played in 2018 is drastically different than what we ran with AJ at the position.

Interceptions, like fumbles are part of football. Interceptions are not always on the QB. Pass protection breakdowns, tipped balls, receivers slipping or running the wrong route can all lead to an interception. It is going to happen at some point.

To state the obvious, Jalen does not see the entire field, he does not throw the receivers open, he cannot or does not go through his progressions. Can a QB coach like Enos fix these things, IDK. In the mean time Tua is going to make some mistakes, but overall he has exhibited the ability to do what Jalen cannot do as a thrower. What does this mean, again IDK; we will just have to trust Coach Saban's judgement on this one.

Intl.Aperture said:

I know games and practice are wholly different, but the scuttlebutt out of practice was that Tua was roasting our secondary in practice. I think he may throw a FEW interceptions in games but if he's already able to make mince-meat of the Alabama secondary and not have turnovers be a HUGE problem then I don't think it will be as big of a problem as people think. With our backfield talent he should rarely have to put the team completely on his shoulders to win a game, and thus, force bad throws. It's just a feeling I get.

If he wins the job I can guarantee you there will be a ton of chicken little's coming out of the woodworks the moment he throws his first int. This year was an anomaly as far as ints go and I would think most would take more production from the passer position in exchange for 2-3 more ints.

Click to expand...

What some folks seem to forget is that Hurts turned over the ball 14 times in his first season, and fumbled several more times that we recovered.

In any event, you have to score to win the game, so I'll take 3 touchdowns and a turnover before 0 points and 0 turnovers, every time.

I still don't understand the narrative that has developed that Tua is/will be a turnover machine.

Tua threw 1 INT against UT that got blown out of proportion and 1 in the NC game where he missed a signal that it was a run only play. He's throw a few others that could have been picked off, but the majority of his throws are on time and very accurate and lead to completions, first downs and, most importantly, TDs.

He'll throw a few more the Jalen, by comparison, but our offense will be much more balanced, we'll not struggle as much on 3rd downs and we'll easily score more TDs thru the air and likely on the ground.

Just a quick glance at this past years NFL leading qbs and a TD to INT ratio of 4 to 1 or 3-1 describes the best QBs in the league.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...xperience=&tabSeq=0&qualified=false&Submit=Go

Anybody here be willing to take Tua throwing 32 tds and 8 ints next year? That's what Tom Brady did last year and if AJ can go 30-3 like he did one year, I think Tua can be coached to put up similar numbers against college defensive backfields.

BTW, in limited play last year he threw 11 tds to 2 ints. http://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/4241479/tua-tagovailoa

UAH said:

I agree that it hasn't been settled. I honestly don't feel that CNS concludes that Tua effectively catching lightening in a bottle in the NCG sets the decision for the 2018 season.
.

Click to expand...

That seems to be the narrative now with some folks, but it's just not the case. Tagovailoa proved all year long that he was the better quarterback, but the narrative then was that he came in relief and was so good because the other team was already beaten. So then Tua comes in after a scoreless first half, in the biggest game in college, wins the game, and now he just caught lightning in a bottle.

BamaMoon said:

I still don't understand the narrative that has developed that Tua is/will be a turnover machine.

Tua threw 1 INT against UT that got blown out of proportion and 1 in the NC game where he missed a signal that it was a run only play. He's throw a few others that could have been picked off, but the majority of his throws are on time and very accurate and lead to completions, first downs and, most importantly, TDs.

He'll throw a few more the Jalen, by comparison, but our offense will be much more balanced, we'll not struggle as much on 3rd downs and we'll easily score more TDs thru the air and likely on the ground.

Just a quick glance at this past years NFL leading qbs and a TD to INT ratio of 4 to 1 or 3-1 describes the best QBs in the league.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...xperience=&tabSeq=0&qualified=false&Submit=Go

Anybody here be willing to take Tua throwing 32 tds and 8 ints next year? That's what Tom Brady did last year and if AJ can go 30-3 like he did one year, I think Tua can be coached to put up similar numbers against college defensive backfields.

BTW, in limited play last year he threw 11 tds to 2 ints. http://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/4241479/tua-tagovailoa

Click to expand...

Agreed, those TD to interception ratios are on par with the great NFL QBs,there are quarterbacks in both college and pro that would take those. I think the one interception by Jalen has gotten so many use to the lack of interceptions that the appearance of anything more seems out of proportion. However one pick is not the norm on any level. Not complaining here, but one interception often falls in line with being very conservative as well. Tuas only going to improve , especially with the confidence he's more than likely developed at this point. RTR

The narrative could also be that Jalen (who's dern good), was 25-2 because of a monster defense and incredible running game. But I dare say, our 3rd down conversion rate wouldn't have been as low this year had Tua been playing.

Crimson White said:

That seems to be the narrative now with some folks, but it's just not the case. Tagovailoa proved all year long that he was the better quarterback, but the narrative then was that he came in relief and was so good because the other team was already beaten. So then Tua comes in after a scoreless first half, in the biggest game in college, wins the game, and now he just caught lightning in a bottle.

Click to expand...

He may have proven that he is a much better passer and I agree with that. He is gifted... if he can visualize a way to throw the ball for the receiver to get his hands on the ball then he considers the receiver open. This is Aaron Rodgers type arm talent. It is so much different than JH who just doesn't have the same arm talent using that term in the broadest sense.

It is unreasonable however to expect Tua to consistently repeat the performance in Atlanta and believe that he would not have some difficult games. CNS knows this and is going to see how that develops and how JH develops IMO.

I really have no idea how CNS evaluates this and how he concludes what is the best opportunity to win games in 2018. That is a decision he gets to make!

UAH said:

CNS knows this and is going to see how that develops and how JH develops IMO.

I really have no idea how CNS evaluates this and how he concludes what is the best opportunity to win games in 2018. That is a decision he gets to make!

Click to expand...

Jalen Hurts has had two years to develop and still isn't a consistent passer, still can't read the defense before or after the snap, still doesn't look off the receiver, still can't check down to secondary receivers. Tua is better right now at all those things. You're right, though, that Saban may not have decided. A guy on another forum says the Coach seems to have an "infatuation" with Hurts. I think he just is very conservative re: the offense. I am afraid that if Hurts is the projected starter going into the fall, Tagovailoa won't be here, and honestly, I don't see how anybody could blame him.

B1GTide said:

Sounded like this is what they did to AJ. He was a gun slinger when he arrived and put the ball at risk too much in practice. He had that completely trained out of him by the time he became your starter, and it limited him too much, IMO.

Tua needs to Tua - let him throw a few picks and learn from them.

Click to expand...

That's now how I remember it. Saban admitted that he reigned in AJ too much in the first lsu game in 2011. Turned him loose in the BCS title game and AJ followed it up with his best season at Alabama in 2012.

Crimson White said:

Jalen Hurts has had two years to develop and still isn't a consistent passer, still can't read the defense before or after the snap, still doesn't look off the receiver, still can't check down to secondary receivers. Tua is better right now at all those things. You're right, though, that Saban may not have decided. A guy on another forum says the Coach seems to have an "infatuation" with Hurts. I think he just is very conservative re: the offense. I am afraid that if Hurts is the projected starter going into the fall, Tagovailoa won't be here, and honestly, I don't see how anybody could blame him.

Click to expand...

I can't imagine Jalen is the projected starter going into fall. It would be a huge upset and if reports are to be believed about the issues in the locker room (and specifically with the WRs) then there would likely be quite a few players fed up. Saban is adaptable and far from stupid. I have to imagine the likely hood of Tua being the starter is close to 100%. Something dramatic would have to happen for him not to start IMO.

Crimson White said:

Jalen Hurts has had two years to develop and still isn't a consistent passer, still can't read the defense before or after the snap, still doesn't look off the receiver, still can't check down to secondary receivers. Tua is better right now at all those things. You're right, though, that Saban may not have decided. A guy on another forum says the Coach seems to have an "infatuation" with Hurts. I think he just is very conservative re: the offense. I am afraid that if Hurts is the projected starter going into the fall, Tagovailoa won't be here, and honestly, I don't see how anybody could blame him.

Click to expand...

I agree with just about all of that. I become as frustrated with JH as anyone could be. I can't know how CNS evaluates both young men and realize that either one of them could suffer an injury at any moment.

Taking that just a step further I believe when we face teams with NFL prospects on defense we have to throw the ball well to run with play action. That is how the NFL has developed and it seems to me to be proven to be the case in the SEC.

With all of that however I don't know CNS's thought process.

Who can say what Tua does in practice?
I believe Coach Saban places an very high premium on not putting the defense into a bad situation (and turnovers really do that). I was not there, but I would bet that Jalen hardly ever committed a turnover in practice and maybe Tua would sling the ball ball over the place, making some great throws and making some dumb freshmen throws, and Coach Saban said to himself, "The Tua's ceiling is higher, but I just can't trust this freshman when it really counts." The 2nd half against Georgia may put those fears to rest.
Other comments about Jalen being Bama's QB meaning that opposing defenses can put nine men in the box and dare Bama to try to beat them passing are probably spot on. If I was an opposing DC, Jalen throwing the ball would not scare me at all. (Jalen running the ball would concern me more; the kids is fast and tough and if Bama spreads a D out and creates creases for Jalen, he will hurt you).
So, Tua going 15-27 for 150 yards with 2 TDs and 3 picks would concern me if I was Coach Saban.
Tua going 23-27 for 250 yards for 4 TDs and no picks would make me feel pretty darn good about next fall.
I like Jalen Hurts. That kid is as "cool as the other side of the pillow," but I am still not convinced that his future is playing QB. Tim Tebow (who I still think is a good person, a good athlete and an asset to a team because he causes others to play better) rode his "I'm only going to play QB" attitude into being a commentator of the sidelines of SEC football games. If he had accepted the verdict of NFL scouts, he'd probably still be in the league, only playing tight end or running back.
An object lesson for Jalen.

UAH said:

He may have proven that he is a much better passer and I agree with that. He is gifted... if he can visualize a way to throw the ball for the receiver to get his hands on the ball then he considers the receiver open. This is Aaron Rodgers type arm talent. It is so much different than JH who just doesn't have the same arm talent using that term in the broadest sense.

It is unreasonable however to expect Tua to consistently repeat the performance in Atlanta and believe that he would not have some difficult games. CNS knows this and is going to see how that develops and how JH develops IMO.

I really have no idea how CNS evaluates this and how he concludes what is the best opportunity to win games in 2018. That is a decision he gets to make!

Click to expand...

I think he will often exceed the NC game. I don't think you understand what happened last year with either Jalen or Tua. Saban is going to let it play out, but it's hard to envision anyone but Tua starting next year. Repeating myself: barring shocking developments, if Tua is not the starter next fall, the coaching staff, players, fans and the rest of college football will be enraged . Tua is far more advanced at this stage than any QB I can remember at Bama. This includes pocket presence, pre snap reads, post snap reads, throwing the ball, passing moxie, etc. Jalen is maybe the least advanced passer in the Saban era. I don't even know if Jalen is a better runner. He has more top end speed, but Tua is quicker and more elusive and makes better reads on RPOs. Jalen may be a little less TO prone, that remains to be seen, but how does he overcome all of his deficiencies related to Tua? Btw, every other QB, certainly of the Saban era, would be at a disadvantage. Even the great intangibles that Jalen has are at least met and probably surpassed by Tua because he adds a confident and loose approach to the game. His teammates have great confidence in him. Anyone who saw Tua enter the NC game witnessed a profound change in the team energy, not just in the passing game, but the running game and defense. It's hard to imagine someone out-dueling Tua, especially a limited passer.