Link: Reuben in trouble again... (DV Charges Dropped) (UPDATE: Suspended 2 Games)

gtgilbert

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Re: Reuben in trouble again...

I wonder in cases like this if the reason girls/women eventually recant their story (where the new story ultimately ends up being completely different than the original story), is due to both parties privately talking and basically saying "Look, if I'm in jail your meal ticket is gone. If I'm not in jail, I'm a millionaire." There's just so many times the woman's second version of the story is vastly different than the first. When millions of dollars are involved I simply cannot rule out that influencing someone's testimony.
I've no doubt that can and does happen sometimes. that said, there are also some unfortunate cases where, for whatever reason, the woman just lies the first time. Those instances hurt both the male who is accused, and also other women who are actual victims of domestic abuse.
 

MN-Tide

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Re: Reuben in trouble again...

All we know for sure is that this woman is a liar. She either lied in the first instance, or is lying now. Or maybe she is lying both times. Like others have said, make better choices of who you surround yourself with.
 

B1GTide

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Re: Reuben in trouble again...

All we know for sure is that this woman is a liar. She either lied in the first instance, or is lying now. Or maybe she is lying both times. Like others have said, make better choices of who you surround yourself with.
This is very harsh. If she is lying now, for whatever reason, then she was the victim of a horrible assault. Let's not start calling her (or him) names until we have more information.
 

CoachJeff

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Re: Reuben in trouble again...

I wonder in cases like this if the reason girls/women eventually recant their story (where the new story ultimately ends up being completely different than the original story), is due to both parties privately talking and basically saying "Look, if I'm in jail your meal ticket is gone. If I'm not in jail, I'm a millionaire." There's just so many times the woman's second version of the story is vastly different than the first. When millions of dollars are involved I simply cannot rule out that influencing someone's testimony.
That very well could be the case.

If so, is that necessarily wrong? If she changes her mind shouldn't she be allowed to? She's an adult.
 

B1GTide

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Re: Reuben in trouble again...

That very well could be the case.

If so, is that necessarily wrong? If she changes her mind shouldn't she be allowed to? She's an adult.
I think that she should be allowed to change her mind with respect her pressing charges, but that might not change the consequences for the abuser. She has to actually lie to protect the abuser. My question - shouldn't there be legal consequences toed to that lie?
 

Bamabuzzard

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Re: Reuben in trouble again...

That very well could be the case.

If so, is that necessarily wrong? If she changes her mind shouldn't she be allowed to? She's an adult.
Sure, but it chips away at the severity of domestic violence is viewed. "It's severe err... until millions of dollars are involved....then it's really not that bad."
 
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uafan4life

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Re: Reuben in trouble again...

Sure, but it chips away at the severity of domestic violence. "It's severe.........well until millions of dollars are involved....then it's really not that bad."
Does it, though? One could argue that it is simply a capitalistic function allowing the victim to place a monetary value on the event.

I mean, think of it this way...

If you were to be assaulted by a drunk guy at a bar who thought you were flirting with his girl and happens to be wealthy, which scenario would you prefer?
After any of your medical expenses are paid,
A) the guy gets a prison sentence of six months and you go on your merry way, or
B) the guy pays you a fine of $600,000 and you both go on your merry ways?

Personally, I'd go for the latter. If the guy is the type to learn a lesson, then the loss of $600K may teach it just as well if not better than the jail time. If he isn't, then neither is likely to change his behavior. Either way, I'd rather have the justice served that helps my bank account.
:biggrin2:

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B1GTide

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Re: Reuben in trouble again...

Does it, though? One could argue that it is simply a capitalistic function allowing the victim to place a monetary value on the event.

I mean, think of it this way...

If you were to be assaulted by a drunk guy at a bar who thought you were flirting with his girl and happens to be wealthy, which scenario would you prefer?
After any of your medical expenses are paid,
A) the guy gets a prison sentence of six months and you go on your merry way, or
B) the guy pays you a fine of $600,000 and you both go on your merry ways?

Personally, I'd go for the latter. If the guy is the type to learn a lesson, then the loss of $600K may teach it just as well if not better than the jail time. If he isn't, then neither is likely to change his behavior. Either way, I'd rather have the justice served that helps my bank account.
:biggrin2:

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Where does the impact on our society come into play? Do we even care that we have created one justice system for the wealthy and another for everyone else? How about the cost to future victims? How about the cost to our legal system, where resources are wasted?
 

RTR91

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Re: Reuben in trouble again...

Where does the impact on our society come into play? Do we even care that we have created one justice system for the wealthy and another for everyone else? How about the cost to future victims? How about the cost to our legal system, where resources are wasted?
This is the biggest thing (outside of any damage done to Reuben).

If she did indeed fabricate the story, she did more harm to future victims than she can imagine. Some will doubt the victims in similar situations and claim they are just trying to ruin the celebrity's career.

Doubting the victims of sexual assault and domestic violence is one of the reasons we have particular movements in society today.
 

TrampLineman

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Re: Reuben in trouble again...

This is very harsh. If she is lying now, for whatever reason, then she was the victim of a horrible assault. Let's not start calling her (or him) names until we have more information.
To be honest, it is not harsh IMHO. She is lying, she can't have things both ways. She either lied about the incident or lying about her story. MN-Tide nailed it.
 

B1GTide

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Re: Reuben in trouble again...

To be honest, it is not harsh IMHO. She is lying, she can't have things both ways. She either lied about the incident or lying about her story. MN-Tide nailed it.
We all lie. Should I start calling you (or anyone else) a liar because they have lied?
 

uafan4life

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Re: Reuben in trouble again...

Where does the impact on our society come into play? Do we even care that we have created one justice system for the wealthy and another for everyone else? How about the cost to future victims? How about the cost to our legal system, where resources are wasted?
That all depends upon how you define justice and whether that is really - or should be - the point of our legal system.

Granted, if the accusers were given such a choice, it would negate the need for the accusers to lie in recanting their story; it would just be "settled", for lack of a better term.

As for a separate legal system for the wealthy... One, many would argue that already exists and, two, this way there would at least be a significant monetary benefit for the victim. While we would, in a sense, be creating a get-out-of-jail-card system for the wealthy, if the penalties were appropriately severe then wealthy individuals who continually flaunted the law would not remain wealthy indefinitely. And it might be even a stronger deterrent since you'd be hitting them hard where it counts - in their pocketbook.

Finally, if the point of our justice system is twofold - a) seeking justice for the victim(s) and b) discouraging future crimes - then this approach could theoretically accomplish both goals better than our current status quo.

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Bamabuzzard

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Re: Reuben in trouble again...

I get that angle and actually completely agree with it in the scenario you provided. But my comment is in light of the view that professional sports (specifically football) has taken. Basically, anyone who "hits a woman has no place in the sport" and if that's not the consequence then you're telling society "you" don't take domestic violence serious. Hence the statement from the Niners that if its determined that Foster hit a woman he would no longer be a part of the organization. Which would also more than likely mean he would be sitting beside Ray Rice in the NFL unemployment line never to be signed again.

Applying your option B in a domestic violence case where a woman is being punched by a man then accepting a cash payment in lieu of legal action. Would more than likely undermine the seriousness domestic violence against women is viewed. It could start to be viewed like players paying a fine. Throw money at it then go do it again. No body cares if I (a man) get punched by another man. But when a man two pieces a woman it's viewed A LOT different and A LOT more serious. And seeing my southern upbringing, it should be viewed more serious. A LOT more serious.



Does it, though? One could argue that it is simply a capitalistic function allowing the victim to place a monetary value on the event.

I mean, think of it this way...

If you were to be assaulted by a drunk guy at a bar who thought you were flirting with his girl and happens to be wealthy, which scenario would you prefer?
After any of your medical expenses are paid,
A) the guy gets a prison sentence of six months and you go on your merry way, or
B) the guy pays you a fine of $600,000 and you both go on your merry ways?

Personally, I'd go for the latter. If the guy is the type to learn a lesson, then the loss of $600K may teach it just as well if not better than the jail time. If he isn't, then neither is likely to change his behavior. Either way, I'd rather have the justice served that helps my bank account.
:biggrin2:

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
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B1GTide

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Re: Reuben in trouble again...

Finally, if the point of our justice system is twofold - a) seeking justice for the victim(s) and b) discouraging future crimes - then this approach could theoretically accomplish both goals better than our current status quo.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Wrong - this would encourage the rich to behave as they wish. That is not better than our current system.
 

TrampLineman

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Re: Reuben in trouble again...

We all lie. Should I start calling you (or anyone else) a liar because they have lied?
It wouldn't be "untrue" because we all lie. But lying to cost someone their job and future would make you even more of a liar. Still doesn't change the fact she is a liar.
 

gtgilbert

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Re: Reuben in trouble again...

Wrong - this would encourage the rich to behave as they wish. That is not better than our current system.
I guess it depends on the person. I know several folks who I'd bet would rather spend time in jail than part with a substantial chunk of their wealth. I guess there are some that have enough that it wouldn't ever matter, but I don't know any of those folks...
 

B1GTide

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Re: Reuben in trouble again...

It wouldn't be "untrue" because we all lie. But lying to cost someone their job and future would make you even more of a liar. Still doesn't change the fact she is a liar.
We are talking about calling her a liar if she has changed her story to protect Foster. We all agree that she should be buried under the jail if she tried to ruin Foster's career by lying about the attack.
 

B1GTide

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Re: Reuben in trouble again...

I guess it depends on the person. I know several folks who I'd bet would rather spend time in jail than part with a substantial chunk of their wealth. I guess there are some that have enough that it wouldn't ever matter, but I don't know any of those folks...
When we allowed corporations to get away with paying for negligence instead of sending corporate officers to prison, we learned what the wealthy are willing to do. Companies all over America calculate the cost of creating a safe product vs. the cost to pay out lawsuits when deciding what to do. This type of culture - one which allows the wealthy and powerful to get away with anything as long as they can write a big enough check - is reprehensible.
 

TrampLineman

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Re: Reuben in trouble again...

We are talking about calling her a liar if she has changed her story to protect Foster. We all agree that she should be buried under the jail if she tried to ruin Foster's career by lying about the attack.
No, she is a liar period. She either lied about the attack, or she lied it being in a fight with another woman. Either way she lied, doesn't matter if it's to protect him or not. A lie is a lie period. She has lost all credibility at this point no matter what story she goes with. She has even admitted to lying through her attorney, what more do you need? Lol
 

B1GTide

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Re: Reuben in trouble again...

No, she is a liar period. She either lied about the attack, or she lied it being in a fight with another woman. Either way she lied, doesn't matter if it's to protect him or not. A lie is a lie period. She has lost all credibility at this point no matter what story she goes with. She has even admitted to lying through her attorney, what more do you need? Lol
Okay, they you are a liar. Period. And so am I. Period. And so is everyone else. Period. So calling someone a liar like this makes the use of the word meaningless. You might as well say that we are human. Because all humans are liars.

We are all liars and none of us have any credibility?

ETA - I am not trying to be offensive. I am just pointing out that the use of a word too broadly can make it meaningless. We don't tend to call people liars unless they have stepped beyond some line which most of us would not cross.
 
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