SIAP: Mike Shula To Be NY Giants OC

tlockwood

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I will be the first to admit that CMS wasn't the best hire Alabama ever had, but I don't think he was the worst either. I will forever remember him leading the team down the field to beat UGA. I choose to remember the good and not the bad.

He was never going to win big here. He was in way over his head (I don't think the SEC is for new head coaches getting their feet wet). But I do think he did a little better job of righting the ship than most will give him credit for.

BTW...I think his father is quit possibly the original snowflake.
 

selmaborntidefan

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He wasn't college HC material. He was a bad hire at the time and I'm don't he would be a good college HC today. He should never have been offered the job in the first place, he was way over his head. I think most here would not be so hard on him if we had not given him the keys to the car in the first place.
I think folks could have accepted he was in over his head if he wasn’t such a phony. If he had Ed Orgeron’s personality, we might have thought “yeah he was in over his head but HE was fun.” But the phoniness rankles....especially when the 3 in front of him were just as phony.
 

4Q Basket Case

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Shula is a first-rate QB coach. He's a mediocre OC. He's out of his depth as a HC.

Good points: Understood the public position of the UA HC job. Didn't embarrass us with his conduct. Despite what others have said here, he does deserve credit for taking the job when he did.

Weaknesses: Never understood the college game vs. the pro game. Which led to a lack of discipline on and off the field.

Another symptom of the college vs. pro thing, that I've come to understand only after the fact: he was neglectful, almost to the point of cruelty, to youngsters. I don't know what was going through his mind. But I'd like to think that, given his personal and professional background, he truly didn't understand the challenges faced by under-privileged 18-20 year olds.

In fairness, his only contact with the college game...ever...was as a player.

Others are not so charitable.

I do know that his exit was incendiary, with his dad pouring oxygen on phosphorous. Just as he did in Cleveland when the Browns fired Mike's older brother David.

While not there personally, I do have information from people who were. They said that Mike's exit was so bad that he won't be setting foot on campus ever again, even if he ends up as the HC of Tuscaloosa County High School.

Like all of us, Shula deserves both respect for the good things, and recognition of the weaknesses.

I still wonder where we'd be today if Leigh Tiffin had hit some XPs and chip-shot FGs against Arkansas in the 2006 game in Fayetteville.

There, but for the grace of a break we desperately needed, go we.
 
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KrAzY3

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I guess my main issue with Shula was just that it was a bad hire. I get that Alabama had limited options, but surely they had better options. Heck, even Croom seemed better to me at the time and I still think he would have been. The counter of course would be that Croom only had 1 winning season in 5 at Miss. St., but his situation was considerably worse and Shula only managed one winning season in 4, which is hardly better. So, I always thought hiring him was a mistake and he wasn't the most qualified candidate.

That aside, I have personal resentment against him for one reason. Prothro... he had him out there in a blowout on a 4th down play he shouldn't have even been running (I literally ran up to my brother to ask what the heck Shula was doing). It was bad coaching and while obviously Shula didn't intend it, it was a mistake that probably cost someone their career. All because he apparently wanted to run up the score, perhaps because Meyer got under his skin. Of course that set into motion a series of events that probably cost him his job. Alabama couldn't do anything on offense after Prothro got hurt, then Shula missed out on Tebow (Tebow seemed to be an Alabama lean at one point, but selling him on an inept offense probably wasn't easy), then people finally realized he really wasn't a good coach, he got fired, Saban got hired...
 
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ecraj

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"Some of you guys are just mean. He is one of our boys, and was instrumental in some really good wins for us back in the day. Not a great HC for us, I agree, but I will always have fond memories of his time as our QB. I wish the coaching thing had worked out here, but also remember he came here at one of our lowest points when almost nobody else wanted the gig."

Good point. He came on to coach when it seemed no one else would dare to.
 

selmaborntidefan

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"Some of you guys are just mean. He is one of our boys, and was instrumental in some really good wins for us back in the day. Not a great HC for us, I agree, but I will always have fond memories of his time as our QB. I wish the coaching thing had worked out here, but also remember he came here at one of our lowest points when almost nobody else wanted the gig."

Good point. He came on to coach when it seemed no one else would dare to.



 

RedWave

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Tell me this list of winners who were willing to crawl on their hands and knees on broken glass to coach Bama at that point. Mike Riley turned us down, and he was a Bama guy. A few years later, he gladly takes the Nebraska job. Jim Levitt turned us down, and if the story is true, even framed our offer. And those are just the ones I recall off the top of my head. But this was not a program people were lining up to coach at the time. I remember Croom being interested, but that's it. What has he done since? A few of you guys are poo-pooing the statement of Shula being there when nobody wanted this. Tell me who else we could have gotten. I am genuinely curious.

By the way, this thread was never intended to be a Shula praise or bash thread. Just a "hey, look, he got a decent job" announcement. I was young when he played here, and I remember him fondly. While some of you hold 30 year grudges over mistakes a 21 year-old boy made.
 

crimsonaudio

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He came on to coach when it seemed no one else would dare to.
You couldn't be more wrong, no matter how often you repeat it.

Shula took a job that was offered him because he was 'safe' - but there were several well-known coaches who reached out to Bama wanting the gig.

He was paid a lot of money to coast along and 'coach' a team without discipline. He was given an opportunity and he blew it. Yah, he didn't get us in trouble and wasn't a moral problem for the university - if that's the bar we set for coaches, literally millions of people would be his equal.

I'll be thankful until the day I die that Tebow chose Florida over Bama.

Now can we finally put the unfounded rumor to rest that no one else wanted the Bama job? It couldn't be more incorrect.
 

rgw

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He led a crappy program for 3/4 of my college days...and all of the ones when I was in the band and couldn't just leave as soon as the clock hit all zeroes. Nah, I'm fine with being petty.
 

RedWave

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You couldn't be more wrong, no matter how often you repeat it.

Shula took a job that was offered him because he was 'safe' - but there were several well-known coaches who reached out to Bama wanting the gig.He was paid a lot of money to coast along and 'coach' a team without discipline. He was given an opportunity and he blew it. Yah, he didn't get us in trouble and wasn't a moral problem for the university - if that's the bar we set for coaches, literally millions of people would be his equal.

I'll be thankful until the day I die that Tebow chose Florida over Bama.

Now can we finally put the unfounded rumor to rest that no one else wanted the Bama job? It couldn't be more incorrect.
Who? I would really like to know who we think we could have gotten then that would have helped. When I hear this, it seems like little more than the Jon Gruden fantasies that Tennessee fans hold on to.
 

crimsonaudio

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A few of you guys are poo-pooing the statement of Shula being there when nobody wanted this. Tell me who else we could have gotten. I am genuinely curious.
Yes, some of us actually knew folks involved in the process. Shula was the 'safe' hire, but there were a few real, proven coaches that approached the university, but were passed over due to the assumed need for a 'Bama man'. They reverted to the 'Bama man' requirement after the Fran and Price fiascos, and turned down several good coaches in favor of Shula.

Fans of other teams started the whole 'no on else would take the job' rumor, and the university really couldn't do anything to stop them - what are they going to do, release documents showing the coaches they turned away?

I'm not going to list names, but if you honestly believe that in 2003 Alabama's only choice was Mike Shula, I don't know what else to say.
 

RedWave

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Yes, some of us actually knew folks involved in the process. Shula was the 'safe' hire, but there were a few real, proven coaches that approached the university, but were passed over due to the assumed need for a 'Bama man'. They reverted to the 'Bama man' requirement after the Fran and Price fiascos, and turned down several good coaches in favor of Shula.

Fans of other teams started the whole 'no on else would take the job' rumor, and the university really couldn't do anything to stop them - what are they going to do, release documents showing the coaches they turned away?

I'm not going to list names, but if you honestly believe that in 2003 Alabama's only choice was Mike Shula, I don't know what else to say.
I do fully believe that some of the folks on the inside would insist on a Bama guy. Especially given how things went with Curry, Fran, and Price. But there weren't any really solid Bama guys to choose from at that point. I was glad when Shula was hired, because I liked him as a player and his dad was a good coach. Then, I saw that the coaching gene didn't make it to Mike and was glad to see him go.

But I am still not on board with this idea that there were a lot of choices for us at that point. We had already had spring training, and it was late in the process when the Price disaster happened. I can not imagine a whole lot of reputable coaches wanting to sign up for what we had going on at the time, probation and all. If there were really good choices, I would be shocked, and say shame on our guys in charge for making that wrong choice.
 

Bamabuzzard

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You couldn't be more wrong, no matter how often you repeat it.

Shula took a job that was offered him because he was 'safe' - but there were several well-known coaches who reached out to Bama wanting the gig.

He was paid a lot of money to coast along and 'coach' a team without discipline. He was given an opportunity and he blew it. Yah, he didn't get us in trouble and wasn't a moral problem for the university - if that's the bar we set for coaches, literally millions of people would be his equal.

I'll be thankful until the day I die that Tebow chose Florida over Bama.

Now can we finally put the unfounded rumor to rest that no one else wanted the Bama job? It couldn't be more incorrect.
I also wonder in the thought process of hiring Shula was the thought of his last name being able to attract top recruits a reason he was hired?
 
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OakMtn4Bama

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I will always be thankful for his taking the job at a time when we were in such turmoil. He ran an honest program and seemed like a very nice guy and good image for the program. However, he seemed to run the time like it was an NFL team, leaving many things up to the players to take care of themselves. Many were not mature enough to do so. In any event, I wish him well.
 

Bamabuzzard

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I don't know if this is true or not but one name that I heard during that time was Tom Coughlin.
That time period has been so many years and national championships ago that I honestly can't remember any other names except for Sylvester Croom and Mike Shula. The only reason I still remember Sylvester Croom is because there is an ESPN 30 for 30 documentary about him that airs about once a year.
 

lowend

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He led a crappy program for 3/4 of my college days...and all of the ones when I was in the band and couldn't just leave as soon as the clock hit all zeroes. Nah, I'm fine with being petty.
I was there with you in MDB. There's just something about the memory of the Minnesota band playing Rocky Top after we lost the Music City Bowl that makes me think of Shula with not quite the same fondness as others.

Just let this sink in....Rocky Top starts around 21:00.

 
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UAinAthens

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Shula is a good QB coach. The Giants will regret hiring him as OC, I believe.

I'm like a lot here, I remember him fondly as a player, but felt he was way over his head as HC.

Years ago I postulated on this board what would have happened had Tebow picked Bama instead of UF. I still believe a lot would be different now, but I don't think it would have drastically altered the end result for Shula. What I believe is that Tebow would either have been developed better as a QB by Shula. Not sure how far, but definitely would have been further along. Shula's track record with QB is sufficient to indicate that he can take a limited passer and turn them into an effective one. (Shaun King TB had Shula as his QBC/OC the year of the Bert Emanuel incompletion that kept TB out of the Super Bowl. Cam Newton recently when he was QBC - not so much as OC. At the time there were two other QB but I don't remember them now) Maybe he would have gotten good enough to still be playing, who knows.

All of that being said, his daddy making a &^%$ of himself when he was replaced (especially since it involved spurning his beloved Dolphins) pretty much ended any fond feeling I have for the family. I hope eventually MS reconciles and realizes that the right thing happened. Its ironic that Dubose has been very open about the fact that he was not ready for his stint as HC. Hopefully Shula will one day realize the same.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Tell me this list of winners who were willing to crawl on their hands and knees on broken glass to coach Bama at that point.
But see that's DIFFERENT than the original question. There's a WIDE difference between the insane notion Shula did us some sort of favor (I mean, let's turn that around and ask who exactly was knocking down HIS door?) and the equally insane notion that Bob Stoops, Jim Tressel, or Larry Coker (probably the three hottest names in coaching back then in December 2002/May 2003) were going to chuck it and move to Alabama.

There's a wide variance of acceptability between those two poles.

Mike Riley turned us down, and he was a Bama guy. A few years later, he gladly takes the Nebraska job.
1) Riley turned us down in the FIRST search in December 2002, NOT the "oh hell, Mike Price lost his damned mind" search five months later.
2) But WHY did Riley turn us down?

Well.....he wanted time to think about it, and Mal Moore said, "Never mind."
3) Riley got hired at Nebraska TWELVE years later.....that's an entire school life for a kid. It ain't like he went there in 2003 when Nebraska canned Solich.


Jim Levitt turned us down, and if the story is true, even framed our offer.
1) AGAIN, you're talking about a DIFFERENT search.....
2) Leavitt interviewed on Tuesday and got a raise on Thursday
3) Leavitt got fired for striking a player during halftime, which is the only time you'll EVER hear his name mentioned in the same breath with Woody Hayes.


So let's look back at the FIRST search post-Franchione, the one that got us Mike Price.


Riley said no. Leavitt said no. OTHER NAMES in the search at that time?

Washington State's Mike Price, Oklahoma State's Les Miles, Oklahoma assistant Mike Stoops and West Virginia's Rich Rodriguez.

Moore's comment?

"There's been a lot of interest in this job -- I mean, a lot of interest -- from all over the country. It just takes time."


Other Names?


Walt Harris (Pitt)
Frank Beamer (Va Tech)


Now look at this NYT article from May 4, 2003.....and TELL me that Shula's name was the only one there....

1) Carl Torbush (blah!)
2) Tom Coughlin (yeah, the guy who would later win TWO Super Bowls - THAT guy)
3) Gene Stallings - note that while this article did say he would not return, there WAS mention at the time for Stallings to return with
Shula as a coordinator and meld him into the head coaching job


Now by the time the going got good, Mal Moore decided to turn inward as ESPN noted on May 6, 2003:

The big names here were Shula, Croom, and Richard Williamson. But go read THESE words carefully:

Former Jacksonville Jaguars coach Tom Coughlin, who has expressed interest in the Alabama job through intermediaries, likely will not be considered. Moore and some other prominent officials in the Alabama hierarchy agree that Coughlin, fired by the Jaguars after last season, possesses the respect, discipline and image that want in their next coach.

And also on May 4, 2003, there's this:

Besides Stallings -- who Witt denied was a candidate -- some possible candidates include former Tide players and NFL assistants Sylvester Croom and Mike Shula.

Other names thrown in to the mix were former defensive coordinator Carl Torbush and former Jacksonville Jaguars coach Tom Coughlin.

Two of Price's assistants, Joe Kines and Sparky Woods, have head coaching experience.

According to a report in Sunday's Tuscaloosa News, there are names among the college ranks that might be tossed into the mix: Missouri coach Gary Pinkel, Oklahoma State's Les Miles, Georgia Tech's Chan Gailey, Purdue's Joe Tiller, Oklahoma defensive coordinator Mike Stoops or Texas Tech's Mike Leach.


That was on May 4. By May 6, Moore had decided to go with an Alabama man, in large part because he felt that "outsiders" such as Franchione and Price really didn't get it.

The Athens News Courier (AL) for May 6, 2003 (page 24) lists the following candidates to replace Price:
Shula, Croom, Williamson, Coughlin, and Miles (whose name was in the 2002 search but said in this article he was never contacted)


And those are just the ones I recall off the top of my head. But this was not a program people were lining up to coach at the time.
You remember being in high school and wanting to date the really hawt girl? And you remember that time you sorta tried to work something out so maybe y'all would win up together and you could sorta see if maybe you had a chance and she was interested? You did it that way to that if she rejected your overtures NOBODY would know.

This goes in coaching all the time. There's a difference between "nobody would take it" and "knocking down the door to come here." Those are extremes. I can say very clearly that - even without appeals to the "connected" folks here - that the news media at the time was saying there were other candidates. Miles saying he was never contacted? That does NOT mean he didn't privately contact Mal and say "I''m interested" or "I'm still interested." Tom Coughlin - who I think would have been a GOOD hire because he DID have college experience at Boston College - expressed interest as well, that's documented.

You want to know who else was interested in December 2002 when Fran left? It's a BIG name at the time: Bill Parcells.


The Birmingham News reported Monday that Alabama athletic director Mal Moore declined a chance to pursue Parcells for the vacancy after a series of phone calls made last week.

A representative of Parcells, 61, called an Alabama alumnus Thursday with word the former New York Giants coach was interested in the Alabama job, the paper reported. No sources were cited.


Parcells was the Cowboys coach by the time that Price met his Destiny

I remember Croom being interested, but that's it. What has he done since? A few of you guys are poo-pooing the statement of Shula being there when nobody wanted this. Tell me who else we could have gotten. I am genuinely curious.
I have genuinely answered your question, too.
 

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