FPL was warned that people would die from heat after Irma but didn't help

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http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fl...ing-home-but-didnt-help/ar-BBJ8wcZ?li=BBnbcA1

An account supervisor for the power company was concerned by the words of the woman on the phone. The electricity was out at her mother's nursing home, the temperature felt like 110 degrees, and elderly people couldn't breathe.

The supervisor turned to one of the company's emergency specialists for advice, saying a caller feared the Hollywood nursing home could have "customers literally passing away because of the heat."

The co-worker's response: tell the nursing home to evacuate. "We can't expedite any outages. So tell 'em to make plans. It's going to be a long time, to be honest with you ... at least a week."
After the bodies were hauled out of the nursing home, FPL's command center finally ordered a repair crew there.

As the nursing home engineer had observed three days earlier, a transformer fuse had blown.

It took about 45 minutes to identify and fix the problem, Jones said.
Ugh. I bet there's some heads rolling at FPL right now if they haven't already.
 

Bazza

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TrampLineman

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Correct Bazza. While it can be a fuse, 2 miles down or up the road you could have 3 poles down with wire everywhere that people don't get to see.

Here is how restoration generally works:

1. Transmission lines have to be rode out first or there is no use in trying to fix anything. One downed phase on a vital transmission line can have a whole city out for a while depending on how quick it is found. This is done by helicopter, trucks, ATV's, etc. The transmission lines run from generation station to substations.

2. Hospitals, hotels, businesses that could be vital for life and/or could be vital for the community (like grocery stores, etc.)

3. Next you try to restore the biggest number of outages (meaning most meters per circuit) per outage. It would take forever to worry about one home or business (sadly) when the same amount of time fixing another outage could cut on 3,000 people instead of 3 people. Also in this group are the medical emergencies if at all possible. In the industry this is called fixing/repairing feeders which are generally on the main roads or into big communities.

4. Then we go to the taps which pull off the feeders, which then again kind of goes off the numbers game yet again. A tap or lateral as called in the trade, pull off the feeder and generally runs off side roads. For instance if you live in Highway 119, that feeder will be fixed before say your lateral on Johnson Road that pulls off Highway 119.

5. Then is the final sweep. It goes from pot/transformer to the house. If the house mast is pulled off the house then there is no chance of getting power until you call an electrician and have it fixed first. This can take a long time as it's more of a house to house (or call to call) deal to investigate. This is generally where people get hostile because their house has been out all week while a neighbor might have had power. Many issues can cause this, as the neighbor could be on a different circuit, tap or feeder than the other. That's something else the public doesn't really know about yet. Also another problem is many people confuse cable/phone lines for the utilities and this can take up a LOT of the investigating that could be used somewhere else.

That is the main thing to remember though. Just because you can walk outside and not see damage doesn't mean it's not there. You can even drive around and not see a truck but the line could run 4 miles into the woods down the road that feeds your circuit and you would never know they were there working. Trust me, sometimes we dread working 16+ hours a day in towns and cities where there is nothing but work and ticked off folks. A lot of those times we are away from our family and staying in the same miserable conditions the families are. I too slept in trailers, trucks, floors of gyms and in hotels with no power myself and still work the same amount or more hours. That's what people don't see.

Now about the story, there is fault to go around on everyone in my mind. To me the first being the nursing home for NOT having back up power. There is a reason hospitals have emergency generators ready to go at any time. Second, FPL is always horrible at getting orders out to crews and put them to work. I've worked 2 weeks there before and all I did was straighten out a leaning pole and changed out one bad transformer in 2 whole weeks. We could do that before lunch most days. They pretty much had no clue the West Coast of Florida was going to be affected like it was after Irma came on shore. They had us stationed in what they thought was out of the way only to have the eye go right over us. So they definitely deserve some blame too. FPL was really in the right for telling them to prepare for a week of more without power because everyone involved thought it was going to be really worse than it was, but FPL has to take blame as well for taking things slow as usual.

And it sucks because sometimes we take the brunt of their frustrations because people might see us in the truck sleeping in a Wal-Mart parking lot, but there is truly nothing we can do until companies like FPL give us work orders. If we took off to work where we wanted when we wanted then it would be nothing but chaos, that is truly what gets linemen and ground hands killed. Matter of fact last year during Irma, I had a crew from Ohio working (I won't say which utility it was) across the road from me and instead of riding the line out they just threw a switch in, in hopes it would hold. That's one of the biggest no-no's in the game, you ALWAYS ride the line out and see what is wrong. Not only can you hurt someone or some kids down the line who have no clue the line is down on their fence, but you can hurt your own guy for throwing in the switch even with an extendo stick (long yellow stick you'll see us use from the ground sometimes) as I've seen switches blow up ceramic and all and injure the person on the ground. Luckily as I ran across the road quickly to confront them and ask what happened the foreman told me and I was just happy I wasn't having to help get someone down or God forbid start CPR. But that type of thing can show you just how quickly things can become chaotic for us...
 

Bazza

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Thanks for your informative post, Barehand - and of course for all you do. Especially in the aftermath of these horrible storms!

If you are ever in my area, dinner and beverage is on me....and it would be my pleasure for sure.

Stay safe, brudda! ;)
 

TIDE-HSV

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I understood the process 230 set out above. It's frustrating, when you can see power coming on all around you. I've had to wait an extra day when power was on a block away. I'll always be astounded at the job the assembled utility crews did back in the April 2014 tornadoes. In that case, the transmission towers coming into Madison County were knocked down. Getting us up and running was such a patchwork job that one utility worker friend told me we were being fed by temporary transmission lines which were barely propped up off the ground. It astounded me that the towers are only rated for 100 mph winds, a minimal tornado. The storms lined up along the ROWs and just mowed down towers like paper clips. Spun concrete, which you see mostly in Europe now, will withstand 250 mph, but, in the end, if mother nature wants them down, they're coming down...
 

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The thing is Earle, most of our transmission lines are probably 50 years old or older. Very outdated but very expensive to fix. Most utility contracts run in the millions of dollars and that is probably on average a mile or so job. If FPL would have never come under fire they would have never set as many concrete poles as they have and yet they still have issues. Shows you how bad their system was and I'll tell anyone right now, their system was and is not close to being the worst I've seen. So far that goes to a utility that covers parts of Arkansas, Mississippi, Louisiana and East Texas.

Not too long ago I think it was the City of Coral Gables that actually sued FPL and said they breached a contract with restoration. It's very ugly down there for sure.

I will say though that FPL really got it right with calling out crews to help. It's hard to say which had more crews and workers as I've never looked it up, but both storms had the most I've ever seen easily. It might have been Matthew but I think that might have been skewed because where we staged at Daytona Speedway was hard to get into because it was so busy.

Bazza if I ever get back down your way and can actually check the site I will take you up on that:wink: Sometimes it's hard because we don't know until the very last minute where we head out to. Like with FPL, they stage EVERYBODY that is NOT FPL in Lake City to have our safety briefings, etc. in which they tell us their rules on working on their system and then from there we go God knows where and it's generally 2am in the morning before they seem to figure it out:biggrin:
 
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TIDE-HSV

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The thing is Earle, most of our transmission lines are probably 50 years old or older. Very outdated but very expensive to fix. Most utility contracts run in the millions of dollars and that is probably on average a mile or so job. If FPL would have never come under fire they would have never set as many concrete poles as they have and yet they still have issues. Shows you how bad their system was and I'll tell anyone right now, their system was and is not close to being the worst I've seen. So far that goes to a utility that covers parts of Arkansas, Louisiana and East Texas.

Not too long ago I think it was the City of Coral Gables that actually sued FPL and said they breached a contract with restoration. It's very ugly down there for sure.

I will say though that FPL really got it right with calling out crews to help. It's hard to say which had more crews and workers as I've never looked it up, but both storms had the most I've ever seen easily. It might have been Matthew but I think that might have been skewed because where we staged at Daytona Speedway was hard to get into because it was so busy.

Bazza if I ever get back down your way and can actually check the site I will take you up on that:wink: Sometimes it's hard because we don't know until the very last minute where we head out to. Like with FPL, they stage EVERYBODY that is NOT FPL in Lake City to have our safety briefings, etc. in which they tell us their rules on working on their system and then from there we go God knows where and it's generally 2am in the morning before they seem to figure it out:biggrin:
Well, in 2014, TVA had the chance to get it right with many hundreds of steel towers down. What did they replace with? - more LSTs...
 

92tide

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thanks for all of the info 230. my dad was a lifer at alabama power. he wasn't outside, he was an engineer. living in a small town that that had the regional office, he was on call (we had a separate phone jack at home) one week out of every 4. i remember many times during bad storms where he would be going between the phone and the radio in his car all night coordinating with the linemen.

he was already retired at the time of the 2011 tornados, but when i finally got in touch with my folks, he gave me a full rundown of the status of the power grid, both alabama power's and tva's. :)
 

TrampLineman

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Well, in 2014, TVA had the chance to get it right with many hundreds of steel towers down. What did they replace with? - more LSTs...
Sometimes though on storms like straight wind/tornadoes they don't have the chance to "load up" so to speak and have to use what's on hand to fix things if that makes sense. Most hurricanes the utilities already put in multiple orders of 18-wheelers full of wood poles because they will need it. Severe weather as we know here can hit say Tuscaloosa but miss Birmingham so they react instead of load up on material.

Plus one more thing I think everyone can agree on is this, utilities are well known for being VERY CHEAP! The CEO's make major money and yet many utilities will go on strike in the next few years because the utilities are trying to take more and more of our money and benefits. CEO makes over $100 million yet they want to nickel and dime us with pay, time, benefits, etc. Yet you can ask for them to fix a truck or get a new tool and it's like pulling teeth!:biggrin:
 

TIDE-HSV

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Sometimes though on storms like straight wind/tornadoes they don't have the chance to "load up" so to speak and have to use what's on hand to fix things if that makes sense. Most hurricanes the utilities already put in multiple orders of 18-wheelers full of wood poles because they will need it. Severe weather as we know here can hit say Tuscaloosa but miss Birmingham so they react instead of load up on material.

Plus one more thing I think everyone can agree on is this, utilities are well known for being VERY CHEAP! The CEO's make major money and yet many utilities will go on strike in the next few years because the utilities are trying to take more and more of our money and benefits. CEO makes over $100 million yet they want to nickel and dime us with pay, time, benefits, etc. Yet you can ask for them to fix a truck or get a new tool and it's like pulling teeth!:biggrin:
I think in 2014, they got around to using wood to hold up major transmission lines. Yes, economics was what TVA used as the excuse for continuing with the LSTs. Of course, that transfers a lot of the cost of outages to the public at large, when they guess wrong...
 

TrampLineman

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There is still a ton of transmission still on sticks these days. They'll ride it out until it falls.

They have some laminated wood poles out West that are very promising but I imagine costs are still their biggest problem. They are used for transmission and distribution (distribution is what serves us and of course transmission is sub to sub) and can be used unguyed in both settings which is pretty impressive. I wouldn't mind seeing them here to see how they compare against wood and concrete in hurricane zones.
 

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Thank you 230 for the insight and education. My day is complete as I have added some new information to some old brain cells.
 

cbi1972

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I understood the process 230 set out above. It's frustrating, when you can see power coming on all around you. I've had to wait an extra day when power was on a block away. I'll always be astounded at the job the assembled utility crews did back in the April 2014 tornadoes. In that case, the transmission towers coming into Madison County were knocked down. Getting us up and running was such a patchwork job that one utility worker friend told me we were being fed by temporary transmission lines which were barely propped up off the ground. It astounded me that the towers are only rated for 100 mph winds, a minimal tornado. The storms lined up along the ROWs and just mowed down towers like paper clips. Spun concrete, which you see mostly in Europe now, will withstand 250 mph, but, in the end, if mother nature wants them down, they're coming down...



I had to know what this looked like, and thought I would share
 

TrampLineman

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Thank you 230 for the insight and education. My day is complete as I have added some new information to some old brain cells.
You're welcome man and I'm still learning it myself. Like we say in the trade, you never quit learning. I have been lucky to have been trained by some old timers that I can still bend their ear even today and they will even tell you they are still learning. If you find a lineman that "knows it all" you better stay away:biggrin:

cbi, a lot of people think current concrete poles are unbreakable and solid but ours are made a lot like the videos you posted. They are hollowed out and full of re-bar. Sucks to cut the top out if we do a pole change and really sucks drilling holes in them. Most of the time they are pre-drilled and actually made for the pole we're changing out so everything goes into the pre-drilled holes but sometimes they don't. Not the best to work with because you have to have a crane drop most in. While they are stronger than wood and some steel, they are still prone to hitting the ground too believe it or not. People don't realize just how heavy two spans of wire can be as these days in towns we are mainly using .397 or .795 ACSR (Aluminum Conductor Steel Reinforced) and if an arm breaks and the wire comes off the pole it will have a very heavy strain to it. Same if ice hits, just a 1/4" of ice can add like 500lbs. per span or something close to that.
 

TIDE-HSV

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You're welcome man and I'm still learning it myself. Like we say in the trade, you never quit learning. I have been lucky to have been trained by some old timers that I can still bend their ear even today and they will even tell you they are still learning. If you find a lineman that "knows it all" you better stay away:biggrin:

cbi, a lot of people think current concrete poles are unbreakable and solid but ours are made a lot like the videos you posted. They are hollowed out and full of re-bar. Sucks to cut the top out if we do a pole change and really sucks drilling holes in them. Most of the time they are pre-drilled and actually made for the pole we're changing out so everything goes into the pre-drilled holes but sometimes they don't. Not the best to work with because you have to have a crane drop most in. While they are stronger than wood and some steel, they are still prone to hitting the ground too believe it or not. People don't realize just how heavy two spans of wire can be as these days in towns we are mainly using .397 or .795 ACSR (Aluminum Conductor Steel Reinforced) and if an arm breaks and the wire comes off the pole it will have a very heavy strain to it. Same if ice hits, just a 1/4" of ice can add like 500lbs. per span or something close to that.
I have a friend who lives in western Norway, like almost to the Atlantic Ocean, on a fjord. We started discussing power supply, particularly robustness. She lives in a pretty rural, thinly populated area. Their lines will withstand the equivalent of almost 1.5" ice, but that's not the end of the story. They actually have three different feeds to their house and have power as long as one operates. The last conversation we had, she commented offhandedly that our talk had reminded her that she needed to notify their power company that there was a tree down across their lines. I didn't even comment...
 

TrampLineman

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Yea things are way different across the pond for sure. To handle 1.5" is no joke either, ours is like 1/4" to 1/2" of ice. Different types of construction has a lot to do with it too. All the electric cooperatives use the NRECA spec book and investor owned utilities will generally have their own or borrow parts from NRECA with their own standards.
 

TIDE-HSV

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Yea things are way different across the pond for sure. To handle 1.5" is no joke either, ours is like 1/4" to 1/2" of ice. Different types of construction has a lot to do with it too. All the electric cooperatives use the NRECA spec book and investor owned utilities will generally have their own or borrow parts from NRECA with their own standards.
Her part of coastal Norway has a tendency more to ice than snow, just like here. The fact that their service was robust enough to support a tree, which she had forgotten to report to the utility certainly caught my attention. The last time I had a tree across the line, the total cost was something like $8K, although insurance paid all but the deductible. I had to upgrade everything to current code, which had changed greatly. I know have cutoffs at my meter base. After that, I needed to know if the common stayed connected to the utility, even with the cutoffs flipped. (Didn't want to energize it accidentally.) I had to move heaven and earth to find out and that was even with the CEO of Huntsville Utilities being a personal friend. (Turned out it does stay connected.)
 

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