(2018 thread) Active Shooter - Stoneman Douglas High School (near Coral Springs, FL)

Bazza

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I stand by my post (#174 above) that before any drastic measures are taken - we go through a process - as stated.

That being said...on the subject of allowing teachers to conceal carry.....IF that is a decision that moves forward.....maybe it could be purely voluntary and have a limit of how many you would have per school. With some kind of minimum number as a goal based on size of institution. And it would be not just teachers but staff. So maybe 5 in the entire school at any given time but no more than 10. And they would have to pass a competency test both physically and mentally AND undergo bi-annual special training as it pertains to a school incident. And whoever is carrying wouldn't be known to the general public.
 

cbi1972

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National Guard: Troops to Teachers

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Bamaro

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Glad to see you're following your own point from 15 hours ago...
I honestly dont know what you are trying to say or imply. I've been consistent. I dont want to see arming teachers as a policy. If an individual school or district wants to do that, that's the school's and the parents problem but I think its a bad idea.
 

CharminTide

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This is why it feels different:

Corporate America under pressure to cut ties with NRA

The latest company to distance itself from the NRA was insurer Chubb Ltd (CB.N), which on Friday said it would stop underwriting a controversial NRA-branded insurance policy for gun owners that covers legal costs in self-defense shootings.

Symantec Corp (SYMC.O) said on Friday it ended a program with the NRA offering discounts for its LifeLock identity theft product.

Late on Thursday, three rental car brands owned by Enterprise Holdings Inc said they were ending discount programs for NRA members. First National Bank of Omaha also said it would not renew a contract with the organization to issue an NRA-branded Visa card.

Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America, founded after the December 2012 Newtown, Connecticut, school shooting that killed 20 first-graders, sent letters to Apple Inc (AAPL.O) , AT&T Inc (T.N), Amazon, Alphabet Inc’s Google (GOOGL.O) division and Roku Inc (ROKU.O) on Friday, asking them to drop NRATV from their products.

About 22 corporations nationwide offer incentives to NRA members. Major companies such as FedEx Corp (FDX.N), which offers up to a 26 percent discount for NRA Business Alliance members, and Hertz (HTZ.N) rental car company, which offers NRA members up to 25 percent off rates, did not immediately respond to a request for comment on whether they would be cutting ties with the organization.
And this morning's Reuters article is already out of date:

MetLife ends discount program with NRA

SimpliSafe cuts ties with the NRA
 

TIDE-HSV

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I've bounced this off a number of teachers, active and retired. No only have I found no one in favor, I've found none who even knows another teacher who favors the idea, much less the 20% the president seems to like. I'd point out that the shooter went to a school where he knew there was an armed, trained deputy. It didn't slow him down. Maybe he knew the deputy too well. IDK. However, if an armed deputy didn't slow him down, I somehow doubt that an armed teacher would have...
 

Bamafaninco1

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I stand by my post (#174 above) that before any drastic measures are taken - we go through a process - as stated.

That being said...on the subject of allowing teachers to conceal carry.....IF that is a decision that moves forward.....maybe it could be purely voluntary and have a limit of how many you would have per school. With some kind of minimum number as a goal based on size of institution. And it would be not just teachers but staff. So maybe 5 in the entire school at any given time but no more than 10. And they would have to pass a competency test both physically and mentally AND undergo bi-annual special training as it pertains to a school incident. And whoever is carrying wouldn't be known to the general public.
You've been in a Six Sigma Class. Colorado by the way allows teachers to carry in the class room, they have to re qualify each semester with a 100 percent.
 

81usaf92

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I hear your point, but I don't think anyone has said that people shouldn't be allowed to own a gun.

I do wonder what the statistics are for a lone officer with a handgun, a few bullets, and no body armor taking down an assailant with an AR pattern rifle and extra magazines. Sure, it was his job. But he also was woefully underprepared for that situation. And now the philosophic approach I'm hearing is not that we should prevent kids from obtaining these weapons to begin with, but that we need to have more guards and more weapons in our schools.

From another angle, I suppose it's a really good thing we decided to ban fully automatic rifles in the past. Had we not, this upward trajectory of everyone wanting incrementally more powerful weaponry wouldn't be capped at things like an AR-15. The NFA seems to be a solid argument that banning certain weapons is ultimately a very effective strategy. But since we haven't made any enduring moves to control these AR pattern rifles, we're in a situation now where people are seriously suggesting that the best strategy to prevent school shootings is to arm teachers and have multiple officers patrolling hallways fully decked out in ARs and Kevlar. The same folks who claim to only seek freedom now advocate turning our schools into prisons. SMH.
I think 45 rounds in 3 clips, 2nd chance vest, and more cqc training than the shooter is plenty enough to at least make an attempt to save kids live. The guy is a total yellow bellied coward.
 

Relayer

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I've bounced this off a number of teachers, active and retired. No only have I found no one in favor, I've found none who even knows another teacher who favors the idea, much less the 20% the president seems to like. I'd point out that the shooter went to a school where he knew there was an armed, trained deputy. It didn't slow him down. Maybe he knew the deputy too well. IDK. However, if an armed deputy didn't slow him down, I somehow doubt that an armed teacher would have...
I don't know if we can get to 20%, but there apparently are some interested

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/20/us/ohio-concealed-weapons-sheriff/index.html

Maybe a deterrent to begin with, or maybe a quicker end to an attack.
 

RTR91

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I honestly dont know what you are trying to say or imply. I've been consistent. I dont want to see arming teachers as a policy. If an individual school or district wants to do that, that's the school's and the parents problem but I think its a bad idea.
What I said last night - take the political talk to the thread about gun control and let this thread be about the incident itself. One thread can be for those of us wanting the news, and the other can be about policy.
 

cbi1972

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What a "freaking pansy".

SMH

Absolutely sickening. I hope his cowardice haunts him until the day he dies.
1. Watch this video. People don't understand how Broward County School Sheriff Officers operate. I'll explain.

2. I spent about 18 months in 2012, 2013 and 2014 investigating Broward and Miami-Dade school policies and how those policies transfer to law enforcement practices.

3. My interest was initially accidental. I discovered an untold story of massive scale and consequence as a result of initial research into Trayvon Martin and his High School life.

4. What I stumbled upon was a Broward County law enforcement system in a state of conflict. The Broward County School Board and District Superintendent, entered into a political agreement with Broward County Law enforcement officials to stop arresting students for crimes.

5. The motive was simple. The school system administrators wanted to "improve their statistics" and gain state and federal grant money for improvements therein.

6. So police officials, the very highest officials of law enforcement (Sheriff and Police Chiefs), entered into a plan.

7. As soon as Miami-Dade began to receive the benefits (political and financial) from the scheme, Broward County joined on. The approach in Broward was identical as the approach in Miami-Dade.

8. It's important to remember, this was not an arbitrary change - this was a well-planned fundamental shift in the entire dynamic of how teenagers would be treated when they engaged in criminal conduct.

9. The primary problem was the policy conflicted with laws; and over time the policy began to create outcomes where illegal behavior by students was essentially unchecked by law enforcement.

10. Initially the police were excusing misdemeanor behaviors. However, it didn't take long until felonies, even violent felonies (armed robberies, assaults and worse) were being excused.

11. The need to continue lowering the arrests year-over-year meant that increasingly more severe unlawful behavior had to be ignored. Over time even the most severe of unlawful conduct was being filtered by responding police.

12. We found out about it, when six cops blew the whistle on severe criminal conduct they were being instructed to hide. The sheriff and police Chiefs were telling street cops and school cops to ignore ever worsening criminal conduct.

13. The police were in a bind. They were encountering evidence of criminal conduct and yet they had to hide the conduct. There were examples of burglary and robbery where the police had to hide the recovered evidence in order to let the kids get away without reports.

14. The police would take the stolen merchandise and intentionally falsify police records to record stolen merchandise as if they just found it on the side of the road.

15. They put drugs and stolen merchandise in bags, and sent it to storage rooms in the police department. Never assigning the recovery to criminal conduct. Stolen merchandise was just sitting in storage rooms gathering dust.

16. They couldn't get the stuff back to the victim because that would mean the police would have to explain how they took custody of it. So they just hid it. To prove this was happening one of the officers told me where to look, and who the victim was.

17. At first I didn't believe them. However, after getting information from detectives, cross referencing police reports, and looking at the "found merchandise", I realized they were telling the truth.

18. A massive internal investigation took place and the results were buried. Participating in the cover-up were people in the media who were connected to the entire political apparatus.

19. The sheriff and police chief could always deny the violent acts (assaults, rapes, beatings etc.) were being ignored; that's why the good guys in the police dept gave the evidence of the stolen merchandise. That physical evidence couldn't be ignored and proved the scheme.

20. From 2012 though 2018 it only got worse. In Broward and Miami-Dade it is almost impossible for a student to get arrested. The staff within the upper levels of LEO keep track of arrests and when a certain number is reached all else is excused.

21. Well it didn't take long for criminal gangs in Broward and Miami-Dade to realize the benefit of using students for their criminal activities. After all, the kids would be let go... so organized crime became easier to get away with if they enlisted high-school kids.

22. As criminals became more adept at the timing within the offices of the officials, they timed their biggest crimes to happen after the monthly maximum arrest quota was made.

23. The most serious of armed robberies etc. were timed for later in the month or quarter. The really serious crimes were timed in the latter phases of the data collection periods. This way the student criminals were almost guaranteed to get away with it.

24. Now. You can see how that entire process gets worse over time. Present corruption (the need to hide the policy) expands in direct relationship to the corruption before it. This is where the School Police come into play.

25. Understanding the risk behind the scheme, it became increasingly important to put the best corrupt cops in the schools. *BEST* as in *SMARTEST*. Those SRO's became the ones who were best at hiding the unlawful conduct.

26. Again, over time, the most corrupt police officers within the system became the police inside the schools. These officers were those who are best skilled at identifying the political objectives and instructions.

27. Those "School Cops" also have special privileges. It's a great gig. They get free "on campus" housing close to the schools they are assigned to etc. They're crooked as hell and the criminal kids how just how to play them. It's a game. Also an open secret.

28. A lot of it came out during an earlier *internal affairs* investigation. Unfortunately the behavior never changed because the politics never changed. It's still going on:

29. For years this has been happening and no-one cared. Crimes happen; students excused; victims ignored; etc. The Broward County School and Law Enforcement system is designed to flow exactly this way. It's politics.

30. Only then a Parkland school shooting happened. For Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel this had to be an "oh [crap]" moment; but not for the reasons the media initially thought. If people start digging, they'll discover the shooter was one of those previously excused students

31. The same sentiment applies for Sheriff Scott's partner, School Superintendent Robert Runcie (previously from Chicago),.... things are very risky if people start digging.
https://twitter.com/TheLastRefuge2/status/966854507744374784
It goes even deeper than that.
 
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RTR91

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Sources: Coral Springs police upset at some Broward deputies for not entering school



When Coral Springs police officers arrived at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, on February 14 in the midst of the school shooting crisis, many officers were surprised to find not only that Broward County Sheriff's Deputy Scot Peterson, the armed school resource officer, had not entered the building, but that three other Broward County Sheriff's deputies were also outside the school and had not entered, Coral Springs sources tell CNN. The deputies had their pistols drawn and were behind their vehicles, the sources said, and not one of them had gone into the school.

With direction from the Broward deputies who were outside, Coral Springs police soon entered the building where the shooter was. New Broward County Sheriff's deputies arrived on the scene, and two of those deputies and an officer from Sunrise, Florida, joined the Coral Springs police as they went into the building.

Some Coral Springs police were stunned and upset that the four original Broward County Sheriff's deputies who were first on the scene did not appear to join them as they entered the school, Coral Springs sources tell CNN. It's unclear whether the shooter was still in the building when they arrived.
 

Bamaro

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What I said last night - take the political talk to the thread about gun control and let this thread be about the incident itself. One thread can be for those of us wanting the news, and the other can be about policy.
It was related. If someone is complaining about a deputy not doing his job, how can we expect a school teacher to do better:conf3:
 

crimsonaudio

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It was related. If someone is complaining about a deputy not doing his job, how can we expect a school teacher to do better:conf3:
LOL do you really believe all cops are such yellow cowards - I know several that would charge in with only a knife to save some kids.
 

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