The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

BamaJama17 said:

Wrong, something was done in 1994 and it had little to no effect. Chicago, LA, NYC, and Baltimore have done plenty and have very high murder rates.

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Are local gun laws ineffective because of their very nature, or because they can be circumvented with a short drive?

And let's be clear--before the usual unfocused accusations start flying--I am not advocating a gun ban. I just want an honest discussion.

crimsonaudio said:

Again, please detail precisely what you want to see done.

Just repeating 'we should do something' won't affect a thing.

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I've already said most of what I want done.

A national one strike system for gun ownership. (the main one.)
Background checks for all gun owners. Put proof it on your DL, hunting license, carry permit, whatever.
Stiff sentences if you get caught with a gun without background check or on the one strike list.

2003TIDE said:

Whatever. You think cities with gun laws are a valid excuse for not having national laws? That's nonsense.

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If these laws are so valid and legit working, then why do thousands of people in those cities die every year from weapons that are prohibited in those cities?? State’s rights. It’s nonsense that laws in a dozen major US cities should apply to all 50 states.

jthomas666 said:

Are local gun laws ineffective because of their very nature, or because they can be circumvented with a short drive?

And let's be clear--before the usual unfocused accusations start flying--I am not advocating a gun ban. I just want an honest discussion.

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Well I work in a maximum security prison and I can tell you that many of those inmates that I’ve talked to can get these weapons just as quick and easy on the black market as I can buy toilet paper at Wal-Mart.

BamaJama17 said:

If these laws are so valid and legit working, then why do thousands of people in those cities die every year from weapons that are prohibited in those cities?? State’s rights. It’s nonsense that laws in a dozen major US cities should apply to all 50 states.

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Sigh. Go back and read my statement and jthomas's statement.

There will be no such thing as a local "legit working" gun law. People can just drive across state lines and buy a gun and go back. National laws will be the only answer.

Your argument using city laws failing as "facts" doesn't really have a leg to stand on

crimsonaudio said:

I'm fine with all of those.

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I think those are reasonable. I agree with you that banning certain types of guns will have little or no effect. The more I think of it, the more #2 and #3 address some of the private sales issue. Although the seller needs to have some responsibility to check the age and proof of background checks if we do move to universal background checks.

What are your thoughts about raising the gun purchase age? I'd like to see the sale of handguns and semi-automatic be the same age (21) from both licensed and private sellers. You can exempt "hunting" guns(Bolt action,break action, black powder,etc.) Too far for you?

BamaJama17 said:

Wrong, something was done in 1994 and it had little to no effect. Chicago, LA, NYC, and Baltimore have done plenty and have very high murder rates.

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Because guns are still way too easy to obtain. Local laws are too easy to circumvent. Thats why we need a change nationally.

2003TIDE said:

Sigh. Go back and read my statement and jthomas's statement.

There will be no such thing as a local "legit working" gun law. People can just drive across state lines and buy a gun and go back. National laws will be the only answer.

Your argument using city laws failing as "facts" doesn't really have a leg to stand on

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And it will have the same effect as prohibition did. This is just a huge black market waiting to be opened. Also city laws failing does have a leg to stand on because they are in fact failing. People will still get weapons that have been made illegal no matter what laws exist. National laws are nothing but a false sense of security and hope.

I see we've gone full bore into the angry impasse the other guy just won't see the "facts" the way I see them phase...

In other words, when you start insulting others and saying their concerns are illegitimate excuses you do more to shut down conversation.

If we are going to make even the smallest changes then it is not going to be easy. It will be hard work. Yet some of you just want "the other side" to shut up and sit down. I've even seen you say that asking for detailed plans and logical rationale that the idea will actually work is actually a surreptitious way to close off debate.

It has become ridiculous, but it's not surprising. This is how it ends every time. And you can point fingers at the strictly Pro 2A side and even those of us open to better enforcement of current law and some limited new law(s) if they will make our world safer. But when you stifle debate by being obstinate, insults, and laziness then maybe a look in the mirror is in order.

The above is not intended for any one person(s) but I have seen it crop up here and it's all over social and other media. Everyone goes back to their safe spaces of cliches and nothing gets done. We quit treating each other like people instead of the opposition and nothing gets done. We insult each other and nothing changes.

And mind you, NO ONE can know for sure what will work short of total confiscation and destruction of every gun in the world.

/rant

crimsonaudio said:

Maybe I'm reading it incorrectly but it seems that he's suggesting that even if we crack down on sales the black market won't be impacted - those willing to buy them illegally will continue to do so.

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I think to some extent the black market will always exist. It is unreasonable to think otherwise. Just as it is unreasonable to say all these shootings would still occur if the shooter had to acquire the gun through the black market.

Well as much as we have talked about what needs/should be done, I wanna know how a gun ban, buyback, or confiscation would be enforced in a nation would tens of millions of gun owners and combined with hundreds of millions of guns.

BamaJama17 said:

Well as much as we have talked about what needs/should be done, I wanna know how a gun ban, buyback, or confiscation would be enforced in a nation would tens of millions of gun owners and combined with hundreds of millions of guns.

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More excuses to not do anything

Countries like Sweden and Switzerland can have high gun ownership with lower crimes rates. If this country can just ignore the NRA/2A purist crowd for a minute, I'm sure we can find a reasonable solution somewhere in the middle of where we are now and zero guns too.

2003TIDE said:

More excuses to not do anything

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That’s not an excuse, it’s a question that you obviously have no answer to.

BamaJama17 said:

That’s not an excuse, it’s a question that you obviously have no answer to.

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Well you've offered no answer, only reasons why things won't work. People like you aren't really helpful.