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  1. #27
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cbi1972 View Post
    I, for one, don't want the gun culture to go away.

    I don't want people to be freaked out when they see an ordinary citizen in a grocery store with a pistol in a holster.

    I don't want people to think that guns are for police and military.

    I don't want people to think "guns = bad"

    I don't want to see school shootings, either, but none of the "solutions" I see will stop them without unduly restricting what I consider to be a fundamental right.

    You haven't seen problems until you have seen an amoral government up against a citizenry without the power to resist.
    just mho, but i think part of the issue is that we as a culture have normalized walking around armed in public much to our detriment. that and we have normalized the idea that people should be armed to protect themselves from governmental tyranny.
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  2. #28
    BamaNation Hall of Fame cbi1972's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    just mho, but i think part of the issue is that we as a culture have normalized walking around armed in public much to our detriment. that and we have normalized the idea that people should be armed to protect themselves from governmental tyranny.
    What is normal in Anniston or Kennesaw is not normal in Washington DC, New York, and San Francisco.
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  3. #29
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cbi1972 View Post
    What is normal in Anniston or Kennesaw is not normal in Washington DC, New York, and San Francisco.
    not even sure what you mean by that.
    The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

    - George Orwell

    If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they donít have to worry about the answers.

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  4. #30
    BamaNation All-American bama_wayne1's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Displaced Bama Fan View Post
    Gun death types - accidental & intentional.

    Accidental - not enough training, careless (mishandling, showing off, weapon not stored properly to allow access by a child), incapacitated (drunk/drugged)

    Intentional - malicious with aforethought, self-defense, freaking insane

    Did that help?

    On a more serious note:

    How to stop - Give a full psyche test to anyone who wants to purchase a gun. Review criminal history, medical history, blood test, review all educational records (including school counselor's & Principal/VP/Teacher notes in student's file), review social media, review job history, etc. I don't know man, I really just don't know.
    So do you want a full psyche to anyone who wants to speak? The 2nd amendment is a right just like the first.

  5. #31
    BamaNation All-American bama_wayne1's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    i think your number is probably a bit high. marketing for firearms is based greatly on selling the "tactical" (tacticool ) part of owning and carrying firearms, and it is not uncommon for the gop and nra to couch their advocacy in protecting one's self and family from tyrannical government and some imagined dystopic society. protecting family and loved ones (or hunting for that matter) does not require high powered military grade arms, or the ability to push high volumes of lead downrange in short amounts of time.
    I am a member of the NRA and I see a lot of literature. Never once have I seen any that highlight protecting yourself from a tyrannical government. I don't know that it is true but for the most part they refer to a lone gunman or terrorist.

  6. #32
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bama_wayne1 View Post
    I am a member of the NRA and I see a lot of literature. Never once have I seen any that highlight protecting yourself from a tyrannical government. I don't know that it is true but for the most part they refer to a lone gunman or terrorist.
    it is a sentiment that has often been posted on this board and is also very common among gun advocates.

    link

    Two-out-of-three Americans recognize that their constitutional right to own a gun was intended to ensure their freedom.
    The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 65% of American Adults think the purpose of the Second Amendment is to make sure that people are able to protect themselves from tyranny. Only 17% disagree, while another 18% are not sure.
    link
    It was late January, six weeks after the shooting in Newtown, Conn. The Senate Judiciary Committee was holding its first hearing in the aftermath on what to do about gun violence.

    Seated at the witness table was Wayne LaPierre, CEO of the National Rifle Association. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., had a question for the NRA chief: Did he agree with the point of view that people needed firepower to protect themselves from the government?

    "Senator, I think without any doubt, if you look at why our Founding Fathers put it there, they had lived under the tyranny of King George and they wanted to make sure that these free people in this new country would never be subjugated again and have to live under tyranny," LaPierre said.

    The same argument is being made by a smaller, more strident gun lobbyist, the Gun Owners of America.

    "I think principally the Second Amendment deals with keeping the government from going astray in a tyrannical direction," says Larry Pratt, the group's executive director.
    The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

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  7. #33
    BamaNation All-American bama_wayne1's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    i think your number is probably a bit high. marketing for firearms is based greatly on selling the "tactical" (tacticool ) part of owning and carrying firearms, and it is not uncommon for the gop and nra to couch their advocacy in protecting one's self and family from tyrannical government and some imagined dystopic society. protecting family and loved ones (or hunting for that matter) does not require high powered military grade arms, or the ability to push high volumes of lead downrange in short amounts of time.
    What do you mean by military grade arms? AR15 is not a military grade firearm as it does not have a select fire lever to change to full auto. Full auto is illegal to own without a ton of paperwork and expense. If you mean any weapon used by the military then you have to outlaw shotguns and pistols.

  8. #34
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Tidewater's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    how the "sovereigns" are making their voice heard
    If most Americans supported making Roman Catholicism the official religion of the United States would you just shrug and accept that decision? Or is there a higher standard for things that run counter to the Constitution?

    In their sovereign constitution-making capacity, they already have made their voices heard, when they adopted the current Constitution, which denies to the Federal government the power to infringe upon the people's right to bear arms. You may not like that provision, but to eliminate/modify that provision is going to take an amendment debate.
    If you want to renew that debate (and advances in weapons technology since 1787 make that not an unreasonable position), then go ahead. Propose your amendment. But in the absence of that new amendment, we have already had the debate and the side that wanted to give the federal government that power lost.
    Last edited by Tidewater; February 15th, 2018 at 05:34 PM. Reason: typo

  9. #35
    BamaNation Hall of Fame cbi1972's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    not even sure what you mean by that.
    We don't have a single culture.

    You said that certain beliefs and behaviors are normalized, but there is enough variety in beliefs and behaviors that it can't be true as a general statement.

    The examples of Anniston and Kennesaw are small southern cities in conservative states where gun rights are protected.

    Washington DC, New York, and San Francisco are the opposite: large coastal cities where strict gun control and a desire for even more gun control is the norm, and the average person would be alarmed at an ordinary armed person.

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bama_wayne1 View Post
    I am a member of the NRA and I see a lot of literature. Never once have I seen any that highlight protecting yourself from a tyrannical government. I don't know that it is true but for the most part they refer to a lone gunman or terrorist.
    it is a sentiment that has often been posted on this board and is also very common among gun advocates.

    link

    link
    Absolutely correct. The ability to resist government tyranny is the real reason for the Second Amendment. Burglars and whitetails are secondary.

    But the NRA is a political action committee, so it would be a bit weird to condemn government power while simultaneously attempting to wield it, though it would be nice to see reminders of the real reason for the Second Amendment.
    Last edited by cbi1972; February 15th, 2018 at 11:29 AM.
    Audemus jura nostra defendere
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  10. #36
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bama_wayne1 View Post
    What do you mean by military grade arms? AR15 is not a military grade firearm as it does not have a select fire lever to change to full auto. Full auto is illegal to own without a ton of paperwork and expense. If you mean any weapon used by the military then you have to outlaw shotguns and pistols.
    the ar-15 is basically the civilian version of the m16/m4.
    The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

    - George Orwell

    If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they donít have to worry about the answers.

    ó Thomas Pynchon

  11. #37
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tidewater View Post
    If most Americans supported making Roman Catholicism the official religion of the United States would you just shrug and accept that decision? Or it there a higher standard for things that run counter to the Constitution?

    In their sovereign constitution-making capacity, they already have made their voices heard, when they adopted the current Constitution, which denies to the Federal government the power to infringe upon the people's right to bear arms. You may not like that provision, but to eliminate/modify that provision is going to take an amendment debate.
    If you want to renew that debate (and advances in weapons technology since 1787 make that not an unreasonable position), then go ahead. Propose your amendment. But in the absence of that new amendment, we have already had the debate and the side that wanted to give the federal government that power lost.
    correct, these continued shootings are just a price we pay.
    The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

    - George Orwell

    If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they donít have to worry about the answers.

    ó Thomas Pynchon

  12. #38
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cbi1972 View Post
    We don't have a single culture.

    You said that certain beliefs and behaviors are normalized, but there is enough variety in beliefs and behaviors that it can't be true as a general statement.

    The examples of Anniston and Kennesaw are small southern cities in conservative states where gun rights are protected.

    Washington DC, New York, and San Francisco are the opposite: large coastal cities where strict gun control and a desire for even more gun control is the norm, and the average person would be alarmed at an ordinary armed person.



    Absolutely correct. The ability to resist government tyranny is the real reason for the Second Amendment. Burglars and whitetails are secondary.

    But the NRA is a political action committee, so it would be a bit weird to condemn government power while simultaneously attempting to wield it, though it would be nice to see reminders of the real reason for the Second Amendment.
    gun rights protected <> being able to walk around in public with a loaded gun on your hip

    i have a feeling it would be entertaining on some level to watch you stand up to your tyrannical government.
    The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

    - George Orwell

    If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they donít have to worry about the answers.

    ó Thomas Pynchon

  13. #39
    BamaNation Hall of Fame cbi1972's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    gun rights protected <> being able to walk around in public with a loaded gun on your hip

    i have a feeling it would be entertaining on some level to watch you stand up to your tyrannical government.
    It would be approximately as entertaining as a school shooting.
    Audemus jura nostra defendere
    "When a loaf of bread looks like a banquet, I've no right buying tobacco. " - Grandpa Joe

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