The Perpetual Gun Control Thread - Page 4
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  1. #40
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cbi1972 View Post
    It would be approximately as entertaining as a school shooting.
    i would imagine that the idiot that did the shooting yesterday considered the public school system a tyrannical government entity
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  3. #41
    BamaNation All-American bama_wayne1's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    the ar-15 is basically the civilian version of the m16/m4.
    I agree, but they are just a semi auto rifle. The real significance of the AR platform is the ability to add accessories. For instance you can have peep sights and a scope and a laser sight at the same time. A standard 30 caliber deer gun has the equivalent power and looks nothing like a military weapon. I don't believe in committing acts of violence but shotguns in close quarter have a better chance of doing damage. That's why when special ops are on patrol they generally carry a rifle, shotgun and a pistol or two.

  4. #42

    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    the ar-15 is basically the civilian version of the m16/m4.
    Well, to be fair, the AR has gotten a lot of attention lately (due to so many mass murderers choosing them), but the reality is far more people are killed annually with pistols than with rifles.

    I'm NOT saying this as if there's not terrible consequences to this mass shooting - its HORRIBLE and my heart breaks for the families - but in the grand scheme of things, this mass shooting doesn't matter. It's literally a tiny blip on the stat sheet of gun violence in the US. And very, very few of the gun deaths in the US come from anything other than pistols.

    This is why I say if you want to change things, we need to really address the fundamental issues. I can almost guarantee someone will promote a poorly named 'assault weapons ban' in congress after this - it always happens - but no one seems to care that these rifles aren't the root issue. Why is the US so violent? Something is different here, and it's not just the number of guns.

    I'm not suggesting that some sort of modification of federal gun laws won't help, but it rings hollow when the US averages twice as many people killed every day in the US (36.4 deaths/day, excluding suicide). These mass shootings are horrible, but account for a tiny fraction of those killed annually in the US. Something is broken, and I want to know what it is - and it's not just gun laws....
    Oderint dum metuant - Lucius Accius

  5. #43
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CharminTide's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bama_wayne1 View Post
    I agree, but they are just a semi auto rifle. The real significance of the AR platform is the ability to add accessories. For instance you can have peep sights and a scope and a laser sight at the same time. A standard 30 caliber deer gun has the equivalent power and looks nothing like a military weapon. I don't believe in committing acts of violence but shotguns in close quarter have a better chance of doing damage. That's why when special ops are on patrol they generally carry a rifle, shotgun and a pistol or two.
    This is the main reason I posted how Australia stratified their firearm licenses. Theirs was a pretty simple system to understand, but also detailed enough to avoid the nebulous "military style weapon" designation.

  6. #44

    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    correct, these continued shootings are just a price we pay.
    Yup. If people really want an AUS type result, then they need to propose a Constitutional Amendment.

    I think we can figure out another solution, personally, but it will mean addressing some root problems that will require both sides of the argument to face some uncomfortable truths.
    Oderint dum metuant - Lucius Accius

  7. #45
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bamaro's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cbi1972 View Post
    What is normal in Anniston or Kennesaw is not normal in Washington DC, New York, and San Francisco.
    The republican congress & nra wants it to be.

  8. #46
    BamaNation All-American CrimsonNagus's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Everyone saying that there are no solutions or stricter gun laws will not work, please prove it.

    Fact is, the US has more mass shootings then any other country. The US owns more guns per capita then any other country. The US makes up about 5% of the world population but, Americans own about 48% of civilian-owned guns in the world. There has already been 18 school shootings in 2018. No other civilized country has this problem and they all have stricter gun laws. So, those of you saying better laws will not work... prove it! There are plenty of examples worldwide where stricter gun controls has worked but, people here continue to deny its effectiveness. So prove to me it will not work.

    We have to do something. 18 school shootings in 45 days but, let's not doing anything because there are no solutions. Continually doing the same thing and expecting different results is called stupidity. This country is being stupid about gun control and it is time for a change. Nothing will happen though, because this country cares more about their right to guns than stopping mass shootings.

    I know some are going to blast my comments but, this is how I feel. I'm sick and tired of the gun culture in this country. I'm sick and tired of seeing these shootings in the news. I'm sick and tired of a government that only offers prayers and condolences but, refuses to even bring serious discussion to the table.

    I'm not against gun ownership, I just want stricter laws. The Australian laws look like a great starting point IMO. How many innocent lives is our gun freedom worth?
    Last edited by CrimsonNagus; February 15th, 2018 at 11:53 AM.

  9. #47
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bamaro's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    the ar-15 is basically the civilian version of the m16/m4.
    Its the image that it represents. Even if it has completely identical capabilities as a 'normal' looking rifle it would still attract the nuts because of the way it looks. Nuts feel more empowered with it.

  10. #48

    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonNagus View Post
    Everyone saying that there are no solutions or stricter gun laws will not work, please prove it.

    Fact is, the US has more mass shootings then any other country. The US owns more guns per capita then any other country. The US makes up about 5% of the world population but, Americans own about 48% of civilian-owned guns in the world. There has already been 18 school shootings in 2018. No other civilized country has this problem and they all have stricter gun laws. So, those of you saying better laws will not work... prove it! There are plenty of examples worldwide where stricter gun controls has worked but, people here continue to deny its effectiveness. So prove to me it will not work.

    We have to do something. 18 school shootings in 45 days but, let's not doing anything because there are no solutions. Continually doing the same thing and expecting different results is called stupidity. This country is being stupid about gun control and it is time for a change. Nothing will happen though, because this country cares more about their right to guns than stopping mass shootings.
    I think you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who isn't sick of the violence.

    I think we all know the answer is multifaceted, but the 'gun law' solution is particularly tough - so I'll ask you, what laws do you propose we pass that will help curb the violence while not getting immediately struck down by the courts? I've said it over and over, the AUS solution is simply impossible here without a Constitutional Amendment, so what do you propose?

    This isn't directed at you, but I get so tired of people acting as if we gun owners don't care or don't want to see this problem addressed. We're called names and attacked across the internet as being selfish, heartless, evil - yet when pressed, the solutions that are given are almost always "uhh, I dunno, it worked in Australia..."
    Oderint dum metuant - Lucius Accius

  11. #49
    BamaNation All-SEC Bamafaninco1's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    nevermind.
    Last edited by Bamafaninco1; February 15th, 2018 at 12:31 PM. Reason: nevermind

  12. #50
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonaudio View Post
    Possibly, I simply thought about the incredible number of firearm owners I know and couldn't think of a single one who has fantasies about a breakdown in society or a hero complex.


    I guess that all depends on who kicks in your front door. If three or four armed people broke into your home, I'm betting you'd understand why some feel the need for high capacity magazines.

    Further, if I may, let me add that unless / until everyone realizes that comments like 'high powered military grade arms' are emotional and quite silly in the context of what's available, we'll get nowhere. It's the same thing as those who constantly criticize Trump / Obama / whoever is in the WH - at some point, if you cannot speak in factual and unemotional terms when discussing a topic, you're only going to reach people who already agree with you.

    Let me finish with this - I'm not unwilling to discuss magazine limitations, etc. I think they're pointless, but again, they may work - I cannot see what the future holds. But I'm only willing to discuss these sorts of compromises if both sides are willing to dial down the rhetoric and speak in facts.

    Ultimately, we can point fingers all day, but those who wish to solve this problem via gun control laws need to explain exactly what they think needs to be done and how it will work in the real world. Working around 2A and the subsequent SCOTUS rulings makes that tough.
    This is one of my fears and it's largely media-driven. I'd bet 95% of the public now believes there is something unique and deadly about an AR-15, which is basically just a .224 (or similar) semi-automatic rifle. There is one exception but it's critical - the AR-15 and similar rifles will accept large magazines. We limited mags once and it worked to some degree. It's not perfect, because mags can be exchanged quickly. There wasn't the political will even to keep that limitation in place. The technology-based assault weapon ban, which also depended on cosmetics, was largely ineffective. The reversing a year ago of the inclusion of mentally ill in the data base was a huge step backwards...
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  13. #51

    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    The reversing a year ago of the inclusion of mentally ill in the data base was a huge step backwards...
    But that's not actually what happened - there were lots of people against that law, not just gun-rights advocates. Not that I expect the media to accurately portray it when they have the chance to print an incendiary headline instead...

    https://www.snopes.com/congress-gun-legal-mental/
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  14. #52
    BamaNation All-American bama_wayne1's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    This is one of my fears and it's largely media-driven. I'd bet 95% of the public now believes there is something unique and deadly about an AR-15, which is basically just a .224 (or similar) semi-automatic rifle. There is one exception but it's critical - the AR-15 and similar rifles will accept large magazines. We limited mags once and it worked to some degree. It's not perfect, because mags can be exchanged quickly. There wasn't the political will even to keep that limitation in place. The technology-based assault weapon ban, which also depended on cosmetics, was largely ineffective. The reversing a year ago of the inclusion of mentally ill in the data base was a huge step backwards...
    I don't believe there will be any change unless and until this country can pass an amendment to the constitution. Since we can't get our congress to agree on anything that will probably never happen.

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