The Perpetual Gun Control Thread - Page 6
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  1. #66
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonaudio View Post
    I think you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who isn't sick of the violence.

    I think we all know the answer is multifaceted, but the 'gun law' solution is particularly tough - so I'll ask you, what laws do you propose we pass that will help curb the violence while not getting immediately struck down by the courts? I've said it over and over, the AUS solution is simply impossible here without a Constitutional Amendment, so what do you propose?

    This isn't directed at you, but I get so tired of people acting as if we gun owners don't care or don't want to see this problem addressed. We're called names and attacked across the internet as being selfish, heartless, evil - yet when pressed, the solutions that are given are almost always "uhh, I dunno, it worked in Australia..."
    I disagree that a constitutional amendment is necessary to deal with the issue. It might be to go as far as Australia went, but most of the proposals being made by gun control proponents don't go nearly that far. The Supreme Court's decision in Heller v. DC, which is the leading case on the matter, made it clear that the government has a lot of latitude to regulate firearms, including licensing requirements, outlawing certain categories of weapons, etc., it just can't ban them outright. The federal government and most states are not even close to what Heller suggested the limits might be on their ability to regulate.

    Second, since you say you want to see this issue addressed but it would require a constitutional amendment, I'm just curious if you are saying you would be in favor of a constitutional amendment?

  2. #67
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    but when you present the idea to folks that guns are a guard against governmental tyranny, you can't assume that only like minded folks will agree with you about what constitutes tyranny. hell, there were folks on this board swearing up and down that we were the victims of tyranny because they had to sign up for healthcare.
    Perceived governmental tyranny is immaterial to probably 97% of this type of shooter. He probably would respond "Say whut?" to the term "Ruby Ridge"...
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  3. #68
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    what i am saying is that dealing with high capacity weapons that seem to be the weapon of choice in many of these mass shootings is only one of the many things that need to be dealt with to address gun violence. i realize mass shootings are a relatively small number of the total gun casualties, but they are still horrific and need to be dealt with. there is nowhere else in the world where mass shootings happen with the regularity that they do here.

    the something (or at least one thing) that has changed since i was a kid is that guns are being sold like a consumer good which you should buy that can be tricked out like a motorcycle or you can get the latest greatest technology like with your big screen hdtv or whole house sound system.
    Sort of reminds me of the scene in The Sum of all Fears:

    President Fowler: We gotta update these fire drills, Billy. I mean, if the .... ever hits the fan, I'm not going underground. This place is a gd tomb down there!

    Bill Cabot: We've also gotta choose someone else to face off against besides the Russians all the time.

    President Fowler: Really? Let's see. Who else has 27,000 nukes for us to worry about?

    Bill Cabot: It's the guy with one I'm worried about.

  4. #69
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    Perceived governmental tyranny is immaterial to probably 97% of this type of shooter. He probably would respond "Say whut?" to the term "Ruby Ridge"...
    now that it's coming out that he was hooked up with white nationalists, he is probably an avowed 3%er

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  5. #70
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    now that it's coming out that he was hooked up with white nationalists, he is probably an avowed 3%er

    I saw that. Time will tell if it has any significance or not...
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. - Ellen Parr"

    'If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?' - Steve Jobs

    I would rather live my life as if there is a god and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is. Albert Camus

    "When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

  6. #71

    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Blueguitar View Post
    I disagree that a constitutional amendment is necessary to deal with the issue. It might be to go as far as Australia went, but most of the proposals being made by gun control proponents don't go nearly that far. The Supreme Court's decision in Heller v. DC, which is the leading case on the matter, made it clear that the government has a lot of latitude to regulate firearms, including licensing requirements, outlawing certain categories of weapons, etc., it just can't ban them outright. The federal government and most states are not even close to what Heller suggested the limits might be on their ability to regulate.
    Good point. My point wrt the 2A is that those holding up AUS as some sort of goal don't seem to understand that you can't get here from here.

    Second, since you say you want to see this issue addressed but it would require a constitutional amendment, I'm just curious if you are saying you would be in favor of a constitutional amendment?
    Potentially, it really depends on the details.

    To be honest, with the 'leadership' we have in DC now, I'd likely be opposed to it, as I have zero faith that they could do something actually beneficial to We The People.
    Oderint dum metuant - Lucius Accius

  7. #72
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Tidewater's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Blueguitar View Post
    Second, since you say you want to see this issue addressed but it would require a constitutional amendment, I'm just curious if you are saying you would be in favor of a constitutional amendment?
    How about this:

    "Each state shall have the plenary power to regulate the possession or ownership of firearms as the state authorities see fit, restricted only by the constitution of that state. The Federal government shall have no power to restrict the states' power to regulate or restrict ownership or possession of firearms, and the Federal judiciary shall have no jurisdiction over the subject."

  8. #73
    BamaNation All-American bama_wayne1's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Blueguitar View Post
    I disagree that a constitutional amendment is necessary to deal with the issue. It might be to go as far as Australia went, but most of the proposals being made by gun control proponents don't go nearly that far. The Supreme Court's decision in Heller v. DC, which is the leading case on the matter, made it clear that the government has a lot of latitude to regulate firearms, including licensing requirements, outlawing certain categories of weapons, etc., it just can't ban them outright. The federal government and most states are not even close to what Heller suggested the limits might be on their ability to regulate.

    Second, since you say you want to see this issue addressed but it would require a constitutional amendment, I'm just curious if you are saying you would be in favor of a constitutional amendment?
    The volume of sales the AR platform has enjoyed would make it difficult agree with your interpretation as the ruling was that DC could not ban a class of weapons that were commonly used for self defense. I would bet the majority would insert that was their reason for purchase. I don't own or want to own one but nothing has sold them better than the left's insistence that they be banned.

  9. #74
    BamaNation Hall of Fame selmaborntidefan's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CharminTide View Post
    Well that's just not true. I'll stick with Australia because they're the closest analog to the US. Whether you agree with gun control or not, the rate of gun violence dropped after the buyback. Statistics would tell you that at least one shooting was prevented.




    Cool strawman, but no one has suggested outlawing guns.
    Remind me AGAIN how many countries BORDER Australia where these laws can be circumvented?

    That's the second time I've basically asked that question.

    And you have NO EVIDENCE it prevented EVEN one. You're assuming that.
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  10. #75
    BamaNation All-American bama_wayne1's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    now that it's coming out that he was hooked up with white nationalists, he is probably an avowed 3%er

    Isn't Cruz a Spanish name?

  11. #76
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CharminTide's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonaudio View Post
    Good point. My point wrt the 2A is that those holding up AUS as some sort of goal don't seem to understand that you can't get here from here.
    See, I'm not convinced of this. Australia didn't, for instance, ban semiautomatic weapons. They're still legal, they just require a more difficult license to obtain, and we already license firearms here. Now granted, any such law would be immediately challenged and stayed until SCOTUS ruled on it, but I don't think it's obviously any less constitutional than a federal ban on fully automatic rifles.

    Perhaps the more tricky issue, as TW alludes to, is federal vs. state gun licensing.

  12. #77
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bama_wayne1 View Post
    Isn't Cruz a Spanish name?
    he was adopted
    Last edited by 92tide; February 15th, 2018 at 01:05 PM.
    The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

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  13. #78
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Here is an idea. Specifically targeted for school shootings.

    Make a law that puts some responsibility on the purchaser/owner of the firearm for the actions that a minor takes with that firearm. If the kid steals it, I don't know. Burglary is already against the law, but say a kid steals from his uncle. I am not really sure that the uncle should bear responsibility for the actions of a child he had no input on bringing into this world. It is difficult to determine where to draw the line.

    If you choose not to keep your guns locked up, then you bear some responsibility. I don't know exactly what such a law would look like, and don't really know how you would quantify in the eyes of the law what would be constituted as a reasonable attempt to keep weapons safeguarded. But people are asking for what kind of law might work, and there is my stab at it. Poke holes in it or make it better, have at it.

    I have no idea for a law on what to do for someone who can legally purchase firearms after going through the background check. Murder is already a fairly big no no but that still doesn't stop some people.

    Two anecdotes:
    Sandy Hook shooter's mom bought him the gun he used to carry out his shooting. Could her knowing that if he did anything with that firearm, that she would share responsibility, have changed whether she bought it for him?

    Someone my wife works with had a son going through mental problems. Instead of ignoring the responsibility, he made the decision to get his firearms out of his house. We bought a couple, but the father recognized that it was a potential problem which is admirable.
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