The Perpetual Gun Control Thread - Page 8
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  1. #92
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bazza's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonaudio View Post
    -snip-FAR more people are killed annually in daily gun violence than in mass shootings. That doesn't mean that mass shootings aren't something we attempt to address, but the reality is that gun violence is much bigger than the headline grabbing mass shootings.
    Goes to what I have said on here on several occasions about the media not helping as much as they could. Priority # 1 for them is ratings. Meanwhile....our cultural issues keep growing.....and growing......

  2. #93

    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonNagus View Post
    There has already been 18 school shootings in 2018.
    Sorry, forgot to address this earlier.

    No, there have not been 18 school shootings so far in 2018

    This highlights how far the media outlets are willing to go to stir up emotional responses.
    Oderint dum metuant - Lucius Accius

  3. #94
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    and that is my point. guns and accessories are now being marketed as allowing you to be just like the special ops patrols. you too can be a tactical warrior bad arse. we see a similar mindset in the militarization of our police as well.
    The "militarization" of police is a reaction to people having more firepower than them.

  4. #95
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CharminTide's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonaudio View Post
    Ahh, but the Heller decision specifically notes that the right to bear arms is an individual one, that self defense is a viable reason to own and possess them.
    But Heller affirmed that the Miller decision extends second amendment protection only to certain kinds of weapons. IMO there's plenty of wiggle room. From Heller:

    "Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the amendment or state analogues. The court's opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on long-standing prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. The holding in United States v. Miller that the sorts of weapons protected are those "in common use at the time" finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons."

  5. #96
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Displaced Bama Fan's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Too much emotion for now. I'm going to exit and let this settle down and hopefully clearer heads will prevail.

  6. #97

    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CharminTide View Post
    But Heller affirmed that the Miller decision extends second amendment protection only to certain kinds of weapons. IMO there's plenty of wiggle room. From Heller:
    Indeed, there is wiggle room, but my point stands - it will be very difficult (I dare say impossible) to curtail firearms like AUS did.
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  7. #98
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bazza View Post
    Should we implement the same level of security and protection for our public schools as we do our courthouses?
    This has occurred to me. Offhand, it seems to me that the expense would be prohibitive. It's also good to note that Lanza literally shot his way into the school...
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  8. #99
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bazza's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    This has occurred to me. Offhand, it seems to me that the expense would be prohibitive. It's also good to note that Lanza literally shot his way into the school...
    Could Lanza have shot his way into a courthouse though?

    Around here there are deputies with side arms at the entrance.

  9. #100

    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonaudio View Post
    Sorry, forgot to address this earlier.

    No, there have not been 18 school shootings so far in 2018

    This highlights how far the media outlets are willing to go to stir up emotional responses.
    I guess I'll just throw this out here - fundamentally speaking, the discussion is essentially this - everyone I have ever spoken about this, from avid shooters to those who wish to ban firearms entirely, would like to see gun violence drastically reduced and is both angered and saddened by these mass shootings. That said, what gun restriction proponents are asking is essentially that may of us willingly curtail our own rights for the betterment of the whole. I own 'high capacity' magazines and AR pattern rifles. I also own pistols that carry more than 10 rounds (the typical cutoff when people discuss 'high capacity magazines'). Yet I've only ever enjoyed these in peace, target shooting, firearm safety drills, etc. I own these for my enjoyment and the protection of myself and my family - and I'm no different that about 99% of all legal firearm owners in that regard.

    Why we keep circling back to is this - discussing compromises of our rights without ensuring that we've solved any underlying problems is generally not going to fly with gun owners. While there are some gun owners who are unwilling to discuss any potential compromise, you'd likely be surprised at how many are open to at least discussing it intelligently - but it has to start with digging deep and researching where the problem comes from.

    We didn't just wake up in the mid-90s and suddenly have more guns around - this country has been stocked to the gills with firearms since it began. Something has changed - be it something in out society, something in our medicines or food, I have no idea. But something is fundamentally different now than it was 30 years ago. Unless / until we divine and figure that out, you're going find a lot of gun owners unwilling to compromise, as we know these things WILL continue.
    Oderint dum metuant - Lucius Accius

  10. #101
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CharminTide's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Interesting piece from the NYT:

    We asked dozens of researchers in criminology, law and public health to assess a range of policies often proposed to prevent gun deaths. We also conducted a national poll to measure public support for the same set of measures.

    The policies in the upper right corner of our matrix are those that were deemed effective and popular. The most effective one, according to our experts, would be restricting gun sales to anyone found guilty of a violent crime. Under federal law, such limitations apply to those convicted of felonies or domestic violence crimes. That idea has not been debated much among federal policy makers.

    Expanding background checks for gun purchasers to a wider range of gun sales was also judged effective and popular. It is an idea that was considered by Congress in 2013, but failed to win enough votes to become law. Some popular measures, like strengthening sentences for illegal gun possession, were deemed less effective. And some measures that experts thought could reduce deaths, such as banning all semiautomatic weapons, were less popular, though a majority of people in our survey still approved.
    LINK

  11. #102

    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    This has occurred to me. Offhand, it seems to me that the expense would be prohibitive. It's also good to note that Lanza literally shot his way into the school...
    But seriously - why do they always pick schools? It's because they know they won't face armed resistance.

    When was the last time someone shot up a courthouse, police station, gun shop, heck anywhere that the inhabitants were likely to be armed?
    Oderint dum metuant - Lucius Accius

  12. #103
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Tidewater's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by chanson78 View Post
    Here is an idea. Specifically targeted for school shootings.

    Make a law that puts some responsibility on the purchaser/owner of the firearm for the actions that a minor takes with that firearm. ... If you choose not to keep your guns locked up, then you bear some responsibility.
    A Canadian colleague of mine (A Newfie who hunts moose every year and other critters year round) says that is the provincial law in Newfoundland. You can own, but you must secure when the gun is in the home when not in use/cleaning. And cops will check whether you have a safe.

    Of course, I don't think it would have mattered in this case. The murderer was legally an adult and he did not shoot anybody in his house (that I know of).

  13. #104
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    Re: The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Displaced Bama Fan View Post
    Too much emotion for now. I'm going to exit and let this settle down and hopefully clearer heads will prevail.
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