Mueller Charges 13 Russian Nationals, 3 Russian Entities with Election Interference

[NationalTitles17]

"Red blooded American"? I can't believe how silly this board has become. But like I said... Red Scare on the way.

There should not be any people who ever thought the Russians were not trying to affect our elections. We all knew this, for like, our whole lifetimes!! You guys are acting like this is some sort of revelation. Every power in the world acts to influence our elections. And we, who are the most powerful, act to influence theirs. If you don't want to be influenced by a foreign power, I strongly suggest the use of reason. It is a great antiseptic to foreign influence.

"Red blooded American" was an intentional rhetorical device meant to convey a vigorous and proud spirit, but please by all means accuse me of creating a red scare. Maybe "red" is code for commie and it's really a call to my comrades.

I don't disagree with you in regards to fake news accounts, facebook/twitter posts, and the like. People have to be smart.

It's also well known that Russians have tried to have influence for decades. This is certainly not anything new in that respect.

But did we not try to mitigate their attempts then? Should we not try now? What is your point then?

[LA4Bama]

Obama very likely screwed the pooch on this, but you don't seem to be able/willing to see beyond that. What would it take for you to be concerned about Russian involvement and more so the assistance they received from Americans - some possibly working with one or more campaigns for president? Not trying to be confrontational, but I'd really like to know the answer.

Okay, since you are trying to be non-confrontational, I will reply in kind. First, however, I have to clear the air. When you write "you don't seem to be able/willing to see beyond that", I have to say, that is simply unjustified. I have not said anything that limits me to some partisan viewpoint and I don't think at all that it should be imputed to me. My position is not at all based on what Obama did or did not do.

Now, as for being concerned. I have already said that I am glad the indictment came down and I have no doubt it was warranted. But, the idea that we are in some sort of crisis is just silly. The Russians have been using every form of media since before I was born to influence our elections. There is nothing new here except the form of media. When it comes to the idea that Americans were conspiring with Russians, I have not seen any evidence yet. If there is evidence forthcoming I will adjust my opinion accordingly, but right now there is none and so it is a massive nothing burger from the point of view that has dominated the media for a year, which is the notion that we have a collusion.

Beyond that, the issue is about methods and about reason, and it is a fundamental and philosophical issue. If people are so stupid that they are influenced by hashtags and fake news posts, why do we let them rule us with their votes? If they are, on the whole, not so stupid and not so influenced, then why are we concerned with hashtags and fake facebook post?

[NationalTitles17]

Okay, since you are trying to be non-confrontational, I will reply in kind. First, however, I have to clear the air. When you write "you don't seem to be able/willing to see beyond that", I have to say, that is simply unjustified. I have not said anything that limits me to some partisan viewpoint and I don't think at all that it should be imputed to me. My position is not at all based on what Obama did or did not do.

Now, as for being concerned. I have already said that I am glad the indictment came down and I have no doubt it was warranted. But, the idea that we are in some sort of crisis is just silly. The Russians have been using every form of media since before I was born to influence our elections. There is nothing new here except the form of media. When it comes to the idea that Americans were conspiring with Russians, I have not seen any evidence yet. If there is evidence forthcoming I will adjust my opinion accordingly, but right now there is none and so it is a massive nothing burger from the point of view that has dominated the media for a year, which is the notion that we have a collusion.

Beyond that, the issue is about methods and about reason, and it is a fundamental and philosophical issue. If people are so stupid that they are influenced by hashtags and fake news posts, why do we let them rule us with their votes? If they are, on the whole, not so stupid and not so influenced, then why are we concerned with hashtags and fake facebook post?

Thank you for answering the question.

I must say however that you should remove the log from your own eye before removing the splinter from mine. Or do you think the Red Scare comment was justified in being directed toward me? Did you gather from my few comments here that I was running around screaming inconsolably about a Russian invasion? If you think you were justified don't bother to reply to this portion.

I'll wait for the facts before I form an opinion on whether collusion occurred. IMHO, that would be prudent for anyone to do.

[LA4Bama]

Thank you for answering the question.

I must say however that you should remove the log from your own eye before removing the splinter from mine. Or do you think the Red Scare comment was justified in being directed toward me? Did you gather from my few comments here that I was running around screaming inconsolably about a Russian invasion? If you think you were justified don't bother to reply to this portion.

I'll wait for the facts before I form an opinion on whether collusion occurred. IMHO, that would be prudent for anyone to do.

I made the red scare comment earlier in the thread. You are taking something personally that was not directed at you as an individual poster. The issue is real however... we are facing a new, heightened situation in which eveything is seen as a crisis. It is a path to totalitarianism. Everyone should make a personal decision to avoid it.

[NationalTitles17]

I made the red scare comment earlier in the thread. You are taking something personally that was not directed at you as an individual poster. The issue is real however... we are facing a new, heightened situation in which eveything is seen as a crisis. It is a path to totalitarianism. Everyone should make a personal decision to avoid it.

Originally Posted by NationalTitles17
I really don't see how any red blooded American can't be somewhat upset with what the Russians did or be concerned that American actors assisted them in interfering with our election process or that there have proven to be numerous connections between the Russians and one or more campaigns. For me it's not about the politics of one party or even a political ideology. It's about our right to self govern that was interfered with by outsiders with insider assistance. That is not a "nothing burger" or a "hoax". That is an insult and an injury. But it is the apathy of many that is more indicative of impending doom.



"Red blooded American"? I can't believe how silly this board has become. But like I said... Red Scare on the way.

There should not be any people who ever thought the Russians were not trying to affect our elections. We all knew this, for like, our whole lifetimes!! You guys are acting like this is some sort of revelation. Every power in the world acts to influence our elections. And we, who are the most powerful, act to influence theirs. If you don't want to be influenced by a foreign power, I strongly suggest the use of reason. It is a great antiseptic to foreign influence.

ummm.....yeah, not directed toward me...

Again, don't disagree with you on the over-hyping of this and every other thing that happens.

[LA4Bama]

ummm.....yeah, not directed toward me...

Yes, literally, not directed at you! Not directed at you "as an individual poster". Even in your quotation... "But like I said..." implying it is an ongoing matter. Geez. Sensitive much?

[Bamaro]

Mueller is just getting started. Cant wait to see where all of this is heading.

[NationalTitles17]

Yes, literally, not directed at you! Not directed at you "as an individual poster". Even in your quotation... "But like I said..." implying it is an ongoing matter. Geez. Sensitive much?

lol. Not at all.

[LA4Bama]

lol. Not at all.

Good. Then we may consider this an exception to your normal and move on.

[NationalTitles17]

Good. Then we may consider this an exception to your normal and move on.

Do you think you might have taken that a bit too far?

[chanson78]

I’m not sure that in today’s day and age of social media tribalism, that you can just expect people to be able to suss out what is fact or fiction. The very nature of propaganda is to delegitimize one side of an issue while heavily favoring the other. This has been happening for awhile, but lately has had a very prominent advocate who even now won’t unequivocally say that election meddling did occur.

Beyond that, the issue is about methods and about reason, and it is a fundamental and philosophical issue. If people are so stupid that they are influenced by hashtags and fake news posts, why do we let them rule us with their votes? If they are, on the whole, not so stupid and not so influenced, then why are we concerned with hashtags and fake facebook post?

I imagine this last bit is tongue in cheek, and likely hyperbolic of your position. However, would it be fair to say, that a joke considering an intelligence litmus test for voting rights is something that challenges the American principle of self government?

While technically the 14th amendment does give some leeway on how guaranteed a persons right to vote really is, I think it would be fair to say that introducing some measure of an intelligence test would definitely fall outside the bounds.

You may think that a joke doesn’t have power, and I’m making too much of your offhand comment, but one only has to look at the White House to see just how much power a joke can truly hold.

[TIDE-HSV]

This has turned altogether too personal and heated and needs to be backed off. This is not a post to be replied to - period...

[bama_wayne1]

i'm guessing he's as wrapped up in this as anyone. if the dems flip the house in 2018, it could be president pelosi

Maybe then she could remember who the president is, but no guarantees....