Alabama QB competition article

B1GTide

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Apr 13, 2012
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Taking nothing away from Jalen, but is he really that much better than Tua with his legs?
Better? Probably not. But it is a good thing that Tua is a more capable passer because he is not nearly as big/strong and if he had to carry the ball as often as Jalen has I would worry for his health.

The bottom line - he is enough of a threat to run that the defense has to account for it. But he is not going to run unless it is the right time to run.
 

Ole Man Dan

Hall of Fame
Apr 21, 2008
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Quarterback competition will be epic.
Every nuance of both will be noted.
Every strength will be magnificated.
Every weakness will be mentioned, like it's the end of the world...

SPRING PRACTICE CAN'T GET HERE SOON ENOUGH FOR ME...
* I re-watch the 'Tua is my Cousin' video almost everyday...
 

Crimson White

1st Team
Jun 17, 2014
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Better? Probably not. But it is a good thing that Tua is a more capable passer because he is not nearly as big/strong and if he had to carry the ball as often as Jalen has I would worry for his health.

The bottom line - he is enough of a threat to run that the defense has to account for it. But he is not going to run unless it is the right time to run.
So basically, we'll have a more balanced offense. That will be a good change.
 

Bamabuzzard

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Better? Probably not. But it is a good thing that Tua is a more capable passer because he is not nearly as big/strong and if he had to carry the ball as often as Jalen has I would worry for his health.

The bottom line - he is enough of a threat to run that the defense has to account for it. But he is not going to run unless it is the right time to run.
That's the thing. With Tua's skills the QB will not have to run that much. Jalen had to run a lot because of his deficiencies as a passer. Tua's skills should really limit the amount of qb runs we have to do.
 

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
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We've seen Jalen run so much during the last two years that it's almost hard to imagine what we'd look like with limited QB runs.

But with a talent like Tua's, I really believe our offense will contain very few QB runs. And yet, because he's got the ability, we'll probably see a couple a game that catches the defense off guard and he'll get 10 yards without getting touched (and hopefully sliding to get down).

But, it would just make little sense to run him much when his money maker is his arm. If we want to run, just hand it off to our 4-deep backfield! Simple.

FWIW, last night I watched the first 3 quarters of the NC game again. I can't overstate how terrible our offense looked with Jalen against an elite defense AND how much it changed when Tua entered the game in the 3rd quarter. I'm sure everyone remembers the end, but Tua's impact was instantly felt but it took the majority of the 3rd quarter for him to start feeling comfortable. But even as he missed some key throws, Georgia's defense had to adjust to his downfield threat and it set up some big running plays in the second half and then, of course, we know Tua carved them up in the 4th and in OT.

I honestly hope we never got back to what was before Tua!
 

UAH

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Nov 27, 2017
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We've seen Jalen run so much during the last two years that it's almost hard to imagine what we'd look like with limited QB runs.

But with a talent like Tua's, I really believe our offense will contain very few QB runs. And yet, because he's got the ability, we'll probably see a couple a game that catches the defense off guard and he'll get 10 yards without getting touched (and hopefully sliding to get down).

But, it would just make little sense to run him much when his money maker is his arm. If we want to run, just hand it off to our 4-deep backfield! Simple.

FWIW, last night I watched the first 3 quarters of the NC game again. I can't overstate how terrible our offense looked with Jalen against an elite defense AND how much it changed when Tua entered the game in the 3rd quarter. I'm sure everyone remembers the end, but Tua's impact was instantly felt but it took the majority of the 3rd quarter for him to start feeling comfortable. But even as he missed some key throws, Georgia's defense had to adjust to his downfield threat and it set up some big running plays in the second half and then, of course, we know Tua carved them up in the 4th and in OT.

I honestly hope we never got back to what was before Tua!
To add a brief thought to your comments if we look at the outstanding defensive fronts we have faced, and will continue to see in the regular season and into the playoffs, there will be times where they can negate the power running game, regardless of RB talent. One only has to look at our success against Fournette over his career at LSU.

With the talent of the defensive fronts in the NFL it has become a throw first league. That it essentially what is required against the teams we face with NFL type talent.
 

Crimson White

1st Team
Jun 17, 2014
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FWIW, last night I watched the first 3 quarters of the NC game again. I can't overstate how terrible our offense looked with Jalen against an elite defense AND how much it changed when Tua entered the game in the 3rd quarter. I'm sure everyone remembers the end, but Tua's impact was instantly felt

I honestly hope we never got back to what was before Tua!
I said last year, even before the title game, that the offense, including the line, seemed to play better with Tagovailoa. That's probably just my imagination, and due more to the fact that the offense was just better with him in the game, but who knows. We do know that some of the receivers were frustrated and unhappy with things. Perhaps some of the linemen were too. It's understandable that the defense might play better when the offense can sustain drives.

There are just so many ways and reasons why the team is better with Tagovailoa that I really just don't understand why Saban is still undecided about who will be the starter. Maybe it's just coach speak and he's saying this to preclude Hurts from transferring, but it's a little disconcerting to hear.
 

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
Apr 1, 2004
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I said last year, even before the title game, that the offense, including the line, seemed to play better with Tagovailoa. That's probably just my imagination, and due more to the fact that the offense was just better with him in the game, but who knows. We do know that some of the receivers were frustrated and unhappy with things. Perhaps some of the linemen were too. It's understandable that the defense might play better when the offense can sustain drives.

There are just so many ways and reasons why the team is better with Tagovailoa that I really just don't understand why Saban is still undecided about who will be the starter. Maybe it's just coach speak and he's saying this to preclude Hurts from transferring, but it's a little disconcerting to hear.
Two things:

1. I think the team played better because Tua is obviously better and I think the team knew the offense would function better when he was under center.

2. I believe it is coach speak.
 

CaliforniaTide

All-American
Aug 9, 2006
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I said last year, even before the title game, that the offense, including the line, seemed to play better with Tagovailoa. That's probably just my imagination, and due more to the fact that the offense was just better with him in the game, but who knows. We do know that some of the receivers were frustrated and unhappy with things. Perhaps some of the linemen were too. It's understandable that the defense might play better when the offense can sustain drives.

There are just so many ways and reasons why the team is better with Tagovailoa that I really just don't understand why Saban is still undecided about who will be the starter. Maybe it's just coach speak and he's saying this to preclude Hurts from transferring, but it's a little disconcerting to hear.
CNS has no obligation to tell anyone outside of the team what his fall QB plans are. Based on his previous history in QB battles, he's going to let this play out until A) one of the QBs takes "life by the horns" and, more importantly, B) the team responds to that QB's leadership. How he chooses to play this in the public arena is just for show in the sense that he isn't necessarily going to tip his hand one way or the other, unless it is just so clear and obvious (see when JPW, McElroy, McCarron, and Hurts all returned for a second season as starting QB). Personally, I think it should be Tua, and I have a hard time seeing CNS and his coaches deciding a different way. Hurts need to show improvement in throwing the ball; Tua needs to show improvement in cutting down on TOs.
 

Wilson Monroe

1st Team
Jul 19, 2016
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I said last year, even before the title game, that the offense, including the line, seemed to play better with Tagovailoa. That's probably just my imagination, and due more to the fact that the offense was just better with him in the game, but who knows. We do know that some of the receivers were frustrated and unhappy with things. Perhaps some of the linemen were too. It's understandable that the defense might play better when the offense can sustain drives.

There are just so many ways and reasons why the team is better with Tagovailoa that I really just don't understand why Saban is still undecided about who will be the starter. Maybe it's just coach speak and he's saying this to preclude Hurts from transferring, but it's a little disconcerting to hear.
It is an unenviable position to be in to have to say that Jalen, a likeable, respected, and talented player will get benched. He has such an incredible record and has done everything asked of him. I am sure Saban will give him every opportunity he can to win the job and the team whether he really believes it is possible or not.

Additionally, Tua has to be pushed to learn to manage the game. Play clock awareness and negative plays will be the only thing that should make this a competition unless he steps back.
 

BamaInBham

All-American
Feb 14, 2007
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I said last year, even before the title game, that the offense, including the line, seemed to play better with Tagovailoa. That's probably just my imagination, and due more to the fact that the offense was just better with him in the game, but who knows. We do know that some of the receivers were frustrated and unhappy with things. Perhaps some of the linemen were too. It's understandable that the defense might play better when the offense can sustain drives.

There are just so many ways and reasons why the team is better with Tagovailoa that I really just don't understand why Saban is still undecided about who will be the starter. Maybe it's just coach speak and he's saying this to preclude Hurts from transferring, but it's a little disconcerting to hear.
It's only right for CNS to give Jalen a fair shot at the starter's role, in fact, he is probably still the "official" starter. You can't just demote a player who led you to 2 NC games and is 26-2, just because of one half of football no matter how glorious that half. It would be disrespectful and ungrateful to Jalen, who won't be outworked. I say this as one who believes that Jalen has no chance to be the starter. He is far behind Tua in all passing qualities and IMO, is only marginally better as a runner. In fact, I prefer Tua even as a runner, even though he is slower and not quite as powerful, he is quicker, more elusive and makes better decisions on the RPO. As I've stated a couple of times before, the players, coaching staff, Bama fans and college football as a whole, will be outraged if Tua is not the starter. But proper protocol should and will be followed - Jalen deserves it. Saban has been and is quite aware of what is going on.
 

TiderJack

Hall of Fame
Jul 9, 2010
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Inverness, AL
It's only right for CNS to give Jalen a fair shot at the starter's role, in fact, he is probably still the "official" starter. You can't just demote a player who led you to 2 NC games and is 26-2, just because of one half of football no matter how glorious that half. It would be disrespectful and ungrateful to Jalen, who won't be outworked. I say this as one who believes that Jalen has no chance to be the starter. He is far behind Tua in all passing qualities and IMO, is only marginally better as a runner. In fact, I prefer Tua even as a runner, even though he is slower and not quite as powerful, he is quicker, more elusive and makes better decisions on the RPO. As I've stated a couple of times before, the players, coaching staff, Bama fans and college football as a whole, will be outraged if Tua is not the starter. But proper protocol should and will be followed - Jalen deserves it. Saban has been and is quite aware of what is going on.
I agree with you. I believe Jalen will be the first QB in line during the media viewing period when spring practice opens and that is fair. I, like you, believe Tua will be the starter against Louisville.
 

Crimson White

1st Team
Jun 17, 2014
475
1
37
I still believe it is Hurts's starting job to win or lose
Why? In what way is Hurts better than Tagovailoa? Check that. In what way is he as good as Tua?

He isn't as consistent throwing the ball, especially hitting a receiver in stride.
He can't read the defense as well, before or after the snap.
He can't check down to secondary receivers as well.
He doesn't have as good pocket presence. With a little pressure, he'll take off and pretty often just throw away the ball.
He doesn't look off the dbs. Stares down the receiver, which is generally only one. Saban admitted they cut the field in half for Hurts to survey.

How is he better than Tagovailoa?
 
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Ledsteplin

Hall of Fame
Nov 20, 2013
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From a recent interview with Greg McElroy. Saban said:
“Almost everybody’s role changes,” he said. “Guys who weren’t leaders will have to lead. Guys who were backups and played special teams will have to start.”
As to quarterbacks Jalen and Tua?
“We respect both players, and if they can both contribute then we’ll use them that way.”
Saban said that Alabama wouldn’t have been in back-to-back title games without Hurts and wouldn’t have won the 2017 Championship without Tagovailoa.
 

teamplayer

Hall of Fame
Jul 31, 2001
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From a recent interview with Greg McElroy. Saban said:
“Almost everybody’s role changes,” he said. “Guys who weren’t leaders will have to lead. Guys who were backups and played special teams will have to start.”
As to quarterbacks Jalen and Tua?
“We respect both players, and if they can both contribute then we’ll use them that way.”
Saban said that Alabama wouldn’t have been in back-to-back title games without Hurts and wouldn’t have won the 2017 Championship without Tagovailoa.
Both of these are true statements.
 

rgw

Suspended
Sep 15, 2003
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The weird thing is that Hurts was a lot more efficient in 2017 than 2016 but he had a lot less impact in big games because teams forced him to win with his arm MUCH better in 2017. I think some of it is that the pass game was not very well conceived for Hurts. Around mid-season during that bye where the staff usually QA the offense and defense, the pass game ought to have taken more note of what Hurts executed well in 2016 then integrated it into the 2017 offense. I felt like all season Daboll was asking Hurts to do multi-read passing calls when he made a lot of hay in 2016 with quick one-read throws. Sure, it is a sign of his weakness as a pure passer but the goal is to put your guys in a position to win. Kiffin with Hurts (through the regular season before he got caught up in finding a new job) was a much MUCH better at just making Hurts work than Daboll. Daboll wanted to make a square peg fit in a round hole.
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
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The weird thing is that Hurts was a lot more efficient in 2017 than 2016 but he had a lot less impact in big games because teams forced him to win with his arm MUCH better in 2017. I think some of it is that the pass game was not very well conceived for Hurts. Around mid-season during that bye where the staff usually QA the offense and defense, the pass game ought to have taken more note of what Hurts executed well in 2016 then integrated it into the 2017 offense. I felt like all season Daboll was asking Hurts to do multi-read passing calls when he made a lot of hay in 2016 with quick one-read throws. Sure, it is a sign of his weakness as a pure passer but the goal is to put your guys in a position to win. Kiffin with Hurts (through the regular season before he got caught up in finding a new job) was a much MUCH better at just making Hurts work than Daboll. Daboll wanted to make a square peg fit in a round hole.
In his two years on campus, Jalen has faced 14 teams with a top 50 passing efficiency defense.

In those games, he averages 12-21, 139 yards, 1.1 TD, .5 INT, and a 122.2 QB Rating.

In the 15 games against weaker pass defenses, he averages 15.1-22.6, 194.3 yards, 1.7 TD, .2 INT, and a 177.5 QB Rating. If we take out the two FCS games (Mercer and UT-Chattanooga, his stats go to 16.7-23.9, 199.9 yards, 1.5 TD, .2 INT, and a 156.3 QB Rating.


His stats are somewhat inflated from those weaker defenses.
 

Crimson White

1st Team
Jun 17, 2014
475
1
37
I felt like all season Daboll was asking Hurts to do multi-read passing calls when he made a lot of hay in 2016 with quick one-read throws. Sure, it is a sign of his weakness as a pure passer but the goal is to put your guys in a position to win. Kiffin with Hurts (through the regular season before he got caught up in finding a new job) was a much MUCH better at just making Hurts work than Daboll. Daboll wanted to make a square peg fit in a round hole.
Actually, and as previously noted, the coaches cut the field in half because Hurts couldn't read the entire field. So our offense got really easy to defend for good defenses. Kiffin, in 2016, worked around Hurts lack of a downfield passing game. Most of the passing yards were from completions within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage and most of those were at or behind the line of scrimmage, like the jet sweeps, which is basically a long handoff.

About Hurts..."They've changed some of the ways routes are run so he doesn't always have to read both sides of the field." http://www.al.com/alabamafootball/index.ssf/2017/11/live_updates_from_nick_saban_r_5.html
 

RedWave

All-SEC
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Two things:

1. I think the team played better because Tua is obviously better and I think the team knew the offense would function better when he was under center.

2. I believe it is coach speak.
Add in the fact that Tua passes on pass plays rather than giving up and running after one read. Has to be hard to effectively block when you aren't sure how long your QB is going to stick to the called play before he starts improvising. Jalen simply gives us up on pass plays too early. Now all the guys who are pass blocking or running patterns have to realize that switch happen and move to run blocking. The more I think of it, the less I blame our WR's for being frustrated.
 

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