Alabama QB competition article

KrAzY3

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Teams were already crowding the LOS when he was back there at QB because they knew he couldn't throw down the field with any consistency. If Jalen lines up in wildcat, everybody, including the defense, knows whats coming. Kind of defeats the purpose IMO.
The whole point of the wildcat is that 90% of the time you run the ball. The advantage being you get it directly to the runner, which cuts down on the time it takes the play to develop. I remember Alabama putting a game away with Ingram in the wildcat, and he ran every single play.

The issue has always been Hurt's inability to make complex reads. He's not unable to throw the ball downfield, that's never been the issue. It's just the complexities of the plays that he seems to get lost in. By the time he finds the open man things could already be off the rails. Wildcat or trick plays, there really is no complexity to the read. If the guy is wide open you throw it, if he's not you run it. In that case, Jalen, the guy who had a 60% completion rate, and only 1 INT would be the better passing option by a mile compared to anyone Alabama has had running those sort of plays under Saban.

I'm not advocating for that mind you, but I am saying if that's what Saban has in mind, clearly Hurts is capable of doing it. It's more an issue of can they perhaps develop him more as a halfback or receiver, so he be a more legitimate thread in other areas.
 

4Q Basket Case

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As a practical matter, it seems to me that Jalen, in effect, runs the wildcat pretty much all the time anyway. That’s been the frustration of WRs, RBs, fans, and coaches.

There’s a reason it’s designed to be a change-of-pace package, not the base offense, and we’ve gotten PhD-level schooling in that since LSU 2016.
 

deliveryman35

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I think Jalen could play a position similar to the one played by Phillip Lutzenkirken or Chandler Cox at Auburn.

I don’t think you play Jalen at all except for our 4 most difficult regular season games as an added dimension for those teams to prepare for. This will allow Jalen to maintain his RS and still transfer out on a high note with the program.

If take this approach then Mac is your No2 QB and then in these 4 games you could actually have Tua and Jalen on the field at the same time if you so desired.


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An ingenious idea if he decides to stay. Save him for Amen Corner( except mop up duty in other games) and it really complicates prep for LSU, State, and the barn.
 

JustNeedMe81

Hall of Fame
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I don't trust him to throw it well enough on the run. The conundrum is he doesn't throw it as well as Tua or run as well as Najee or Damien. So what's the use other than 1 trick play a game or every other game or something. He's basically best used as a decoy. It's a wrinkle, but probably not one we'd even need. I hate to say that but I just don't see enough upside to take the time to install it.
Actually, when he rolls to his right, He throws well. He struggles with rollout to the left. So, I'm okay with the toss sweep play as long it's on his right side.

Actually, that statement isn't necessary accurate. I think it's great to have wrinkles in game plan and to use Jalen as decoy isn't ideal for anyone at this point. It's not even a benefit to Hurt. It has to be a play where it benefits everyone involved. They will install package for Tua and Hurts...
 

JustNeedMe81

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Maybe this is just me but I don't think a wildcat package with Jalen would be all that successful. Teams were already crowding the LOS when he was back there at QB because they knew he couldn't throw down the field with any consistency. If Jalen lines up in wildcat, everybody, including the defense, knows whats coming. Kind of defeats the purpose IMO. As far as Jalen playing another position - I'm sure he could but I'm just not sure what position he can get playing time in at Bama. I mean he could transfer to a lot of places and maybe play RB or S but I just don't see it at Bama with the talent we have everywhere..
That's the whole point. Make them think that's it's a run play, when it could be a quick pass on slant, rollout, etc.
 

RollTide_HTTR

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I don't trust him to throw it well enough on the run. The conundrum is he doesn't throw it as well as Tua or run as well as Najee or Damien. So what's the use other than 1 trick play a game or every other game or something. He's basically best used as a decoy. It's a wrinkle, but probably not one we'd even need. I hate to say that but I just don't see enough upside to take the time to install it.
Agreed. We have a potential star at QB in Tua and I think it makes more sense to spend that time in developing him into the best QB he can be.
 

Crimson White

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Jun 17, 2014
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I don't trust him to throw it well enough on the run. The conundrum is he doesn't throw it as well as Tua or run as well as Najee or Damien. So what's the use other than 1 trick play a game or every other game or something. He's basically best used as a decoy. It's a wrinkle, but probably not one we'd even need. I hate to say that but I just don't see enough upside to take the time to install it.
I pretty much agree with you, but run him enough at wildcat once in a while during the year, and as he likes to do, let him run the ball. Then, one night when the team is up against it -- and the breaks are beating the boys -- tell him to go out there and run that play, and when the defensive players are all converging, you throw it over their heads to the receiver that is open and clear, and win one for the Skipper (that's my new nickname)
 

BamaMoon

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Lot's of possibilities, but the main thing for Jalen and staff to decide is will Jalen be open to playing another position.

If Jalen is still wanting to play QB, I don't think we see him play much at all this year.

If CNS thinks he can contribute at another position (that might involve him occasionally lining up in a wildcat QB role) then I think we'll see him play. I think this is the only way Jalen gets to the NFL and if CNS thinks Jalen is capable, IMO Jalen ought to be willing to try it.

I agree completely that we don't need Jalen taking 8-10 snaps a game away from Tua. But at H-back or slot he could be a great blocker or open field threat on designed passes.
 

RammerJammer15

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Sep 9, 2012
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Jalen was most effective in the Kiffin offense.

While Tua will most likely be the starter, I want Jalen as the backup, not as the H-Back, RB, or Receiver. At the same time though, if we didn't have four good RBs, I wouldn't mind a redzone package similar to what Tyrone Swoopes or Blake Bell did.
 

JustNeedMe81

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Lot's of possibilities, but the main thing for Jalen and staff to decide is will Jalen be open to playing another position.

If Jalen is still wanting to play QB, I don't think we see him play much at all this year.

If CNS thinks he can contribute at another position
(that might involve him occasionally lining up in a wildcat QB role) then I think we'll see him play. I think this is the only way Jalen gets to the NFL and if CNS thinks Jalen is capable, IMO Jalen ought to be willing to try it.

I agree completely that we don't need Jalen taking 8-10 snaps a game away from Tua. But at H-back or slot he could be a great blocker or open field threat on designed passes.
He's not changing the position. We might as well give up on that idea.
 

B1GTide

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I don't trust him to throw it well enough on the run. The conundrum is he doesn't throw it as well as Tua or run as well as Najee or Damien. So what's the use other than 1 trick play a game or every other game or something. He's basically best used as a decoy. It's a wrinkle, but probably not one we'd even need. I hate to say that but I just don't see enough upside to take the time to install it.
Actually, when rolling to his right side, Jalen is an excellent passer - excellent. He is a total waste when he rolls to his left - one of the worst passers in college.
 

Intl.Aperture

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I pretty much agree with you, but run him enough at wildcat once in a while during the year, and as he likes to do, let him run the ball. Then, one night when the team is up against it -- and the breaks are beating the boys -- tell him to go out there and run that play, and when the defensive players are all converging, you throw it over their heads to the receiver that is open and clear, and win one for the Skipper (that's my new nickname)
It sounds good in theory but it's one of those plays that draws up well on a board but not so much during an actual game.

The issue here is the same as it is when he's normally playing QB. If you have him roll out to the right or take the sweep toss, and then he only reads the right side of the field. So right off the bat there are fewer available receivers to throw to which makes it easier for the DBs to cover, and any team with a decent defense is going to clamp down on that play - just like they did when he was the starting QB. And the linebackers sweep to the right to defend the LOS like it's a run play.

That play will work against maybe Ole Miss and Miss State but it's not going to work against disciplined and athletic defenses like LSU, Auburn, Georgia, Texas A&M etc. So again, I jsut don't see the point.

Any play with Hurts where you isolate 1 half of the field is not usually a great idea. His best runs and plays tend to be when he has the whole field spread out in front of him.
 

Crimson White

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Jun 17, 2014
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I don't know about excellent, but seems about as often, when he rolls out of the pocket and to the right, we're going to get a pass to the sideline.
 

Crimson White

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It sounds good in theory but it's one of those plays that draws up well on a board but not so much during an actual game.
But it's helped beat us twice. Once in the Ole Miss game, the caption I posted above, and then a key play vs Auburn in 2013. But yeah, we don't seem to complete it.
 

Intl.Aperture

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Actually, when rolling to his right side, Jalen is an excellent passer - excellent. He is a total waste when he rolls to his left - one of the worst passers in college.
I don't know the stats on that. You may, but I don't remember that being the case. You and a few other members have said that but I think he was better than rolling left but still not all the great on his move to the right. Even still, that play is limiting. Then he only has 1 half of the field to throw to which means fewer receiving options and easier reads for the defense. I just don't see the point in running him out there to run a play that good teams have already defended well against him in the past. Just MHO.
 

B1GTide

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I don't know about excellent, but seems about as often, when he rolls out of the pocket and to the right, we're going to get a pass to the sideline.
The receivers have to be open, too. But when they are open and he rolls right and he decides to throw to a receiver, the ball is on the money. The bolded is the part that worries me most with Jalen. Even though he is an excellent passer from the middle over, he either doesn't see the play developing or he just doesn't trust himself enough to make the pass.
 

B1GTide

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I don't know the stats on that. You may, but I don't remember that being the case. You and a few other members have said that but I think he was better than rolling left but still not all the great on his move to the right. Even still, that play is limiting. Then he only has 1 half of the field to throw to which means fewer receiving options and easier reads for the defense. I just don't see the point in running him out there to run a play that good teams have already defended well against him in the past. Just MHO.
I have seen the stats and they are pretty impressive. But you are right - anything that Jalen can do, Tua can do better. Why? Because the defense has to play Tua straight up. They don't even pretend to play Jalen straight up any more.
 

CrimsonForce

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Sometimes it won't matter that the defense knows it's coming. In a bleed the clock scenario defenses expect a run anyway.

And USCe knew Mark Ingram was getting the snap in the Wildcat and they couldn't stop it even when they knew it was coming. Being saracastic cause I know Jalen's not Mark Ingram, but if Jalen is decisive and he knows the hole he's supposed to hit, he could be effective in that role.
The whole point of the wildcat is that 90% of the time you run the ball. The advantage being you get it directly to the runner, which cuts down on the time it takes the play to develop. I remember Alabama putting a game away with Ingram in the wildcat, and he ran every single play.
Right, so why wouldn't we have one of our main RBs or even Robinson or Jacobs in the wildcat? We have 4 RBs who are better at running the football in a wildcat situation than Jalen would be. I get the wrinkle of throwing a pass out of it but I guarantee you any of our RBs could throw a simple slant pass out of the formation similar to what K Johnson did to us in the Iron Bowl. I'm not trying to diminish Jalen's talents but there's really no situation where I'd rather have him running the ball on a designed run play than one of our RBs..
 

Intl.Aperture

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But it's helped beat us twice. Once in the Ole Miss game, the caption I posted above, and then a key play vs Auburn in 2013. But yeah, we don't seem to complete it.
Yah, both those QB's were very accurate downfield passers.

It feels like I'm beating up on Hurts. That's REALLY not my intention. I just don't think there's enough CLEAR benefit to using him in trick plays.

IMO it works best when it's a player like Ardarius Stewart. Someone who you really don't expect to be passing the ball. He came up huge TWICE in 2016 and he ran jet sweeps so often that defenses would truly clamp down at the LOS and go soft in the backfield. With Hurts, I just don't think decent teams will have the wool pulled over their eyes so easily. We'll run into the same issues we had when he was QB 1.
 

RammerJammer15

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Right, so why wouldn't we have one of our main RBs or even Robinson or Jacobs in the wildcat? We have 4 RBs who are better at running the football in a wildcat situation than Jalen would be. I get the wrinkle of throwing a pass out of it but I guarantee you any of our RBs could throw a simple slant pass out of the formation similar to what K Johnson did to us in the Iron Bowl. I'm not trying to diminish Jalen's talents but there's really no situation where I'd rather have him running the ball on a designed run play than one of our RBs..
That's what I'm saying. I don't see any other position that he can play other than QB. Partly because we're already loaded in other positions, if anyone is gonna be our swiss army knife on offense, it's Jacobs and he's proven to be that swiss army knife.
 

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