Alabama QB competition article

RollTide_HTTR

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Pretty good read. Asked for comments on QB battle from our dbs and has a quote from ga safety.
Showed the tact of all of the Alabama players asked for comment. Ronnie Harrison kind of summed up for me, without trying.
He said something like... With Tua you really have to pay attention to the routes...

http://www.al.com/alabamafootball/index.ssf/2018/03/view_of_alabama_qb_battle_from.html
Levi Wallace was especially diplomatic.

Add in the fact that Tua passes on pass plays rather than giving up and running after one read. Has to be hard to effectively block when you aren't sure how long your QB is going to stick to the called play before he starts improvising. Jalen simply gives us up on pass plays too early. Now all the guys who are pass blocking or running patterns have to realize that switch happen and move to run blocking. The more I think of it, the less I blame our WR's for being frustrated.
He also gets rid of the ball quicker which makes the OL look way better. Just look at Tom Brady. Dude has a consistently mediocre to bad line (pretty sure they started like 3 rookies a year or so ago) but Brady gets the ball out so quickly it doesn't matter as much.
 

BamaMoon

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Levi Wallace was especially diplomatic.
.
"You can't put it all on Jalen," Wallace said. "It's on the receivers to get open. It's on the O-line to block for him. Jalen is a talented quarterback. We know he can throw. The team knows.
Love Levi, but I'm not buying what he says. Team didn't buy it. TV commentators didn't buy it. Ultimately, CNS didn't buy it.

It was not on the receivers because I saw WAAAY too many guys who were wide open and Jalen didn't see him and took off running or he threw it at their feet for an impossible catch.
 

jbkwin

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Starting QB for 2018

:BigA:Just wondering what the feeling by most Bama fans, about who will be named starting QB for the 2018 season. I love both our quarterbacks, they just have different skill sets. I personally do not see Saban playing two QB's. Any info will be appreciated
 

RollTide_HTTR

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Re: Starting QB for 2018

Everyone outside of maybe 1 or 2 people here seem to agree it is more than likely Tua's job. PS. i think this thread will likely be moved to the QB competition thread which has a longggg talk about both QBs. I'm sure its a pain to go back and read it all but there are some good conversations there.
 

TiderJack

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Re: Starting QB for 2018

:BigA:Just wondering what the feeling by most Bama fans, about who will be named starting QB for the 2018 season. I love both our quarterbacks, they just have different skill sets. I personally do not see Saban playing two QB's. Any info will be appreciated
16 page thread named "Starting QB for 2018" with lots of comments and analysis. Reading is your friend.
 

RedWave

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Both of these are true statements.
Are we absolutely certain that Tua couldn't have brought us to the championship game this past year? We had only lost to Auburn in a game closer than the score looked, and likely would have had more success with a decent passing game, and possibly gotten into the playoff without all the controversy.
 

BamaInBham

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Are we absolutely certain that Tua couldn't have brought us to the championship game this past year? We had only lost to Auburn in a game closer than the score looked, and likely would have had more success with a decent passing game, and possibly gotten into the playoff without all the controversy.
IMO, it's certain that Tua could have brought Bama to championship game, but Jalen did it. In retrospect, IMO, it's very possible that Bama would have been undefeated. However, it's all just speculation. Tua did seem to improve a lot, understandably so, from the beginning to the end of the season. But since Jalen did it, he should be appreciated for it.

On a related note: Who can blame CNS for staying with Jalen coming into the year and even through the AU loss?

Finally, it would seem that Tua is a lock to become the starter by the first game. Tua's capabilities, both tangible and intangible, seem to pose an impossible obstacle for Jalen to overcome, but IMO, CNS should and will give Jalen every opportunity to win the job.
 

B1GTide

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Are we absolutely certain that Tua couldn't have brought us to the championship game this past year? We had only lost to Auburn in a game closer than the score looked, and likely would have had more success with a decent passing game, and possibly gotten into the playoff without all the controversy.
Certain - no. Tua was a true freshman and could have had a 5 turnover game. But I would say that it was likely.
 

TIDE-HSV

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IMO, it's certain that Tua could have brought Bama to championship game, but Jalen did it. In retrospect, IMO, it's very possible that Bama would have been undefeated. However, it's all just speculation. Tua did seem to improve a lot, understandably so, from the beginning to the end of the season. But since Jalen did it, he should be appreciated for it.

On a related note: Who can blame CNS for staying with Jalen coming into the year and even through the AU loss?

Finally, it would seem that Tua is a lock to become the starter by the first game. Tua's capabilities, both tangible and intangible, seem to pose an impossible obstacle for Jalen to overcome, but IMO, CNS should and will give Jalen every opportunity to win the job.
Not a matter of blame; he did pretty much what he had to do. I've said before that I feel that the rotation at QB would have been shaken up, had we lost the MSU game, since the offense had continued its trend towards impotence. We had been thoroughly diagnosed. Looking back, Saban showed his typical Midas touch... :)
 

gtgilbert

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The weird thing is that Hurts was a lot more efficient in 2017 than 2016 but he had a lot less impact in big games because teams forced him to win with his arm MUCH better in 2017. I think some of it is that the pass game was not very well conceived for Hurts. Around mid-season during that bye where the staff usually QA the offense and defense, the pass game ought to have taken more note of what Hurts executed well in 2016 then integrated it into the 2017 offense. I felt like all season Daboll was asking Hurts to do multi-read passing calls when he made a lot of hay in 2016 with quick one-read throws. Sure, it is a sign of his weakness as a pure passer but the goal is to put your guys in a position to win. Kiffin with Hurts (through the regular season before he got caught up in finding a new job) was a much MUCH better at just making Hurts work than Daboll. Daboll wanted to make a square peg fit in a round hole.
I've said this before, but the way efficient is measured inflates Jalen's numbers. His completion rate will look high because if the first read is not WIDE open, he runs. most often his runs against good defenses went for short gains, and he'd occasionally break a long one. That non-throw has no bearing on his efficiency, even though maybe his second read was open and it was really a bad play. A better QB, would stay in the pocket, go through progressions, and throw to a receiver. Even a good QB only hits so many passes, so every attempt is another chance to lower his efficiency.

I don't think it had anything to do with Daboll either. toward the end of 16 jalen was starting to slump. He'd been diagnosed and teams knew exactly what to do to bait him into running instead of throwing. It was obvious in the last several games of 16. In 17 with the soft schedule up front, it looked better and some of the reads changed, but once defenses figured out the 'one read' they were then able to start baiting Jalen into taking off and running again.
 

rgw

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I still don't think we're playing for a national title without him starting the first 13 games. He may have well-documented troubles as a passer but he was able to extend drives with his feet and didn't have many turnovers. To that point, the one loss in 2017 was the lone game where execution issues, turnovers, and other miscellaneous blunders on offense and special teams were numerous (and during meaningful game action). Alabama didn't play a very clean game against Auburn. Hurts didn't play well but he wasn't shut down entirely either. The Georgia game was different. They had him diagnosed and he was going to need to do things he hadn't done in two years of starts for Alabama to win. And they had a hot first half from their QB which got UGA out to a big lead and exacerbated the problems for the offense w/ Hurts. Hurts has only one game in his career where he's led the offense back from a big deficit and the 2016 Ole Miss defense was only marginally better than their 2017 outfit that gave up 66 points. Alabama needed to pass to win this game and Tua was the only option.

So Hurts had 12 games where he played a pretty dang clean game, 1 game where the team really melted down and he wasn't good enough to save them by himself, and 1 half where he outright struggled to perform as a college quarterback in "minimal viable" sense. My beef all season was solely that Tua was such a change up that I thought there were a few games where his insertion could've been a shot in the arm to offensive production. But in retrospect, they did what needed to be done to win and maybe inserting Tua in a game like TAMU or LSU would've flipped the results of those games. I don't think Tua could've done a dang thing to stop that Iron Bowl loss...that was a team meltdown, no use to throw the freshman QB's psyche into Chernobyl.
 
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RollTide_HTTR

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I have very little doubt that we could have won every game with Tua as QB. I have absolutely no way of knowing if it would have played out that way though. Jalen made some plays and helped us get there. That should be applauded.
 

bama2112

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I think Hurts was a good game manager like many other Bama quarterbacks. He did not make the mistakes that causes a loss. CNS is not going to be effected by media or fan pressure. So he will start the best QB. Tua had the benefit of 16 games to learn and observe. That helped him learn the offense. Who know whats this year will hold. One more MNC
 

Isaiah 63:1

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I think Hurts was a good game manager like many other Bama quarterbacks. He did not make the mistakes that causes a loss. CNS is not going to be effected by media or fan pressure. So he will start the best QB. Tua had the benefit of 16 games to learn and observe. That helped him learn the offense. Who know whats this year will hold. One more MNC
There’s no “M” in “NC” anymore; unless, of course, one counts 2017 UCF...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

KrAzY3

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Alabama couldn't have won the title without Tua, but it's reasonable to assert that without Hurts they wouldn't have played for one. At what point should Tua have started? That's a complicated answer, but I'd argue that for him to start the Miss. State game or prior to that would have jeopardized the season.

Let's start at FSU. Would anyone really have wanted to throw Tua into the teeth of that defense? Remember, Tua looked great against the second team defense at A-Day, but was noticeably behind Hurts facing the first team defense. He did have a good performance against Fresno St. the following game, but that's not much of an indicator he was big game ready. The following game against Colorado St., the entire offense looked out of sorts with him in, and Saban actually pulled Tua so that Hurts could come in and move the ball and put the game away.

That was followed by two stellar outings that showed Tua was progressing. However, fast forward to the Tennessee game and you see some of the risk. I specifically cited a pick six as one of the risks of putting Tua in when the game was on the line, and fortunately in that game it was already out of reach when Tua threw one.

Then we move forward to the Miss. State game. I'm not sure Tua could have played much better. Alabama's offense was kept off the field most of the game, Hurts came in and had what might have been the best game of his career when you consider what was on the line. That's the point where I wonder if Tua had started are we sure that turns out the same way? One big mistake and Miss. State might have won the game.

From the Auburn game on though, you start to get the sense that Hurts might be regressing while Tua might be game ready. Even the Clemson game though, Hurts didn't make the sort of mistakes that put Clemson back in the game. Alabama suffocated Clemson, and part of that was Hurts playing a very clean, risk adverse game (he actually had pretty good stats).

The Georgia game though, things obviously came to a head and I was demanding Tua in the second half myself. You just knew he was the only one that could do what was being asked of the quarterback. Even then though, disaster was narrow averted. On third down, in Tua's second drive he was very nearly sacked, resulting in a second three and out. Instead he miraculously escapes and continues the drive. He gets on track and brings Alabama back. Then there was some clock management issues late that might have cost Alabama a few yards, and Hurts was brought in to set up the field goal. Finally, we know about the sack. I illustrate those things not to disparage Tua, but to point out that if you substitute him earlier in the season, when he was less prepared, there are plenty of things that could have gone wrong.

I think it's pretty logical to argue that Tua should have started the Clemson game for example, or came in during the Auburn game. I can get that argument. But while I contend that he deserves to be the starter now, I find it a bit presumptuous to assume Tua's sheer talent would have always overcome his inexperience throughout the entire season.

There’s no “M” in “NC” anymore; unless, of course, one counts 2017 UCF...
There never was. It was just something people added to be snide. The real national champions were all selected by actual, real life selectors. Are Oscars mythical because people voted on them?
 
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4Q Basket Case

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Consistent with BigTide's point on JT Barrett, Jalen is the best chance to beat an inferior team. He won't turn the ball over, and his superior running ability just wears them out. And because the opposition is inferior, the fact that he can't pass all that well doesn't matter.

In this context, "inferior" means all but the top 15 teams.

But against a good team, especially a good defense, he's been so thoroughly analyzed that the offense won't be able to move.

The inferior teams know how to defend him just as much as the good ones. They simply don't have the horses to do it.

Like JT Barrett, Jalen is a lock to get you in the running for a championship. Also like JT, he's going to struggle mightily to actually win one.

Jalen will get you to the door. But he can't kick it in. Tua can.
 
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BamaInBham

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I still don't think we're playing for a national title without him starting the first 13 games. He may have well-documented troubles as a passer but he was able to extend drives with his feet and didn't have many turnovers. To that point, the one loss in 2017 was the lone game where execution issues, turnovers, and other miscellaneous blunders on offense and special teams were numerous (and during meaningful game action). Alabama didn't play a very clean game against Auburn. Hurts didn't play well but he wasn't shut down entirely either. The Georgia game was different. They had him diagnosed and he was going to need to do things he hadn't done in two years of starts for Alabama to win. And they had a hot first half from their QB which got UGA out to a big lead and exacerbated the problems for the offense w/ Hurts. Hurts has only one game in his career where he's led the offense back from a big deficit and the 2016 Ole Miss defense was only marginally better than their 2017 outfit that gave up 66 points. Alabama needed to pass to win this game and Tua was the only option.

So Hurts had 12 games where he played a pretty dang clean game, 1 game where the team really melted down and he wasn't good enough to save them by himself, and 1 half where he outright struggled to perform as a college quarterback in "minimal viable" sense. By beef all season was solely that Tua was such a change up that I thought there were a few games where his insertion could've been a shot in the arm to offensive production. But in retrospect, they did what needed to be done to win and maybe inserting Tua in a game like TAMU or LSU would've flipped the results of those games. I don't think Tua could've done a dang thing to stop that Iron Bowl loss...that was a team meltdown, no use to throw the freshman QB's psyche into Chernobyl.
Of course all we can do is speculate, but one likely contributing factor to Bama's meltdown was that the one-legged O lost heart - had been losing it for a while. All AU's good-not-great D had to do was focus on the run. Tua would have posed at least a threat, even if he would not have played a great game. This would have helped the run and O overall. Even without UGA-level-Tua, his presence would have at least offered the hope of a passing game. This would have transferred to the rest of a dispirited team, including an injured D, and things would have been different. Just guessing.

Having said that, it's understandable that CNS stayed with Jalen through the AU game. It was winnable til late in the game and Jalen had proven to that point (24-1) that he could rally Bama down late, he had done it again just 2 weeks prior vs MSU. But after AU, the situation changed. Jalen's aura of invincibility was removed, and CNS had given him every reasonable opportunity to produce. So, the Tua option became a reality. It almost occurred vs Clemson and then did vs UGA. IMO, CNS's reluctance to insert Tua was related more to Jalen's decent/acceptable/winning performance to that point than fear of Tua's inexperience, though that contributed somewhat. But again, a loss with a poor performing offense changed everything.
 

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