Alabama QB competition article

RTR91

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Nov 23, 2007
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Bama usually states height's 1 to 2 inches above what is recorded at the combine - maybe they measure them with their cleats on :). But as you imply it can be overcome, but it does have to be overcome. He seems to have all the skills to do it: ability and savvy/instincts to move in the pocket, the ability to throw hard and accurately on the run, just general intelligence to know what can and should be done. Brees is probably a great comparison in more ways than height. I'm glad you picked someone who is not Samoan and/or left-handed :).
That's not true. The heights and weights of Bama players at the combine were almost identical as to what UA listed.

Plus, we can check Tua's non-bias height from his time at The Opening and Elite 11.
 

BamaInBham

All-American
Feb 14, 2007
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That's not true. The heights and weights of Bama players at the combine were almost identical as to what UA listed.

Plus, we can check Tua's non-bias height from his time at The Opening and Elite 11.
I should have said ~ 1/2" to 1 1/2" rather than 1-2. Most of it is rounding up, not half up. My guess is that Tua is 5'11 1/2" to 6'0 1/2". It doesn't matter that much anyway, all agree he's not tall.

Minkah: RollTide roster 6'1", NFL Combine 6'0"
Ridley: 6'1", 6'0 1/2"
Bo: 6'2", 6'1 3/8"
Harrison: 6'3", 6'2"
Evans: 6'3", 6'1 7/8"
Foster: 6'2", 6'1 5/8"
Frasier: 6'4", 6'2 7/8"
Hand: 6'4", 6'3 5/8"

Don't know if I checked them all but the others were within 1/4".
 

rgw

Suspended
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Agreed - the players said that they did not prepare for Tua. Makes me think that the coaching staff prepared for Tua, but in practice they focused on Jalen. It is almost impossible to stop Jalen without proper preparation. It is like trying to stop the triple option - you need reps.
It was a short prep off a grueling OT game in Pasadena...they focused on the Hurts-led offensive tendencies with the players 100% of the film study and practice prep. They'd been fools not to...
 

4Q Basket Case

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I think the good defenses figured out Jalen Hurts a long time ago. A cursory look at our offensive production last year is a good clue of it.
Not just the good defenses. Everybody has it figured out. Shoot, Mercer sent us on a bunch of 3-and-outs early on.

It's just that our size, speed, conditioning, athleticism and depth is overwhelming.

They all know what they need to do, and how they need to do it. It's just that most can't execute for more than a few possessions before they get worn flat out.

At that point, even though both sidelines and everybody in the stadium know that Jalen isn't a threat as a passer, it simply doesn't matter anymore.
 

Ole Man Dan

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He made "freshman mistakes", clearly. He is an amazing talent, and I it might sound like my comments as an attack on Tua (they're not, he should be the starter from here on out), but I watched him get pulled from the CSU game because of issues. I watched him need to come out after Alabama wasted clock at the end of the Georgia game. I saw some of the things you expect from a true freshman. This has absolutely nothing to do with Tua, and everything to do with what you expect from a true freshman. Clearly he was better than like 99% of the true freshman QBs out there, it's not about that. Inexperienced players make mistakes, it's what they do.


The problem was Alabama didn't start with a soft part. Going back to A-Day, which I did in my first post in this topic, we saw that Hurts clearly managed an elite defense better than Tua. No knock on Tua, that's an experience issue. But to assume the Tua we saw against Georgia would have been the Tua we saw against FSU? That's a stretch, because the Tua that faced FSU would have looked a lot more like the one that faced CSU. I do agree that a nice soft patch of games would have cleaned up most that stuff though, I just have trouble finding the spot to do that, as mop-up duty by itself wasn't enough. Do you start him after the FSU game? That's the best window I see for that to occur, but I'm not sure any coach in the country would sit their starting QB after he just beat one of the top teams in the country.

My main point though is that while I'll concede that from the Auburn game on Tua might have been the better choice, it's really hard to find a "safe" spot to start him earlier. Hurts steered Alabama through rough waters, and Tua saved Alabama's season. Those two things co-exist just fine.


We benefited from having both guys. Most games Jalen made at least one WOW play. Sometimes he was COLD part of a game, but did enough to win.
Tua gained experience all year from inserting him in games that were out of reach.
Tua made a few WOW plays himself. Other times he played like a Freshman.
By the end of the year Tua had gained enough experience that when we needed him,
he was the man.

FAST FORWARD TO NEXT SEASON...
Tua just might be the starter, but Jalen is waiting in the wings.
Jalens ability and Tua's ability are enough to win em all.
It's a cinch that Tua will play a larger role in our Offense next season.

If Tuais in the game and teams put 8 men in the box, he's gonna hurt em.
When they back out of the box, our Running game is gonna kill em.
When they get tired... Jalen will embarrass them.
 

gtgilbert

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Yes, it would be, except that part is on Daboll. He organized the gameplan, he orchestrated things. If he'd instituted a plan like Miss. State, based around eating up clock then things would be different. The idea that Alabama didn't eat up more clock because of the QB isn't really true, because Alabama ran well that game, and it isn't as though Hurts can't throw short stuff. Look up the box score.

Edit:
Daboll consistently had Hurts attempt longer passes throughout the season. The issue with that is it doesn't eat up clock, ever. Either it works and it is a big play, or it doesn't and the clock stops. This was gameplanning. Even Kiffin retained the underneath. Hurts averaged 13.4 per completion. Nick averaged 6.6. Alabama also ran the ball better, averaging 5.3 to 3.5. The fact is that Alabama got outcoached that game, but fortunately not outplayed. I'm not saying Daboll's overall gameplan was a bad one either, but he absolutely could have ran the ball more and had more short passes, underneath, etc... that's exactly how Miss. State put Alabama on the ropes (it is also how Auburn beat Alabama).
You have to account for the fact that much of our offense was based on various option plays though. Daboll calls an OZR with an RPO. If Jalen doesn't hand the ball to the RB when he probably should and keeps it himself, or make the short and intermediate passes and instead runs out of the pocket, that is not on Daboll. I don't think there was any way the intention was for Jalen to run 19 times (even if you take the sacks out, it's still to much). Those were ZR plays and/or RPO plays.

Also, even though the run game looked ok at the top of the box, the details show something different. almost 25% of the total came on one play. MSU stacked everything short limiting the run, and then playing very aggressive coverage to take away the first read, knowing that Jalen would almost always bail to run, or not make the second read. None of that is on Daboll, especially when the second reads were often there, but jalen was already moving out of the pocket to the side which limited his ability to see receivers breaking open.
 

JustNeedMe81

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None of that is on Daboll, especially when the second reads were often there, but jalen was already moving out of the pocket to the side which limited his ability to see receivers breaking open.
I guess we forgot about the OL issue we had throughout the season... that forced Jalen to scramble... I remember Saban speaking on that several times throughout the season.
 

RTR91

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I guess we forgot about the OL issue we had throughout the season... that forced Jalen to scramble... I remember Saban speaking on that several times throughout the season.
I supported Jalen all year, but it became pretty evident a change needed to be made. He was taking off well before the pocket collapsed.

Let's not pretend he scrambled only because the OL missed a block.
 

RollTide_HTTR

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I supported Jalen all year, but it became pretty evident a change needed to be made. He was taking off well before the pocket collapsed.

Let's not pretend he scrambled only because the OL missed a block.
Plus his pocket mobility is pretty poor compared to Tua. If you watch Tua he is much better at *feeling* the pressure and moving in the pocket to avoid it. Jalen didn't do that very well and it would often result in him bailing too early or running into a sack making the OL look worse than it was.
 

Crimson White

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I guess we forgot about the OL issue we had throughout the season... that forced Jalen to scramble... I remember Saban speaking on that several times throughout the season.
But like the offensive coordinator and receivers, the o line seemed to get a lot better when Tua was in the game.
 

JTBama

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I know there was talk of frustration with receivers but I also heard talk of offensive linemen being somewhat discouraged at having to hold their blocks a little longer than expected.
 

KrAzY3

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that is not on Daboll.
We can go back and forth on this, but the simple fact is that Hurts had a great game, and came through when needed. I think that should be easy to accept. That's one issue I have with the context of some discussions. Hurts had bad games, absolutely. The Miss. State game wasn't one of them. But, Daboll always loved the deep ball. One of the first things he did when he arrived was strip the underneath and institute more deep stuff. I'm not buying the idea that in year one Hurts was ok with the underneath and in year two he said screw this, I'm throwing downfield more and I absolutely refuse to throw underneath stuff. It doesn't make any sense to me that Hurts forgot to do something he was very good at during the year one, it seems much more likely that Daboll simply drew up different plays. That aside, on the most important play of the game, Hurts actually shortened a route, so once again we have Daboll trying to draw up a long pass.

I'm not saying Hurts wasn't without his flaws and I openly say now Tua should be the starter, but he played a great game against Miss. State and there clearly, obviously, were changes to the offense made from Kiffin to Daboll. I think that there had to be some issues with the Daboll/Hurts relationship, as it felt like square peg round hole. One big reason Tua looked so great against Georgia is that's how Daboll's offense was designed to work. It wasn't like Tua was always safe in the pocket either, but a lot of the best stuff was sit back there and wait for a long play to develop, and it clearly suited Tua better. The problem with that? Hurts was the starter, not Tua...
 

4Q Basket Case

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Plus his pocket mobility is pretty poor compared to Tua. If you watch Tua he is much better at *feeling* the pressure and moving in the pocket to avoid it. Jalen didn't do that very well and it would often result in him bailing too early or running into a sack making the OL look worse than it was.
Excellent point distinguishing pocket mobility vs. running ability.

Two completely different things.
 

UAH

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I guess we forgot about the OL issue we had throughout the season... that forced Jalen to scramble... I remember Saban speaking on that several times throughout the season.
Just a note to say that pass blocking is the most difficult task to achieve at the college level. I recall Coker was always harried in the pocket even with an All American now NFL left tackle. The last QB I recall not being so harried was AJ who seldom had a dirty jersey. It has to do with knowing where you are going with the ball and getting it out of your hands I believe.
 

rgw

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That's something that sticks out in the LSU replay I watched. Hurts was getting pressured on a high percentage of dropbacks. I didn't keep count but it was striking enough to notice as the game progressed. He had ~6 dropbacks where the play was basically aborted on the snap by a bad miss from a pass protector. That is why I thought so highly of his game that night. He was not really getting a consistent pocket but he was still delivering a good ball and made something out of nothing quite a few times.
 

Crimson White

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I think that there had to be some issues with the Daboll/Hurts relationship, as it felt like square peg round hole. One big reason Tua looked so great against Georgia is that's how Daboll's offense was designed to work. .
About this, I can agree. Most of Daboll's career has been in the NFL, and the quarterbacks actually have to pass the ball proficiently, so he wanted an offense that allowed for that.
 

drwho

Suspended
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It's not embarrassing for the players to admit it. It would be extremely embarrassing for Smart, though. It was obvious they hadn't a clue as to how to deal with the offense with Tua in...
Not that I disagree, but how did Georgia fare against other QBs comparable to Tua, i.e. QBs that can throw a receiver open, rather than wait for them to come open? I have no idea-didn't watch UGA play this year, except for the 1st half against us.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 

RollTide_HTTR

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That's something that sticks out in the LSU replay I watched. Hurts was getting pressured on a high percentage of dropbacks. I didn't keep count but it was striking enough to notice as the game progressed. He had ~6 dropbacks where the play was basically aborted on the snap by a bad miss from a pass protector. That is why I thought so highly of his game that night. He was not really getting a consistent pocket but he was still delivering a good ball and made something out of nothing quite a few times.
Agreed. I still think that might be the best game of his career when you consider the level of competition.
 

rgw

Suspended
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We scored too quickly vs Mississippi State while also letting them go on long time consuming drives. Check out the length of the first half drives based on TOP

State 6:08 (Punt)
Bama 1:54(Punt)
State 3:21 (TD)
Bama 1:54 (TD)
State 6:04 (TD)
Bama 1:13 (TD)
State 2:23 (Fumble)
Bama 0:54 (Punt)
State 3:41 (Punt)
Bama 2:02 (Punt)


So, basically our longest drive (based on time) was shorter than their SHORTEST possession. Plus they had 2 6 minute drives just in the first half. We did much better TOP wise in the 2nd half but by then a lot of the damage was already done.

Also, don't forget we missed a 41 yard FG that would have put us in the lead before the final drive. The reason we had to kick a longish field goal? look at the 3 plays leading up to it

1st and 10
Jalen Hurts run for 1 yard

2nd and 9
Jalen Hurts run for a loss of 4 yards

3rd and 10
Jalen Hurts run for a loss of 4 yards



Who knows what would have happened with Tua in the game but if we are nitpicking individual moments why not this one? What matters now though is that Tua at this point is clearly better and more than likely our starting QB for the next 2 to 3 years.
I am in the process of rewatching the MSU game and just got to the segment you mentioned that I highlighted above. We got in FG range next three plays:

1st and 10 MSU 16: Inside zone read, Hurts decided to keep because he thought he could make the corner with Irv Smith Jr engaged with his man kind of shielding the unblocked guy who was running inside towards the tailback at the time of the read. Irv Smith Jr got knocked on his behind after the keep decision, Hurts ends up with two guys chasing him when his read gave him the indication he could make the corner if Smith just did anything but fall down on his backside seal.

2nd and 9 MSU 15: Pre-snap motion pulls Damien out of the backfield, Irv Smith Jr comes across from strong to weak side for a block. I think this was run/pass option for the quarterback. The key I'm going on is that the strong side receivers are all looking towards the QB at the snap for an indication whether they should be cutting off their routes for blocks or not. Probably meant to be a quick throw behind the line of scrimmage to Damien Harris for a catch and run (because several of the linemen are firing up field off their blocks like a run play) OR a keep by Hurts to run wherever he's reading the blocks for an opening. What happens is the strong side safety goes right down into the flat to take the swing pass to the motion back away, Matt Womack flat out gets dominated by #94, this causes Hurts to try to scramble away to the right to attempt to get away from 94. His pre-snap identification told him they had too many guys on the left side to try to scramble that direction. Ended up unable to out-athlete #94 in a phone booth and got sacked for 4 yard loss.

3rd and 14 from MSU 19: Alabama gets in a 3x1 set, I think the staff decided to just let Hurts run to improve the FG attempt chances. Not a bad call if MSU decided to sit in zone but instead they call a double a-gap blitz which absolutely nullifies any attempt to run the blitzers up field then draw the QB.


What I see is three safe calls that within the context of how the game was playing made a ton of sense. Alabama had been gashing MSU on the ground the entire second half, MSU only had 1 timeout remaining, and they had the opportunity to potentially just drain the clock with a chip-in FGA. You just can't put that on Hurts. The 2nd down play is what blew that series of downs up and it was mostly the combination of an abundantly safe and obvious screen type throw and bad blocking. The 3rd down call is probably the call you make 90 out of 100 times unless Tom Brady or some other all-time great is taking the snap.


Also, wew lad. The pass protection was also pretty dang poor in this game following the rewatch of the LSU game. I really think we are going to see Leatherwood at LT and Williams at RT next Fall. Womack is just a guy on the tape. Williams is solid but I think he projects as an NFL RT anyway.
 

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