Alabama QB competition article

rgw · Apr 26, 2018

I'd like to think there are no Team Tua and Team Jalen going on here because this is literally one team, one fight.

I think highlighting how Tua on two separate occasions nearly killed our chances to win the national title with boneheaded plays is justified. One time he was bailed out by the defense and even that was a bit of a chance fluke of a helmet being in the right place at the right time. The other time he bailed himself out. A quarterback who never loses a game in college will not be able to get away with plays like that in about a quarter to third of the games he plays in over his 2-3 years.

Crimson White · Apr 26, 2018

rgw said:
I'd like to think there are no Team Tua and Team Jalen going on here because this is literally one team, one fight.

.

I certainly bet the vast majority of us feel that way, though most of us can reasonably and rationally debate and/or discuss the situation. It's no sin or crime, anyway, to be a fan of a particular player. I generally prefer team to a number, but I'll admit I am a bit of a Coker fan because he kept working hard and when he got a chance, he improved over the course of the season, got better, and helped win us a title.

tusks_n_raider · Apr 26, 2018

When CNS brings up protecting the football I assume that's him just trying to keep that priority in a young QB's mind.

It's not an indictment against Tua being reckless or anything. How could it be?? He had 2 INT's all year..... He also had 13 TD's....

49 of 77 (63.6%) 636 yards 9.9 YPA 11TD's passing 2TD's rushing 2INT's 175 Rating

He throws a TD pass every 7 ATTEMPTS!!! His passing TD-INT ratio is 5.5-1!!!! Every pass almost averages a 1st down (9.9 yards).

I mean....lol....he is just a WEAPON back there. He's not a liability....AT ALL.

BamaMoon · Apr 26, 2018

tusks_n_raider said:
When CNS brings up protecting the football I assume that's him just trying to keep that priority in a young QB's mind.

It's not an indictment against Tua being reckless or anything. How could it be?? He had 2 INT's all year..... He also had 13 TD's....

I mean....lol....he is just a WEAPON back there. He's not a liability....AT ALL.

Right on track. If CNS had Tom Brady he'd be saying the same thing.

Mark it down, next year we'll have our highest INT total that we've had since Jalen came in, but, mark it down, we'll be a more proficient offense than we've been since AJMac was under center.

INTs don't typically lose games; but not scoring TDs will. We'll be just fine.

RollTide_HTTR · Apr 26, 2018

rgw said:
I'd like to think there are no Team Tua and Team Jalen going on here because this is literally one team, one fight.

I think highlighting how Tua on two separate occasions nearly killed our chances to win the national title with boneheaded plays is justified. One time he was bailed out by the defense and even that was a bit of a chance fluke of a helmet being in the right place at the right time. The other time he bailed himself out. A quarterback who never loses a game in college will not be able to get away with plays like that in about a quarter to third of the games he plays in over his 2-3 years.

Agreed. I just also think both plays are understandable and easily correctable. He was put in the highest pressured situation possible for his 1st real shot at playing time. The int I think he just panicked a little which you don't want but again given the rest of his play and the situation I would be shocked if we ever saw something like that happen again. The sack is a little more concerning but I still think its correctable. It would be more concerning if he threw another Int similar to the Tennessee game

rgw · Apr 26, 2018

I don't necessarily buy that Tua will throw double digit interceptions and even if he did it would come with 40+ passing touchdowns if you just projected out his full season numbers based on his true freshman spot duty. We shall see...

rgw · Apr 26, 2018

And lets remember he made two big mistakes when we literally gave him his first real substantive play time in the national championship game. If Jake Coker would've come on in the second half of the Sugar Bowl in 2014...now that would've been something ugly. He got to become a very good quarterback but if we would've thrown him out there for extended play time when we had to throw to win...not very good.

BamaMoon · Apr 26, 2018

rgw said:
I don't necessarily buy that Tua will throw double digit interceptions and even if he did it would come with 40+ passing touchdowns if you just projected out his full season numbers based on his true freshman spot duty. We shall see...

I tend to agree. My comment about him having more than Jalen just means he'll be throwing more passes and into tighter area. It'll yield a few more INTs but ALOT more TDs.

In a full year I could see Tua having a TD/INT ratio of something like 35-40 TDs/5-10 INTs. Who wouldn't take that, especially considering that'll probably mean our running game will feast on running opportunities the passing game opens up.

Again, last time I check the best NFL QBs usually have a TD/INT ration of about 3 or 4 to 1.

CoachJeff · Apr 26, 2018

Jalen had 1 INT all of last year, so even last year Tua had more INTs.

That's part of the problem - Jalen is trigger shy.

Intl.Aperture · Apr 26, 2018

BamaMoon said:
Shoot guys, it sounds like some of your are tricking yourself into thinking having Tua at QB is a bad thing! For crying out loud, step away from the ledge.

First, we went thru the idea that we might be better with "not so great QBs."

Then, we want to turn Dilfer's "educated opinion" that Tua is really good into "rat poison." But remember Dilfer isn't a coach talking up his on players (like Gus) and he's not your average sports journalist hack who never played football trying to get clicks.

He sunshine pumped the bejezzus out of Blake Barnett as well. He said Sean White was a "Program Changer", he said Kirk Cousins was a permanent backup with a low ceiling, he said Christian Hackenburg is a #1 overall pick, he has sunshine pumped Justin Fields relentlessly, & he predicted Tua to win the Heisman this upcoming season and said he could go his entire career without losing a game. He constantly makes NFL QB comparisons to unproven college talent.
That's rat poison. Rat poison doesn't mean people saying untrue things, it's just unabashed and sometimes unearned praise that glosses over the difficulty and unlikelihood of that person or team achieving said goals.

Dilfer is known for his hot takes. He is absolutely someone who says these things for the attention they garner.

He also gave us these stunning barrages of intellect...

Bamabuzzard · Apr 26, 2018

rgw said:
I don't necessarily buy that Tua will throw double digit interceptions and even if he did it would come with 40+ passing touchdowns if you just projected out his full season numbers based on his true freshman spot duty. We shall see...

The argument of "Tua is going to turn the ball over more than Jalen" rings extremely hollow with me.

Basically here's what we're choosing from:

Option #1 Jalen- Not going to turn the ball over, is always a running threat. But the offense will be rendered one dimensional when going against above average defenses. Consequently putting pressure on the defense and special teams to come up with points to compensate for the lack of scoring from the offense.

Option #2 Tua- Will be make the offense more dynamic and will put more points on the board. But will turn the ball over more with his aggressive nature of play. Consequently putting the defense in bad situations to have to defend short fields.

This is an over-simplified assessment but overall this is basically what we're picking from. Give me option #2 because with Tua's turnovers he still gives you the ability to not only make up for the turnover but continue to put points on the scoreboard. With Jalen, though he's not going to turn the ball over. The offense isn't putting points on the scoreboard.

tusks_n_raider · Apr 26, 2018

BamaMoon said:
In a full year I could see Tua having a TD/INT ratio of something like 35-40 TDs/5-10 INTs. Who wouldn't take that, especially considering that'll probably mean our running game will feast on running opportunities the passing game opens up.

I'm thinking almost the exact same thing. I can honestly see him averaging 3 passing TD's a game at least and maybe 1 INT every other game on average.

I won't be shocked if by SECCG weekend he has 36 passing TD's or more and 5-6 INT's and we are 12-0 with a Top 5-10 Offense.

I'm also taking into account he will get a lot of 4th quarters off like Jalen did last year.

IF he played full games all year.... whew I'm kind of scared to even post that projection....lol... He might could throw 4-5 TD's a game.

I've never seen a QB quite like this kid.

I can't wait to hear Gary Danielson all year too...lol... I have a feeling People will get Tebow-like Fatigue!!

westide · Apr 26, 2018

it is harder to intercept Jalen's passes when many are thrown six feet over the receiver's heads or at their feet.

Crimson White · Apr 26, 2018

westide said:
it is harder to intercept Jalen's passes when many are thrown six feet over the receiver's heads or at their feet.

Or players and coaches on the sideline catching the pass.

Intl.Aperture · Apr 26, 2018

westide said:
it is harder to intercept Jalen's passes when many are thrown six feet over the receiver's heads or at their feet.

He's just protecting the ball.

rgw · Apr 26, 2018

Yeah, I think we all agree that Hurts sterling turnover percentage despite being a high use rate QB due to the runs and passes he makes is not really the gold star on his report card some make it out to be. It was basically a component of not having to pass much and his unwillingness to take any chances due to not trusting his own arm.

Intl.Aperture · Apr 26, 2018

rgw said:
Yeah, I think we all agree that Hurts sterling turnover percentage despite being a high use rate QB due to the runs and passes he makes is not really the gold star on his report card some make it out to be. It was basically a component of not having to pass much and his unwillingness to take any chances due to not trusting his own arm.

He did not make a lot of 50/50 passes or take a lot of risk, preferring instead to trust his feet. So in 3rd down scenarios where we need 7-15 yards, instead of making a tight throw he'd take off and get 4-5 yards (sometimes all of it, tbf) and incur positive individual stats without really helping the team as a whole.

That stat of 1 int, while certainly positive, is deceiving in it's implication.

RollTide_HTTR · Apr 26, 2018

There needs to be a good way (if there isn't already) to quantify 3 and outs. Obviously they aren't as bad as TOs because of field position but I'm sure we had enough 3 and outs to make up for the lack of turnovers.

Intl.Aperture · Apr 26, 2018

RollTide_HTTR said:
There needs to be a good way (if there isn't already) to quantify 3 and outs. Obviously they aren't as bad as TOs because of field position but I'm sure we had enough 3 and outs to make up for the lack of turnovers.

Especially if you factor in field position.

(Edit: I see that we were 60th in 3rd down conversion. Penn St. Ohio St. Clemson Mississippi St. Wisconsin & Georgia are in the top 11)

(Double Edit: We were 13th in rushing offense and 91st in passing offense)

CraigD · Apr 26, 2018

If I played quarterback and only threw to wide-open receivers then I might be able to go a whole season with one interception also.

You’re not gonna throw a lot of interceptions if you’re not willing to make aggressive throws.

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