Alabama QB competition article

RollTide_HTTR said:

It's hard to keep talking about this but its equally hard not to. Tua's performacne in the NCG was the ultimate tease.

Click to expand...

Double tease when he gets held out of spring practice. If he had practiced and played well it would almost have put this thing to bed. But Jalen gets all the reps at 1 and has a puncher's chance. People may disagree with that assessment but I think the only reason there is currently a debate is because Tua wasn't able to split reps at 1 all Spring and din't get to spin it in the A-Day game. My honest opinion is that Tua likely would have taken a lot of sacks in that game as well. The line played poorly and two-hand-touch rules really kill the scramble factor. And while I thin Tua is better on the whole at standing in the pocket and distributing the ball, I think he also scrambles a lot. Very Russel Wilson-esque.

Intl.Aperture said:

Double tease when he gets held out of spring practice. If he had practiced and played well it would almost have put this thing to bed. But Jalen gets all the reps at 1 and has a puncher's chance. People may disagree with that assessment but I think the only reason there is currently a debate is because Tua wasn't able to split reps at 1 all Spring and din't get to spin it in the A-Day game. My honest opinion is that Tua likely would have taken a lot of sacks in that game as well. The line played poorly and two-hand-touch rules really kill the scramble factor. And while I thin Tua is better on the whole at standing in the pocket and distributing the ball, I think he also scrambles a lot. Very Russel Wilson-esque.

Click to expand...

Yup. Completely agree with everything here.

JustNeedMe81 said:

Valid point, but Bama QBs don't typically do well in Spring games... Let's wait and see how it goes in Fall camp. I haven't heard a peep about how the QBs is performing in summer workouts.

Click to expand...

Well, it wasn't just the spring game. Jalen simply didn't do well when playing against a team with a good defense.Saban said he wants the QB to win the team over. When Tua came into the NC game the play of the whole team improved. If that isn't winning over a team I don't know what is. If Tua had started the 1st half of the NC game we would have beaten UGA by a couple of TDs. Summer workouts are fine, but on the biggest stage of college football we saw who won the QB battle.

Intl.Aperture said:

To be fair our QB's almost never do well against our defense regardless of the time of year. But then again, only generational type QB's do.
.

Click to expand...

I think that's what we'll probably decide with Tua...Time will tell but I think he'll be one of our great ones.

And to be fair, last year we heard rumors that he was cutting up our defense (not sure it was 1's or 2's or both) during practices all throughout the year. I think the first hand witnesses to this is what probably led to the rumored "mutiny" because those guys saw the difference in Tua and Jalen every day in practice.

JustNeedMe81 said:

Valid point, but Bama QBs don't typically do well in Spring games... Let's wait and see how it goes in Fall camp. I haven't heard a peep about how the QBs is performing in summer workouts.

Click to expand...

We've been waiting and seeing for over two years now.

Moro Creek said:

We've been waiting and seeing for over two years now.

Click to expand...

I think we all know Tua is going to be the starter, but wow two whole years?!?!?!

We saw 5 A-Day performances before Blake Sims got things sorted out (does anyone remember his A-Day performances?). Coker started as a fifth year senior, after being beaten out by the same Blake Sims who finally figured it out. GMac had four years before he started, and even then went through the worst three game stretch of any Saban Alabama QB midway through that (undefeated) season. AJ got two years before he had to sort things out, the only one who didn't was Tua, and I think we can all agree he was exceptional. The fact is two years is really not very long when it comes to QB development.

KrAzY3 said:

I think we all know Tua is going to be the starter, but wow two whole years?!?!?!

We waited 5 for Blake Sims to get things sorted out (does anyone remember his A-Day performances?). Coker started as a fifth year senior, after being beaten out by the same Blake Sims who finally figured it out. GMac had four years before he started, and even then went through the worst three game stretch of any Saban Alabama QB midway through that (undefeated) season. AJ got two years before he had to sort things out, the only one who didn't was Tua, and I think we can all agree he was exceptional. The fact is two years is really not very long when it comes to QB development.

Click to expand...

IMO, you could give Jalen 20 years and he would never play as well as Tua played against Georgia.

B1GTide said:

IMO, you could give Jalen 20 years and he would never play as well as Tua played against Georgia.

Click to expand...

That's not the point though. We've had numerous, heck it's basically the norm, examples of players at Alabama taking 3 or 4 years before they're ready to be a major contributor, and for the most part we don't think much of it. Here people sometimes act like its been an eternity, it hasn't... dude's still a teenager. I prefaced it with something about Tua, but the fact is if you hold people to an unreasonable standard, you expect unreasonable results.

I agree with B1G on this. I stated several times already though that, in my opinion (which is pretty much worthless to anyone but me), Jalen being pressed into action so early likely was a detriment to his growth as a QB. He came here to learn to be a passing QB, but never really had much opportunity to sit back and watch and learn because we needed him to go and play right away with the limited skill set he had. But you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube now. He has experienced two years of being the starter, which should have been time on the bench learning. He will not likely accept going into his junior year and having to now take the steps he should have taken two years ago. Honestly, though, it would not matter if he did. Tua is better and should start the next two years. And once he steps aside, either his brother, or the Tyson kid, or some other player will step in next. None of this is Jalen's fault, but it is reality. I think the Jalen apologist ITT thinks we all hate Jalen or blame him for his shortcomings. I know I don't blame him for not being a good passing QB. I blame all the coaches from the time he started playing football up until now for allowing him to ignore his weaknesses and not fixing those many years ago, instead just capitalizing on the athleticism in order to get the more convenient win now.

KrAzY3 said:

That's not the point though. We've had numerous, heck it's basically the norm, examples of players at Alabama taking 3 or 4 years before they're ready to be a major contributor, and for the most part we don't think much of it. Here people sometimes act like its been an eternity, it hasn't... dude's still a teenager. I prefaced it with something about Tua, but the fact is if you hold people to an unreasonable standard, you expect unreasonable results.

Click to expand...

I don't think that folks are holding Jalen to an unreasonable standard now (though they might have been after the loss to Clemson).

Tua is now the standard, and Jalen suffers in that comparison. Heck, AJ would probably suffer in that comparison. No shame in that.

RedWave said:

Jalen being pressed into action so early likely was a detriment to his growth as a QB. He came here to learn to be a passing QB, but never really had much opportunity to sit back and watch and learn because we needed him to go and play right away with the limited skill set he had.

Click to expand...

I agree with this, and at the time I basically warned this could happen. I said starting a true freshman could hurt his development (and I used some examples like Mitch Mustain). I think part of the story people might be missing with Tua is that even though he clearly arrived more developed than Hurts was when he arrived, he also benefited from being able to develop a bit with less pressure on him. Instead of being thrown to the wolves early, at least he got most of the season to acclimate and prepare for his big moment. I think it's a very good thing he wasn't thrown to the wolves against FSU for example. The Tua we saw against Georgia simply wasn't the one we saw against CSU.

So yeah, hindsight being what it is, I think Hurts would have been far better off redshirting, then having a year or two to develop rather than how things played out, and yes that can't all be undone. But, the point I would make yet again (and I do think the Alabama QB battle is over) is just that it's really kind of silly to look at a 19 year old and act like nothing can change. If anything it's usually the other way around, you expect most of these guys to take major steps forward as juniors and seniors, and if they don't you're disappointed. With Hurts some seem to act like yeah he had two whole years, heck he's almost 20 now and if he hasn't figured it out he never will...

B1GTide said:

Tua is now the standard

Click to expand...

He's not though. He's the standard for what it takes to be an Alabama starting quarterback right now, but he in no way is the standard in terms of how we should expect a quarterback to develop. If he is, all Alabama quarterbacks in the foreseeable future are probably doomed.

KrAzY3 said:

He's not though. He's the standard for what it takes to be an Alabama starting quarterback right now, but he in no way is the standard in terms of how we should expect a quarterback to develop. If he is, all Alabama quarterbacks in the foreseeable future are probably doomed.

Click to expand...

Well, QBs at Alabama have been compared to Namath and Stabler for decades. They were the standard for a long time. Nothing wrong with that.

B1GTide said:

Well, QBs at Alabama have been compared to Namath and Stabler for decades. They were the standard for a long time. Nothing wrong with that.

Click to expand...

I don't recall that happening really. AJ, may be? I seriously have no recollection of those names being brought up in regards to JPW, GMac, Coker, or Sims for example. If they were, it certainly wasn't often enough to discuss further. It would be ridiculous and unfair to constantly bring up Hall of Fame QBs when talking about what ever starter Alabama has at a given moment. I was going to ask if they did that at Ohio State, but I guess it wouldn't be that unfair to compare present day quarterbacks to Mike Tomczak, heh.

Having said that, I mean I get it, Tua is here now, I'm just saying no, it's not just not going to be fair to compare the development of the most developed young QB of the Saban era to the others.

While I'm poking fun though, the list I'm looking at has JT as the all time best Ohio State QB. So does that mean Hurts can transfer there and become their new all time best QB?

KrAzY3 said:

I
While I'm poking fun though, the list I'm looking at has JT as the all time best Ohio State QB. So does that mean Hurts can transfer there and become their new all time best QB?

Click to expand...

Jalen would do a whole lot better in Meyer's offense than in Saban's offense, but he is not the answer that we are looking for. I just can't see Jalen beating an Alabama defense, no matter what team he is playing on or the offense that he is running.

OSU needs a QB that can beat Clemson and Alabama.

I am anxiously awaiting this board's response if CNS goes with Hurts over Tua. It will be a meltdown of epic proportions.

GrayTide said:

I am anxiously awaiting this board's response if CNS goes with Hurts over Tua. It will be a meltdown of epic proportions.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't hold my breath on that. After the open mic comment made by CNS during the spring game, I believe there is as much chance of Tua not starting (except for an injury) as CNS giving his next news conference in a pink tutu.

GrayTide said:

I am anxiously awaiting this board's response if CNS goes with Hurts over Tua. It will be a meltdown of epic proportions.

Click to expand...

I don't care who he starts as long as Tua sticks around to bail him out if he chooses poorly. Now, if he starts Jalen and Tua transfers, there would be a meltdown. And it would be warranted because the dynasty would end.

B1GTide said:

I don't care who he starts as long as Tua sticks around to bail him out if he chooses poorly. Now, if he starts Jalen and Tua transfers, there would be a meltdown. And it would be warranted because the dynasty would end.

Click to expand...

I’m not sure it would end the Dynasty right away but yeah it would be BAD. After last years near revolt it might fracture the team and devastate the progress we’ve made getting back on track with recruiting.

We might lose our WR’s and #13’s best friend is Najee. Taulia would be out of the mix too.

We’d have to hope Mac Jones and or Tyson develop into an elite QB quickly to avoid disaster.

There’s a ton more negative ramifications of Tua not starting than Jalen that’s for sure.

But having said all that I can’t imagine a scenario where Tua doesn’t start as long as he’s healthy and doesn’t do anything negative off the field.

From everything we’ve seen he’s a great young man (as is Jalen) so I don’t foresee off the field issues with our QB’s.

I honestly think our starting QB’s last name will be Tagovailoa for the next 4-6 years.

B1GTide said:

the dynasty would end.

Click to expand...

First, I think there's no real QB battle. We've seen AJ vs. Phillip, Sims vs. Coker, Coker vs. Bateman, and Hurts vs. Barnett. This isn't that, and even then the outcomes were somewhat telegraphed. If Tua is healthy and behaving himself, he's the starter, I can't really imagine another outcome.

Having said that, Saban made Alabama a championship contender out of a JPW lead team. Feel free to look up JPW's stats and Alabama's offense during that period, you can check out the recruiting as well. They were far short of a juggernaut offensively, they were not loaded with 5 stars. Then, the following year they win a championship with a sometimes struggling QB who was hurt in the championship game and threw for 58 yards.

Sure, things have changed a bit, but Alabama's offense has consistently put up a similar number of yards and points no matter who the QB was. They went to a championship game with a true freshman Hurts, who was the worst throwing version of Hurts, and they still almost won a championship then to.

I've seen data to indicate Alabama is actually at their best when they lean on a strong running game instead of a strong QB, and I say this not to argue for Hurts starting, that should be Tua, but that the engine for success at Alabama is defense and running the ball. Would centering the offense around Hurts have been a setback in terms of losing some skill players? Yes, it would have. But I find the idea that Saban has a house of cards that would have just fallen down to be hard to buy. He won with weaker classes than he had last year, he's won with 3 star guys, and should I remind everyone Alabama won championships with the wishbone? The wishbone turned an NFL QB factory into a completely different offense. Alabama still won didn't they?

If Saban adjusted his offense to a less pro-style offense, one could argue he'd find more success in some areas. I'm not saying that should have happened, or I wished it would have happened, but I think people saying Saban couldn't handle a Hurts as the starter type scenario seem to miss the obvious. He went to two championship games under that scenario, without even having an offense that fit the personnel. If his hand was forced to go all the way down the road, he'd compensate for loss of personnel with an offense that better fit who he did have.