Alabama QB competition article
- Thread starter Redwood Forrest
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Oh yeah I completely agree. This is wayyyy over the top. I'm sure most Alabama fans are already thinking this anyway tbh so someone like Dilfer saying out loud is just going to make it worse. Like BIG said...Rat poison
I think Tua is the key to our future but I'm not about to say that he could go unbeaten. Even if he plays perfect the rest of the team must play every game at a high level. I think though that any QB will eventually make a mistake that will cost his team a game. With Jalen, his passing problems may have lost us the Auburn game and would have lost us the Georgia game. Tua could lose us a game sometime by trying to thread the needle on a pass and the opponent gets a Pick-Six. All a team can do is to go with the QB that can do the most good while realizing that he's not perfect and may cost his team a game along the way.
Folks, I just watched the 35 minute version of 2017 Ole Miss (bored in the garage and tired of fiddling with these carb jets). I forgot how dominant the team looked before all the injuries, but Jalen looked like he turned the corner. I know OM is soft on D, but they aren't scout teamers. I think this is why it has been so difficult to accept the inevitable for many of us, and maybe some coaches.
Take the respect for Jalen's character out of the picture; he looked like he was vastly improving and going to really reach a new level of play. I think that may be why it broke so many of our hearts to realize he hit his ceiling over the last four games.
Take the respect for Jalen's character out of the picture; he looked like he was vastly improving and going to really reach a new level of play. I think that may be why it broke so many of our hearts to realize he hit his ceiling over the last four games.
Dilfer also said that AU's Sean White was a program changer. So, forgetting Dilfer, IMO, Tua does have a reasonable chance of going 30-0. I think Mac Jones, who may only be average, could go 15-0 this year. Barring debilitating injuries and assuming the OL pans out, Bama should only be threatened 2-4 games. The schedule appears weak and the team is very good, enthusiastic and on a bit of a carpet ride after the magical NC game. It's not a reasonable expectation, but it is a reasonable hope.
It wasn’t as even as it seemed. Auburn got a chump play to start the game and an onside kick with another chump play. 14-0 out the gate. Then we tied it 14-14 in the half. Then another chump play to start the 3rd 21-14 Auburn. Then Bama pretty much scored the next 3 times with like a 10 minute drive for the game winner.
It was more of Alabama getting caught feeling out Auburn while Auburn came out swinging. After that initial burst it kinda felt Alabama was in control, the only question was whether Bama was going to win by 2 or 6-7.
And he already did engineer one national title as a true freshman. That one's in the books.
Well, here's a hint:
2007 - Auburn has off week before the game, Alabama loses to ULM (AUB wins IB)
2008 - both teams have off week (ALA wins)
2009 - Auburn has off week, Alabama plays UTC - and the rest is a day short plus on the road plus what RTR91 points out (ALA barely wins)
2010 - Auburn has 12 days off, Alabama moves up the Ga State game in a season with 7 games vs rested foes (AUB wins)
2011 - Auburn plays Samford, Alabama plays Ga Southern (ALA wins a rout)
2012 - Auburn plays Alabama A/M, Tide plays WCU (ALA in a rout)
2013 - Tide plays UTC, Auburn has 13 days to calm down from the UGA miracle (AUB wins)
2014 - we play WCU, they play Samford (ALA wins)
2015 - we play Charleston So, they play Idaho (ALA wins)
2016 - they play Ala A/M, we play UTC (ALA wins)
2017 - they play ULM, we play Mercer (AUB wins)
basically, they've beaten us (2017 is the sole exception) when....wait for it.......we had a game and they didn't.
("Oh, but you played......".....well, if that's the argument then why have they made sure to have that off week right there? It's still football, where injuries
can easily occur).
Now - I'm fair - and it would be an exaggeration to say, "Well, the only reason Auburn beat us is because they had the week off," but we also cannot dismiss that as a
contributing factor, either. In 2010, the SEC office was trying to get us some schedule relief and wanted Auburn to move one of their conference games to the week
before the Iron Bowl (I think it was Kentucky as both had November 20 off). Chizik made it crystal clear he wasn't moving jack, which is fine, but I wish folks would
come right out and say, "We want the advantage of the off week" rather than hide behind the alleged logistical problem (hey, if LSU and Florida can work it out
in less than a month then so could Auburn with several months.....if they REALLY wanted to do it).
I've documented elsewhere here how Tennessee's success even when they had a better team was primarily due to them making sure to be off the week before they played us.
1) It was a rivalry game
2) on the road
3) against a rested foe whose entire incentive was to destroy our season
4) with all the pressure in the world on us to win (unlike nowadays NO room for ANY failure to win, even a bit)
5) plus all the other stuff RTR91 points out
I can cite rivalry game after rivalry game where a very overmatched foe puts up the fight of a lifetime
2014 Michigan-Ohio St
2009 Texas-ATM
Hell..
2003 K/State vs OU (what was THAT about?)
2009 Texas/Nebraska
Just a reminder that the reason Tua completed a 2nd and 26......was because he was sacked for a 16-yard loss while trying to do too much.......
And he made plenty of other small mistakes in the game as well. They are well documented (the ugly INT. miscommunication, that ugly sack, not centering the ball properly at the end of regulation.) I'm sure you remember them better than I do ; )
I chalk this up to 2 separate things. #1 Being a freshman. Definitely a learning curve. #2 The sheer pressure of being a freshman coming in at halftime in a championship game. We really don't know what effect that fact had on his gameplay.
With a buttload of playing time against regular competition in lower stress situations, those types of mistakes are ironed out. Remember how many times Jalen fumbled the ball in his freshman year? A lot. But, he worked on ball security and was VASTLY improved his 2nd year because it's a very teachable thing.
You are absolutely right BUT I think the errors that Tua committed are more easily remedied with coaching and experience AND lets not forget that despite ALL these mistakes his upside was so mammoth that he STILL torched a championship caliber defense and hung 26 points on them in 1 half of football.
I think it's his success DESPITE the niggling mistakes and errors that has people so excited. Despite making some pretty grievous errors he was still so talented that he was able to engineer a comeback victory in a championship game, thanks largely to his talent. (Due credit also goes to Mr. Najee Harris and the other supporting players for doing a sterling job, not you Andy.)
The thing with a highly skilled quarterback, and I've touched on this before, is that even the best quarterbacks throw incompletions and interceptions. Every time they go back to pass, bad things can happen. There's a reason that Alabama liked run heavy offenses paired with great defenses. This isn't because it was the best way to score, or the best way to score fast, it was just really, really safe. You start airing it out, you can put up big numbers. But, to give an example, I took a quick look at the top 100 single season passing yard totals, and I only saw two of those resulting in national titles in those seasons (Watson and Winston, both paired with very good defenses).
You might want a great quarterback, but you don't want him trying to do too much. The list is full of full of NFL QBs, guys like Case Keenum, Jim McMahon, Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers, Marcus Mariota, Byron Leftwich, Derek Carr, Sam Bradford, and Ben Roethlisberger (I'm pretty sure the list contains more Super Bowl champs than college champs). There's also other modern college phenoms like Johnny Manziel, Sam Darnold, and Baker Mayfield, with their 0 national championships total.
Great QB play can lead a team to a title, that's for sure. But it's not just the QB throwing darts all over the field. Protecting the football and mobility for instance, have played a large role in recent memory. For example, in Cam Newton's title season he only threw 7 interceptions while rushing for 20 TDs. When Tebow won in 2008, he threw only 4 interceptions while rushing for 12 TDs. Vince Yound threw 10 interceptions and rushed for 12 TDs in his title season. Watson did throw more INTs than he had rushing TDs in his title season, but his 629 yards rushing with 9 TDs helped balance those out. Even Winston got 219 yards and 4 TDs on the ground. So, the idea of a dominant college quarterback winning titles is a real thing, but dominant in college is more than just putting up big passing numbers.
That brings me to the only real concern about Tua (aside from injuries) and it's something that Saban mentioned recently. It's all about protecting the football. The margin of error is very low, yes he can usually atone for mistakes by making great plays, but in close games there's no guarantee you have enough time to sort that out. I remember a discussion earlier about quarterbacks who would have won or lost this or that game, and JPW's ULM game came to mind. He didn't play bad, 21/31, 246 yards. But he had two INTs, one being a pick 6. That was enough for Alabama to be beat by a significantly worse team that day. A couple big mistakes at the wrong time can turn a comfortable win into a loss. I also mentioned Blake Sims game against Ohio State as an example. He played well actually, aside from the 3 INTs. Those were enough to lose the game though.
So, just a couple mistakes is all it takes. That can be the difference between being a champion or not, and mistakes are easier to make through the air. For instance, some of Drew Brees interceptions are not his fault. He's throwing a rocket into tight coverage, the ball gets tipped by the receiver, into the hands of a defender and now the other team has the ball. It still counts though. And sometimes that still leads to a loss. Now, you have to take risks, but you also want to limit your exposure to those risks. Tua can do that. But, the key will be that Alabama finds a way to use his downfield passing abilities without relying on them too much. If they can do that, they won't lose many games, that's for sure.
You might want a great quarterback, but you don't want him trying to do too much. The list is full of full of NFL QBs, guys like Case Keenum, Jim McMahon, Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers, Marcus Mariota, Byron Leftwich, Derek Carr, Sam Bradford, and Ben Roethlisberger (I'm pretty sure the list contains more Super Bowl champs than college champs). There's also other modern college phenoms like Johnny Manziel, Sam Darnold, and Baker Mayfield, with their 0 national championships total.
Great QB play can lead a team to a title, that's for sure. But it's not just the QB throwing darts all over the field. Protecting the football and mobility for instance, have played a large role in recent memory. For example, in Cam Newton's title season he only threw 7 interceptions while rushing for 20 TDs. When Tebow won in 2008, he threw only 4 interceptions while rushing for 12 TDs. Vince Yound threw 10 interceptions and rushed for 12 TDs in his title season. Watson did throw more INTs than he had rushing TDs in his title season, but his 629 yards rushing with 9 TDs helped balance those out. Even Winston got 219 yards and 4 TDs on the ground. So, the idea of a dominant college quarterback winning titles is a real thing, but dominant in college is more than just putting up big passing numbers.
That brings me to the only real concern about Tua (aside from injuries) and it's something that Saban mentioned recently. It's all about protecting the football. The margin of error is very low, yes he can usually atone for mistakes by making great plays, but in close games there's no guarantee you have enough time to sort that out. I remember a discussion earlier about quarterbacks who would have won or lost this or that game, and JPW's ULM game came to mind. He didn't play bad, 21/31, 246 yards. But he had two INTs, one being a pick 6. That was enough for Alabama to be beat by a significantly worse team that day. A couple big mistakes at the wrong time can turn a comfortable win into a loss. I also mentioned Blake Sims game against Ohio State as an example. He played well actually, aside from the 3 INTs. Those were enough to lose the game though.
So, just a couple mistakes is all it takes. That can be the difference between being a champion or not, and mistakes are easier to make through the air. For instance, some of Drew Brees interceptions are not his fault. He's throwing a rocket into tight coverage, the ball gets tipped by the receiver, into the hands of a defender and now the other team has the ball. It still counts though. And sometimes that still leads to a loss. Now, you have to take risks, but you also want to limit your exposure to those risks. Tua can do that. But, the key will be that Alabama finds a way to use his downfield passing abilities without relying on them too much. If they can do that, they won't lose many games, that's for sure.
What`s the old saying, " When you throw, three things can happen and two of them are bad " ?
Shoot guys, it sounds like some of your are tricking yourself into thinking having Tua at QB is a bad thing! For crying out loud, step away from the ledge.
First, we went thru the idea that we might be better with "not so great QBs."
Then, we want to turn Dilfer's "educated opinion" that Tua is really good into "rat poison." But remember Dilfer isn't a coach talking up his on players (like Gus) and he's not your average sports journalist hack who never played football trying to get clicks.
Next, we're trying analyze Tua's sack over his make up play, which I find ironic because part of Dilfer's praise is Tua's ability to learn from a play and do something great the next play.
Finally, we are going to use "there are three things to happen when you pass and two are bad" to worry about Tua losing us a game in the crunch. I would suggests there are more than 3 things that happen when a QB runs the ball when he can't pass it and all of those are bad, but won't go there.
Is it the off season yet???
First, we went thru the idea that we might be better with "not so great QBs."
Then, we want to turn Dilfer's "educated opinion" that Tua is really good into "rat poison." But remember Dilfer isn't a coach talking up his on players (like Gus) and he's not your average sports journalist hack who never played football trying to get clicks.
Next, we're trying analyze Tua's sack over his make up play, which I find ironic because part of Dilfer's praise is Tua's ability to learn from a play and do something great the next play.
Finally, we are going to use "there are three things to happen when you pass and two are bad" to worry about Tua losing us a game in the crunch. I would suggests there are more than 3 things that happen when a QB runs the ball when he can't pass it and all of those are bad, but won't go there.
Is it the off season yet???
I rarely even pay attention to who or what poster makes the comments, but as not uncommon in a situation like this, some are Jalen Hurts fans and a few will wait for opportunities to belittle Tagovailoa's talent and accomplishments, given a chance, and of course, with a young and inexperienced qb, there will be no lack of chances.
The 3 things that happen when you pass the ball, and 2 are bad, was a favorite quote back in the Bryant years. It's a whole totally other game now. Without a proficient and balanced passing offense, it will be very hard to win titles.
What ledge? Saban is on record, in the past few days as saying that Tua needs to protect the football better.
His words, not mine.
Now, does that mean that Tua is going to go out there and lose games for Alabama? Nope, a great QB does not mean guaranteed undefeated either. Look at Alabama in 2013, great team, great quarterback, couldn't get a yard on the ground when they absolutely had to have it. There's just more to the game than saying oh we have a great QB, we can't lose!
Not all INTs are created the same. You really have to look at the next series or two after an INT to figure out its impact.
For example, Tua threw 2 INTs last year.
The first one was a 90+ yard pick six against Tennessee. It cost Bama between 10-14 points. Very costly.
The second was picked off in the title game. On the next play Bama picked off UGA. It didn't cost Bama any points. In fact, we ended up with *better* field position after Raekwon Davis picked off Fromm. I wouldn't call that a positive INT, but it certainly wasn't as bad as the Tennessee pick.
Sometimes a long pass that's picked off on 3rd down is effectively a punt. Sometimes a pass is tipped by the WR and picked off.
You really have to look at each interception as a unique play.
For example, Tua threw 2 INTs last year.
The first one was a 90+ yard pick six against Tennessee. It cost Bama between 10-14 points. Very costly.
The second was picked off in the title game. On the next play Bama picked off UGA. It didn't cost Bama any points. In fact, we ended up with *better* field position after Raekwon Davis picked off Fromm. I wouldn't call that a positive INT, but it certainly wasn't as bad as the Tennessee pick.
Sometimes a long pass that's picked off on 3rd down is effectively a punt. Sometimes a pass is tipped by the WR and picked off.
You really have to look at each interception as a unique play.
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