The Lady Lex has been found in the Coral Sea

Tidewater

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your post reminded me of this, i guess it is somewhat related.

That is probably exactly what Clausewitz had in mind when he was thinking about culmination.
The Prussians had signed a treaty to lend Napoleon troops for the invasion of Russia. Clausewitz told the king not to do it, that the invasion of Russia was going to end badly, but the king did it anyway, so Clausewitz resigned from the Prussian army and took a job with the Russians, something for which the king never forgave Clausewitz.
 

gman4tide

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Such great knowledge and information in this thread! A question I've always had (and really had no where to ask) is, why did the USA not utilize carriers in the atlantic theater during ww2? Very little to no mention of carrier activity? I understand it wasn't island hopping and ground based airfields were utilized, but it seems the Baltic, Mediterranean and Red seas could have been utilized with carrier based air?
 

Tidewater

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Such great knowledge and information in this thread! A question I've always had (and really had no where to ask) is, why did the USA not utilize carriers in the atlantic theater during ww2? Very little to no mention of carrier activity? I understand it wasn't island hopping and ground based airfields were utilized, but it seems the Baltic, Mediterranean and Red seas could have been utilized with carrier based air?
The aircraft carrier USS Ranger was used in support of the landing in north Africa. The converted oil tankers Chenango, Santee, Sangamon, and Suwanee also provided air support. Not great aircraft carriers, but adequate to the task.

Once the Allies were ashore in Morocco & Algeria, the Allies had all the land bases they would ever need for ops in Tunisia, Sicily, Italy, and Normandy. Land-based aircraft are always better than carrier based because they can take off heavier, carry more fuel or bombs and you cannot sink Britain.
On the other hand, the HMS Ark Royal ferried airplanes to Malta in November 1941 and got a torpedo amidships for her troubles.
 
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Displaced Bama Fan

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Such great knowledge and information in this thread! A question I've always had (and really had no where to ask) is, why did the USA not utilize carriers in the atlantic theater during ww2? Very little to no mention of carrier activity? I understand it wasn't island hopping and ground based airfields were utilized, but it seems the Baltic, Mediterranean and Red seas could have been utilized with carrier based air?
My personal guess, is that the Germans focused on battleships/cruisers and once they lost the Bismark and Tirpitz, they conceded the surface fleet and focused on disrupting shipping via subs(In the North Atlantic anyway). As a result, we focused our efforts on destroyers and destroyer escorts hunting and destroying subs. I would surmise as well, that the island hopping campaign in the Pacific required significant air cover that couldn't be provided without carriers. However, the European theater, we utilized British bases, and as we moved inland, utilized land bases in France as well.
 

UAH

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Such great knowledge and information in this thread! A question I've always had (and really had no where to ask) is, why did the USA not utilize carriers in the atlantic theater during ww2? Very little to no mention of carrier activity? I understand it wasn't island hopping and ground based airfields were utilized, but it seems the Baltic, Mediterranean and Red seas could have been utilized with carrier based air?
It is a good question. My response would be to look at the expanse of the Pacific making it of necessity a naval war. Ultimately the US Navy had been drug kicking and screaming into modern naval war with the aircraft carriers mobile ability to project power over a broad ocean. Ultimately the Navy and Marines adapted a much more modern approach to warfare with the use of carriers to provide close air support of troops on the ground.

In Europe, England and other locations in the Mediterranean existed in effect as land based carriers to enable access to most significant targets of the war. This causes me to think of the need to attack the oil fields in Ploiesti, Romania which forced B-24s to fly from England and continue on to Libya (I believe) for refueling since Ploiesti was beyond the point of no return.

We also should consider the great challenge of dealing with the German U Boat threat across the Atlantic and Mediterranean.

Europe was an Army war and as I have written earlier the US and British for that matter had much to learn in terms of modern mobile warfare featuring close air support.

Then again I have to admit that the war to effectively invade the European continent was much more of a set piece battle than was the island hopping nature of the Pacific war.
 
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UAH

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One added thought about the war in the Pacific was the success of US code breakers to break the Japanese Naval Code and intercept the Japanese plan to attack Midway Island. Without knowledge of Japanese plans the US carrier group could not have staged off of Midway and ultimately would not have destroyed such a large portion of the entire Japanese carrier force.
 

Tidewater

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One added thought about the war in the Pacific was the success of US code breakers to break the Japanese Naval Code and intercept the Japanese plan to attack Midway Island. Without knowledge of Japanese plans the US carrier group could not have staged off of Midway and ultimately would not have destroyed such a large portion of the entire Japanese carrier force.
Another amazing thing about Coral Sea was that USS Yorktown was badly damaged (Japanese believed they had sunk her). She limped back to Pearl Harbor. Navy engineers believed she would need two weeks for repairs, but she was repaired and back out to sea in 72 hours to take part in the battle of Midway.
 

UAH

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Another amazing thing about Coral Sea was that USS Yorktown was badly damaged (Japanese believed they had sunk her). She limped back to Pearl Harbor. Navy engineers believed she would need two weeks for repairs, but she was repaired and back out to sea in 72 hours to take part in the battle of Midway.
It is always interesting to see how great battles seem to hinge on a miscalculation that allows an inferior foe, in this case the US Navy, to prevail. It seems to repeat itself through history.

To this point the Japanese had their way completely throughout the Pacific and undoubtedly their hubris did not allow them to consider that their attack of Midway could be known beforehand.

Their singular focus of attacking the US Army based at Midway left their carrier task force undefended from potential air attack from US carrier forces. By not putting air cover up over their task force they left themselves open to attack from Navy dive bombers screaming in from 10,000 feet. Within a few minutes the naval war in the Pacific was essentially won when they Japanese failed to consider the possibility of attack coming from the US fleet.
 

Tidewater

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It is always interesting to see how great battles seem to hinge on a miscalculation that allows an inferior foe, in this case the US Navy, to prevail. It seems to repeat itself through history.

To this point the Japanese had their way completely throughout the Pacific and undoubtedly their hubris did not allow them to consider that their attack of Midway could be known beforehand.

Their singular focus of attacking the US Army based at Midway left their carrier task force undefended from potential air attack from US carrier forces. By not putting air cover up over their task force they left themselves open to attack from Navy dive bombers screaming in from 10,000 feet. Within a few minutes the naval war in the Pacific was essentially won when they Japanese failed to consider the possibility of attack coming from the US fleet.
There is a book by Craig Symonds on Midway. Symonds disputes the "U.S. got lucky" thesis. I'm not so sure.
The U.S. figuring out that Midway was the target was not luck. It was darn good intelligence work. Based on intercepted/decoded Japanese messages, the Japanese were talking about attacking Target X. The Naval Intel officer sent a cable to Midway directing them to broadcast in the clear that their water evaporator was on the fritz. Sure enough, the Japanese sent a coded message that Target X had a problem with its water evaporator, so they knew Midway was the target, and they knew within a day or two when. That was not luck. Fixing USS Yorktown in record time was not luck. It was hard work.
On the other hand, the Japanese had assigned search sectors to cruiser-based catapult plane. The U.S. fleet was in the sector to be searched by IJN Tone and IJN Tone's catapult broke, delaying the discovery of the U.S. fleet. That was pure luck.
The Japanese did have a substantial Combat Air Patrol (CAP) over their fleet, but Torpedo Squadron 8 from USS Hornet attacked the Japanese carriers, the entire CAP swooped down and shot every plane of Torpedo 8 down. Just then, the dive bombers (VB-6, VS-6 and VB-3 from USS Yorktown and USS Enterprise attacked the Japanese fleet. If the torpedo squadron had not attacked first, the CAP would have given the dive-bombers trouble, but because VT-8 happened to attack first, the Japanese CAP were all at sea level when the dive-bombers attacked. That was just really good luck.
Maybe Symonds is half right.
 

tidegrandpa

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The aircraft carrier USS Ranger was used in support of the landing in north Africa. The converted oil tankers Chenango, Santee, Sangamon, and Suwanee also provided air support. Not great aircraft carriers, but adequate to the task.

Once the Allies were ashore in Morocco & Algeria, the Allies had all the land bases they would ever need for ops in Tunisia, Sicily, Italy, and Normandy. Land-based aircraft are always better than carrier based because they can take off heavier, carry more fuel or bombs and you cannot sink Britain.
On the other hand, the HMS Ark Royal ferried airplanes to Malta in November 1941 and got a torpedo amidships for her troubles.
My dad narrowly missed being eliminated at Midway as part of his B-26 Marauder group.
They sent his squadron over to fight but a week before, he fell off the back of an aircraft tug at Jackson Miss and stayed in a coma for 11 days.
They even flew his mom down from Pa to be with chaplain for his last rites.
The entire 26 squadron was lost at Midway.

12th day woke up, unexplained.
His new group eventually ferried their own B26’s
from Tampa Bay to Earles Colne airfield NE of London, took them 6 weeks but it beat being a sitting duck on a carrier.


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TIDE-HSV

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My dad narrowly missed being eliminated at Midway as part of his B-26 Marauder group.
They sent his squadron over to fight but a week before, he fell off the back of an aircraft tug at Jackson Miss and stayed in a coma for 11 days.
They even flew his mom down from Pa to be with chaplain for his last rites.
The entire 26 squadron was lost at Midway.

12th day woke up, unexplained.
His new group eventually ferried their own B26’s
from Tampa Bay to Earles Colne airfield NE of London, took them 6 weeks but it beat being a sitting duck on a carrier.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What route did they take to do that? One of my brothers flew over to be with the 8th ** in SE England. That was through Gander...
 

TIDE-HSV

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Southern, Puerto Rico, Guyana, Brazil, Ascension, Liberia, Morocco, over Gibralter.


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I've posted it before, but they issued my brother and his crew 1911s without comment upon departure and took them up in Northern Ireland. All knew that the issue was for the quick way out, if you were shot down in the northern Atlantic...
 

Bazza

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Naval Battle of Guadalcanal


On 8 November, Juneau departed Nouméa, New Caledonia as a unit of TF 67 under the command of Rear Admiral Richmond K. Turner to escort reinforcements to Guadalcanal. The force arrived there early morning on 12 November, and Juneau took up her station in the protective screen around the transports and cargo vessels. Unloading proceeded unmolested until 1405, when 30 Japanese planes attacked the alerted United States group. The AA fire was effective, and Juneau alone accounted for six enemy torpedo bombers shot down. The few remaining Japanese planes were in turn attacked by American fighters; only one bomber escaped. Later in the day, an American attack group of cruisers and destroyers cleared Guadalcanal on reports that a large enemy surface force was headed for the island. At 0148 on 13 November, Rear Admiral Daniel J. Callaghan's relatively small Landing Support Group engaged the enemy.[SUP][4][/SUP] The Japanese force consisted of two battleships, one light cruiser, and nine destroyers.

Because of bad weather and confused communications, the battle occurred in near pitch darkness and at almost point-blank range as the ships of the two sides became intermingled. During the melee, Juneau was struck on the port side by a torpedo launched by Japanese destroyer Amatsukaze,[SUP][6][/SUP] causing a severe list, and necessitating withdrawal. Before noon on 13 November, Juneau, along with two other cruisers damaged in the battle — Helena and San Francisco — headed toward Espiritu Santo for repairs. Juneau was steaming on one screw, keeping station 800 yd (730 m) off the starboard quarter of the likewise severely damaged San Francisco. She was down 12 ft (4 m) by the bow, but able to maintain 13 kn (15 mph, 24 km/h).
A few minutes after 1100, two torpedoes were launched from Japanese submarine I-26.[SUP][4][/SUP] These were intended for San Francisco, but both passed ahead of her. One struck Juneau in the same place that had been hit during the battle. There was a great explosion; Juneau broke in two and disappeared in just 20 seconds.[SUP][4][/SUP] Fearing more attacks from I-26, and wrongly assuming from the massive explosion that there were no survivors, Helena and San Francisco departed without attempting to rescue any survivors. In fact, more than 100 sailors had survived the sinking of Juneau. They were left to fend for themselves in the open ocean for eight days before rescue aircraft belatedly arrived. While awaiting rescue, all but 10 died from the elements and shark attacks, including the five Sullivan brothers. Two of the brothers apparently survived the sinking, only to die in the water; two presumably went down with the ship. Some reports indicate the fifth brother also survived the sinking, but disappeared during the first night when he left the raft and got into the water.[SUP][7][/SUP] On 20 November 1942, USS Ballard recovered two of the ten survivors. They were found in separate rafts around five miles apart.[SUP][8][/SUP][SUP][9][/SUP] One of the survivors recovered by Ballard stated he had been with one of the Sullivan brothers for several days after the sinking.[SUP][10][/SUP]


RIP to those brave sailors.....
 

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