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  1. #222
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    Re: What ex-college football coach is next to join Alliance of American Football Leag

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    Yes a side show freak draws a crowd for a small amount of time, but once everyone has seen it wasn’t all it was cracked up to be they sit a home.

    Point is after everyone sees Tebow is the 5th best QB in the AAF they will stop coming and buying jerseys. My bigger point is a guy like Tim Tebow couldn’t save the league even if he honored a 3 year deal. People won’t follow a guy that doesn’t light up a scoreboard even if he is a great celebrity athlete.

    So no I’m not overlooking anything about Tebow. He would be a single season marketing success that blows away as quick as his starting football career did in the NFL. Year 2 and 3 would be “ Is Tebow even better that Christian Hackenburg?” Instead of “Yayy Tebow”. It would take someone who was actually good professionally at a sport to single handily carry a league not someone who isn’t.
    You could not be more wrong about Tim Tebow. People don't come to see him because he is a great athlete as much as because of his image. Tim is the All American boy. The guy has charisma by the truck load like Jordan, just in a different way.

  2. #223
    BamaNation All-American ReturnToGlory's Avatar
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    Re: What ex-college football coach is next to join Alliance of American Football Leag

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    Yeah and thatís the point. Once they see why he isnít in the NFL the league would go back to status quo. Itís like Michael Jordan going to the Barons, yeah it got a weekend or two of good attendances but once you saw why he wasnít on the White Sox you really saw the Barons attendance going back to normal.

    The only player I can see that totally changes the league who isnít in the NFL now is Kapernick. Thatís because he is actually a great player with a name. But he isnít risking his body for 250k

    The AAF is going to either die or survive off the NFLís involvement. I just donít see them getting the consistent ratings and attendance for a spring league like the USFL. I could be wrong but I think only 3-4 cities are going to be super excited to go to games come Year 2-3. So I think this needs backing from the NFL.
    Some of the games are being seen on the NFL Network, so the NFL is associated with this league. Also, NFL teams are feeding some of its practice squad type players to the AAF as well. And former NFL executives, coaches, and players are trying to make this league a success. It basically is presenting itself to the public as an NFL developmental league. Whether that works or not, I don't know.

  3. #224
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 81usaf92's Avatar
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    Re: What ex-college football coach is next to join Alliance of American Football Leag

    Quote Originally Posted by ReturnToGlory View Post
    Some of the games are being seen on the NFL Network, so the NFL is associated with this league. Also, NFL teams are feeding some of its practice squad type players to the AAF as well. And former NFL executives, coaches, and players are trying to make this league a success. It basically is presenting itself to the public as an NFL developmental league. Whether that works or not, I don't know.
    Yes the NFL is "involved" more than what they are trying to say they are, but they aren't outright putting the stamp on yet. I wouldn't expect for Roger to put the stamp on until its a proven method or unless he is forced to.
    "Aut viam inveniam aut faciam."

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  4. #225
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 81usaf92's Avatar
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    Re: What ex-college football coach is next to join Alliance of American Football Leag

    Quote Originally Posted by CullmanTide View Post
    You could not be more wrong about Tim Tebow. .
    Tim is a below average professional quarterback that has a celebrity athlete appeal to him that people use for a short term cash grab. What's not to get? He is the equivalent to the WWE bringing in Brock Lesnar and Ronda Rousey in a June show. Sure its cool for a little while, and the WWE gets tons of views and makes tons of money for a month, but after the magic is over their profitability is based upon whether they tell a compelling story leading up to WrestleMania in March or April . The difference is this league needs a dedicated fan base or a dedicated partner not a celebrity cash grab that will just last a year.

    I think its well into the realm of possibilities that Birmingham, San Antonio, and Orlando fans stay excited because all three have had dedicated non NFL professional football fanbases through the years, but like all of these leagues you are judged by your bottom half attendances, and I don't have much faith in any of them (SLC, Atlanta, Memphis, and SD) after watching Memphis's 1st home game on a Saturday night last night. So I think the MGM deal will take them to Year 3, but after that this league probably needs some help from another source... NFL

    If Tim went to Orlando he isn't saving the league, or changing the league is my point. Its what the NFL does with it that will ultimately decide its fate.
    Last edited by 81usaf92; February 17th, 2019 at 08:52 AM.
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  5. #226
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bazza's Avatar
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    Re: What ex-college football coach is next to join Alliance of American Football Leag

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    Tim is a below average professional quarterback that has a celebrity athlete appeal to him that people use for a short term cash grab. What's not to get? -snip-
    I get that we are discussing AAF and as such you are focusing your comments on pro football, but IMHO, his college football legacy plus current professional baseball career should also be included in his appeal for sports fans.

  6. #227
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Crimson1967's Avatar
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    Re: What ex-college football coach is next to join Alliance of American Football Leag

    Quote Originally Posted by KrAzY3 View Post
    http://www.espn.com/watch/player?buc...42&id=26011797
    Tebow is an obvious fit for Orlando, and one thing he said was interesting, "it was an awesome offer". This makes it seem like they're not capped at the set amount for three years, because no way Tebow would view a 250K offer for three years as awesome.

    Also, the fact that Tebow and his level of popularity exists, speaks to the special advantageous role that college football plays. A minor league would be incapable of producing someone as popular as Tebow...
    Calling it awesome could have just him being polite. I donít see him trashing the league or its offer, even if it was way below what he wanted.

    I think Colin Kaepernick would hurt ticket sales, at least in Birmingham.


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  7. #228
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 81usaf92's Avatar
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    Re: What ex-college football coach is next to join Alliance of American Football Leag

    Quote Originally Posted by Bazza View Post
    I get that we are discussing AAF and as such you are focusing your comments on pro football, but IMHO, his college football legacy plus current professional baseball career should also be included in his appeal for sports fans.
    Let me put it this way. As you probably know, one of the least valuable, one of the least viewed, and one of the smallest NFL fanbases is the Jacksonville Jaguars. If Tim Tebow or Colin Kaepernick were to magically wind up on their roster then they would instantly become the most followed fanbase for 3/4ths of a season. But after that are you seriously going to argue that they going to continue to put more butts in seats, more eyes to tvs, and sell more jerseys than the Patriots, Steelers, Cowboys, and Packers? No eventually their appeal wears off once the product on the field is seen, Tebow more so than Kaepernick. Neither of them are a Brady, a P.Manning, a Rodgers, or a Brees in which they can bring in a consistent value over a long period of time just by the name on the back of their jersey. Football is more about the brand of the team more than the brand of the player, its not the NBA is my point. Seriously how many Jets, Eagles, and Patriots fans are still buying Tebow jerseys? and are Tebow jerseys selling well in Denver after the Manning era?

    MGM is more valuable to the AAF right now than Tebow is to the AAF right now
    "Aut viam inveniam aut faciam."

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  8. #229
    BamaNation Hall of Fame B1GTide's Avatar
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    Re: What ex-college football coach is next to join Alliance of American Football Leag

    Quote Originally Posted by Bazza View Post
    I get that we are discussing AAF and as such you are focusing your comments on pro football, but IMHO, his college football legacy plus current professional baseball career should also be included in his appeal for sports fans.
    Tebow is still one my my favorite college football players of all time. I am a fan of Tebow because he represented everything that was right about college sports when he was at Florida.

    IMO, his image was tarnished when he took the "I am an NFL QB" stance, even in the face of clear evidence to the contrary. But he still does an amazing amount of work in support of those less fortunate than himself, and his legacy at Florida is the thing that allows that. Playing in the AAF would not help his legacy, or his more important work. Playing in MLB might, so I hope that he keeps trying.

    IMO, he is much like Brodie Croyle, but his greater legacy allows him to raise more money and reach more people.

  9. #230
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bazza's Avatar
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    Re: What ex-college football coach is next to join Alliance of American Football Leag

    Quote Originally Posted by B1GTide View Post
    -snip- when he took the "I am an NFL QB" stance, even in the face of clear evidence to the contrary. -snip-
    I don't understand this part of your post.

    Won a Heisman as QB and wanted to play in the NFL.

    You're saying that was something he shouldn't have done?

    His personality is that of someone who refuses to give up or quit.

    I really admire that about him.

    Not getting into a debate about his ability to play in the NFL.

  10. #231
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    Re: What ex-college football coach is next to join Alliance of American Football Leag

    Quote Originally Posted by Bazza View Post
    I don't understand this part of your post.

    Won a Heisman as QB and wanted to play in the NFL.

    You're saying that was something he shouldn't have done?

    His personality is that of someone who refuses to give up or quit.

    I really admire that about him.

    Not getting into a debate about his ability to play in the NFL.
    No, he should have attempted to play QB. No one faults him for that - no one. People, myself included, fault him for not accepting the fact that he was not an NFL QB at any point, even when the evidence was clear. I don't expect him to play a position that he does not wish to play - never did. But I wanted a little more honesty from him about where he was as a player in the NFL. We never got that. He showed us that he was not above showing a little selfish pride. That is what tarnished his reputation, IMO - his pride.

    Spurrier saw that he couldn't cut it in the NFL, admitted as much and even gave the money back when it became apparent. Tebow probably still has not admitted to himself that he just wasn't good enough.

  11. #232
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 81usaf92's Avatar
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    Re: What ex-college football coach is next to join Alliance of American Football Leag

    Quote Originally Posted by Bazza View Post
    I don't understand this part of your post.

    Won a Heisman as QB and wanted to play in the NFL.

    You're saying that was something he shouldn't have done?

    His personality is that of someone who refuses to give up or quit.

    I really admire that about him.

    Not getting into a debate about his ability to play in the NFL.
    It was clear he wasn't an NFL qb, and he just wouldn't admit it. He really lucked out and played a banged up Steelers team that was without its best DB because playing at Mile High Stadium affected his sickle cell condition.

    He went to the Patriots expecting to be Brady's heir when two things were abundantly clear from the time he got to Boston 1) He wasn't going to beat out Ryan Mallet and 2) the Patriots's interest in him was to fill the void of Aaron Hernandez at TE. He was hell bent on being an NFL qb, and Belichick and everyone in the organization tried to talk him into considering playing TE and extending his NFL career, but he wouldn't have it so Belichick kicked him to the curb.

    FWIW Belichick has turned Julian Edelman into one of the best wrs in the game, and Edelman was a qb in college.
    Last edited by 81usaf92; February 17th, 2019 at 10:46 AM.
    "Aut viam inveniam aut faciam."

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  12. #233
    BamaNation Hall of Fame KrAzY3's Avatar
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    Re: What ex-college football coach is next to join Alliance of American Football Leag

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    So no I’m not overlooking anything about Tebow. He would be a single season marketing success that blows away as quick as his starting football career did in the NFL. Year 2 and 3 would be “ Is Tebow even better that Christian Hackenburg?” Instead of “Yayy Tebow”. It would take someone who was actually good professionally at a sport to single handily carry a league not someone who isn’t.
    I do agree that, well almost any promotional type move would not reap the same rewards long term, and that a controversial figure could backfire. Tebow of course isn't controversial though.

    The issue though is that the Alliance already has problems, which is predictable but still ominous. As I said earlier, their first game was a 2 rating, which was surprisingly good (nowhere near the splash the XFL landed with, which was a 10 but still hold their own good). But that immediately sunk to a .4 on cable, which isn't good at all. Then there's this:
    https://www.nfldraftdiamonds.com/201...-attendance-3/

    Someone mentioned atmosphere here, and it matters. For a minor league offering, you need to have people engaged. If you put on a game, and no one shows up, it will kill enthusiasm and interest. Even if you have outside sources of revenue, people aren't going to look at an empty stadium and go ok, let's throw more money at this. It's bad news.

    Even in Birmingham, the attendance dropped: https://www.nfldraftdiamonds.com/201...-attendance-2/

    Now, the article I just linked to said attendance went up right? Problem is from what I understand they had a ticket scanning issue and they started letting people in without scanning them in the first game, so there was actually a noticeable drop in attendance from game 1 to 2. I could get into the reasons why minor league football in America is in a bad spot, but without the smaller venues that indoor football plays in, the sub 20K football crowds look really small. The only places to really sustain 20K+ attendance have been outside the US (CFL and NFL Europe), where it isn't a third best football offering (and they play in smaller venues).

    So, they need to come up with something, what ever their revenue stream, backed by the NFL or not, they'll have trouble surviving a lack of an audience.
    Last edited by KrAzY3; February 17th, 2019 at 01:39 PM.
    Apologies if I said anything that could be construed as a personal insult.
    "Everybody that chooses to go to the game should stay there and support the team for the game." - Nick Saban

  13. #234
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 81usaf92's Avatar
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    Re: What ex-college football coach is next to join Alliance of American Football Leag

    Quote Originally Posted by KrAzY3 View Post

    The issue though is that the Alliance already has problems, which is predictable but still ominous. As I said earlier, their first game was a 2 rating, which was surprisingly good (nowhere near the splash the XFL landed with, which was a 10 but still hold their own good). But that immediately sunk to a .4 on cable, which isn't good at all. Then there's this:
    https://www.nfldraftdiamonds.com/201...-attendance-3/

    .
    Vince McMahon is a hell of a promoter, but isn't really great at damage control. You can see this with the WWE. His highest ratings are around April (WM) and drop the next month until he has that "surprise return" of a legendary wrestler. I think the AAF and XFL would do well to try to merge by 2021 at the latest because Vince is a valuable asset to have.


    Quote Originally Posted by KrAzY3 View Post


    Someone mentioned atmosphere here, and it matters. For a minor league offering, you need to have people engaged. If you put on a game, and no one shows up, it will kill enthusiasm and interest. Even if you have outside sources of revenue, people aren't going to look at an empty stadium and go ok, let's throw more money at this. It's bad news.

    Even in Birmingham, the attendance dropped: https://www.nfldraftdiamonds.com/201...-attendance-2/

    Now, the article I just linked to said attendance went up right? Problem is from what I understand they had a ticket scanning issue and they started letting people in without scanning them in the first game, so there was actually a noticeable drop in attendance from game 1 to 2. I could get into the reasons why minor league football in America is in a bad spot, but without the smaller venues that indoor football plays in, the sub 20K football crowds look really small. The only places to really sustain 20K+ attendance have been outside the US (CFL and NFL Europe), where it isn't a third best football offering (and they play in smaller venues).

    .
    I was there yesterday and it looked to be over 20k by a few thousand by halftime. I really think they are counting kickoff attendance because I even asked a few security guards and they said it was nearing a really great UAB (I know you love this) crowd.

    But I suspect Bham, San Antonio, and Orlando will probably generate a healthy and committed attendance as long as the product is good because all three are hungry for a professional football team. the other 5 are going to be the issues

    Quote Originally Posted by KrAzY3 View Post



    So, they need to come up with something, what ever their revenue stream, backed by the NFL or not, they'll have trouble surviving a lack of an audience.
    Yes but having the NFL support would really give the league a chance to grow. As it is now, MGM is the only reason to be optimistic of it surviving 3 years.
    "Aut viam inveniam aut faciam."

    Hannibal

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