North Korea willing to accept 'complete denuclearization' without conditions

Re: North Korea willing to accept 'complete denuclearization' without conditions, Moo

Cautiously optimistic.
Somehow, other countries propose to do something in their own interest, but only if the U.S. pays for some reason. If de-nuclearization happens without the U.S. footing the bill somehow, I'll be quite pleased, because I think it is in North Korea's best interest.

Re: North Korea willing to accept 'complete denuclearization' without conditions, Moo

Tidewater said:

Cautiously optimistic.
Somehow, other countries propose to do something in their own interest, but only if the U.S. pays for some reason. If de-nuclearization happens without the U.S. footing the bill somehow, I'll be quite pleased, because I think it is in North Korea's best interest.

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Package deal - Peace treaty, removal of sanctions, draw down of US troops, dismantling of nuke and ICBM program WITH VERIFICATION. Everybody wins.

FWIW, I hear that Kim's nuke test site actually collapsed recently and is not even usable at this time.

Re: North Korea willing to accept 'complete denuclearization' without conditions, Moo

Bamaro said:

Package deal - Peace treaty, removal of sanctions, draw down of US troops, dismantling of nuke and ICBM program WITH VERIFICATION. Everybody wins.

FWIW, I hear that Kim's nuke test site actually collapsed recently and is not even usable at this time.

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Fingers crossed.

Re: North Korea willing to accept 'complete denuclearization' without conditions, Moo

Bamaro said:

Package deal - Peace treaty, removal of sanctions, draw down of US troops, dismantling of nuke and ICBM program WITH VERIFICATION. Everybody wins.

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Yeah. I could see that.

The sticky issue will be the nature of the North Korean regime and how they handle regime evolution, selection of leaders, etc. I suspect that there are elements of North Korean society that will not be happy with these developments and will not let their privileged positions come under attack.

Re: North Korea willing to accept 'complete denuclearization' without conditions, Moo

Tidewater said:

Yeah. I could see that.

The sticky issue will be the nature of the North Korean regime and how they handle regime evolution, selection of leaders, etc. I suspect that there are elements of North Korean society that will not be happy with these developments and will not let their privileged positions come under attack.

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I think that Kim could come out a winner to his people on this if he plays it right. Maybe its time that the leader of N K no longer needs a boogeyman man to hate upon to stay in power.

Re: North Korea willing to accept 'complete denuclearization' without conditions, Moo

Bamaro said:

I think that Kim could come out a winner to his people on this if he plays it right. Maybe its time that the leader of N K no longer needs a boogeyman man to hate upon to stay in power.

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I saw earlier that Kim was educated in, I believe, Switzerland. He had interest that any ordinary teenager would including basketball. He view of the world may be much more open than what his regime portrays.

It may be the case that when he went China recently he was given assurances that China would have his back against possible US aggression similar to our invasion of Iraq. While in China he could certainly see the benefits of modernizing his economy and becoming a trading partner with China.

One could see China encouraging modernization of NK's economy without enabling the South Korean economy to effectively gobble up NK.

They China have everything to gain by having peace on the Korean Peninsula. An effective buffer state to South Korea and a lower US presence on the Asian mainland.

One possible thing that Trump could do to halt progress would be to pull out of the Iran nuclear agreement. That would send a clear message to Kim that one needs a nuclear weapon to avoid getting pushed around by the Americans.

Re: North Korea willing to accept 'complete denuclearization' without conditions, Moo

I realize that with North Korea the world has a huge issue with trust, but it appears, at least early in this process, the leaders are making some headway. Does anyone think that Trump should butt out and let them settle this matter of denuclearization and unification? My fear is that his ego and his wanting to "make a great deal" and say "look what I did" could blow up this entire process. At this point I do not trust Kim Jon Ung or Trump.

Re: North Korea willing to accept 'complete denuclearization' without conditions, Moo

Re: North Korea willing to accept 'complete denuclearization' without conditions, Moo

I hope this is legit, but I feel a bit cautious.

Re: North Korea willing to accept 'complete denuclearization' without conditions, Moo

crimsonaudio said:

No idea, but I think it paints a picture of South Korean President Moon Jae-in as being a very clever politician.

I'm not unwilling to give Trump any credit, but I think Occam's razor points to Moon Jae-in.

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I think strict sanctions and pressure from the Chinese brought NK to the table.

I think the general train of thought was Sung was not going to make a deal after he won a country , and Il was too crazy to play politics with. I think many believed Un was probably the best chance because he was the most "progressive" out of the 3. But he started his sabre rattling and Obama just continued the long practice that his predecessors did of: "NK threats- negotiate- NK backs down- US sends fuel and food- NK runs out of fuel and food- repeat process over". Personally I think had Obama stood strong on sanctions and convinced the Chinese to help then this same outcome would happen but under better circumstances. I really think this is basically the same as Reagan forcing Gorby's hand. Carter could have done the same and had the same outcome.

So to a degree Trump deserves some credit for this, but lets not start lining him up for the Nobel Peace Prize for it.

Re: North Korea willing to accept 'complete denuclearization' without conditions, Moo

81usaf92 said:

So to a degree Trump deserves some credit for this, but lets not start lining him up for the Nobel Peace Prize for it.

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That would be funny to watch. I think CNN's collective heads would explode. (I say that as a guy who did not vote for Trump in 2016 and won't in 2020 if he runs).

Re: North Korea willing to accept 'complete denuclearization' without conditions, Moo

To paraphrase Reagan, 'Dont trust and verify'

Re: North Korea willing to accept 'complete denuclearization' without conditions, Moo

81usaf92 said:

So to a degree Trump deserves some credit for this, but lets not start lining him up for the Nobel Peace Prize for it.

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So Obama won it for "extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples" and yet, if Trump's "craziness" brought "rocketman" to the peace table and the Koreas re-unify you think he should be left out? I think it should be shared between all four leaders personally, if in fact, the two countries get to that point. I would think Jong-un, Xi, Trump & Jae-in should all be in on it.

Regardless, it was pretty danged impressive the two leaders met and talked. You have to start somewhere. Let's hope this leads to a thawing of relations especially as it concerns the North Korean people and stability in the region.

Displaced Bama Fan said:

Regardless, it was pretty danged impressive the two leaders met and talked. You have to start somewhere. Let's hope this leads to a thawing of relations especially as it concerns the North Korean people and stability in the region.

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In all seriousness, I could see the Nobel Committee awarding a split prize to those two if the process continues and really does achieve peace in the region.

Still, I'm really curious how the head muckety-mucks in Pyongyang and the North Korean population in general are going to take this, after decades of being told that the world is evil and about to invade. Now, Kim wants to make nice. It wouldn't surprise me if someone did something crazy to stop the process.

Re: North Korea willing to accept 'complete denuclearization' without conditions, Moo

CullmanTide said:

Actually Trump may be the reason for it. They are as aware as we are how unstable he is.

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You may have something there.

Years ago - in the aftermath of the Tennessee/LSU game where the Vols won and then lost thanks to 13 men on the field - Clay Travis, the Vol blogger,
wrote a piece after the game that was pretty funny and he basically said that the problem with facing Miles is that it's a whole lot harder to know how
to RESPOND to chaos than to create it. He pointed out that Miles creates chaos and stands there completely unaware that chaos has occurred. But he
went further - pointing out the problems the US has in (wait for it) responding to North Korea......that they CREATE chaos and we try to cope with it.

Apparently, we found the cure....have our own chaotic leader who is as much a nutbag as theirs and who doesn't respond like a typical Western European
white dude. This is like a few games of "Dungeons and Dragons" I played forever ago.

Re: North Korea willing to accept 'complete denuclearization' without conditions, Moo

81usaf92 said:

I think strict sanctions and pressure from the Chinese brought NK to the table.

I think the general train of thought was Sung was not going to make a deal after he won a country , and Il was too crazy to play politics with. I think many believed Un was probably the best chance because he was the most "progressive" out of the 3. But he started his sabre rattling and Obama just continued the long practice that his predecessors did of: "NK threats- negotiate- NK backs down- US sends fuel and food- NK runs out of fuel and food- repeat process over". Personally I think had Obama stood strong on sanctions and convinced the Chinese to help then this same outcome would happen but under better circumstances. I really think this is basically the same as Reagan forcing Gorby's hand. Carter could have done the same and had the same outcome.

So to a degree Trump deserves some credit for this, but lets not start lining him up for the Nobel Peace Prize for it.

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Well, I think the Nobel Peace Prize is a joke anyway....Barack Obama got one for literally doing nothing.

Hell, I've done LESS than nothing in politics so where is mine?

Re: North Korea willing to accept 'complete denuclearization' without conditions, Moo

Tidewater said:

That would be funny to watch. I think CNN's collective heads would explode. (I say that as a guy who did not vote for Trump in 2016 and won't in 2020 if he runs).

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Wait....why would the collective heads of an OBJECTIVE news organization explode.....??????

Re: North Korea willing to accept 'complete denuclearization' without conditions, Moo

selmaborntidefan said:

Well, I think the Nobel Peace Prize is a joke anyway....Barack Obama got one for literally doing nothing.

Hell, I've done LESS than nothing in politics so where is mine?

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Along with the Heisman Trophy!!