Coach Moore wanted Richard Williamson, others wanted Shula. Though it would not have excited anyone, RW would have been a far better choice. Neither Shula nor Croom had any business being the HC at Bama. Bama had other options also - it was not as dire as some claim.
Link: Jeremy Pruitt's reality at Tin-er-C. He criticizes both fans and players.
- Thread starter Bamabuzzard
- Start date
Would Richardson have been a "Far" better choice? Maybe - but we'll never really know.
"FWIW", at the time the decision had to be made it was already May of 2003 - When ALL college teams had finish spring workouts and NFL teams were, what? 6-8 weeks from starting summer camps? The "Universe" of possible candidates at that time could, by definition, ONLY include position coaches (Shula, Richardson, and Croom had all been fired from NFL OC jobs and were working as NFL Position coaches), RETIRED coaches, OR current NFL/NCAA Coordinators and HC's whose departure would have devastated any team they left - in other words, we'd have been hiring a "straight up" QUITTER who screwed his team by leaving.
In May, 2003, Richardson's record as a HC in the NFL is 4-15. In college, 32-34. (of course, that was at Memphis, were "no one can win" - except the current coach who is 18-8 in two seasons.)
As an NFL Coordinator 8-24 (only 2 years and went back to a position coach) , as as a college OC (72-74 at Arkansas) 17-14-2, which got him the Memphis State job.
Not that Mike Shula's resume was much to speak of, at least for a prospective College HC. In May 2003, Shula had Zero years college coaching experience, and Zero years HC experience at any level, and he had gone 35-29 (2-2 in Playoff appearances) in 4 years as an NFL OC, before he went back to a position coach job.
Richardson was well regarded by some who had played at Alabama in the 1960's, but had a uniformly mediocre career since college; Shula was a beloved former player (and "hero") from the 1980's with few personal accomplishments, but a "Golden" pedigree.
Respectfully, to look at EITHER of them (or really ANY Realistic prospective coach) say ANY possible candidate at that time was "Far" better than any other is purely a matter of opinion, and utterly UN-provable by any objective measure.
FWIW, looking back in hindsight, "IMO" UA probably would have been MUCH better served at the time to simply name Carl Torbush as "Interim" coach, and spend the next 7 months looking for a permanent replacement. Torbush wasn't "HC Material", but he had HC experience, AND, much more importantly, knew the players, knew the Game, knew the SEC, and knew the recruiting situation. Had UA gone that route, "Worst case", IMO, Torbush probably wins 5-7 games, probably at least identifies some legitimate recruiting targets, and we probably hire a decent replacement in December 2003.
But the flip side?
Had we hired a competent coach in December 2003, We probably aren't looking to replace THAT coach in December 2006. So maybe it's all just as well, huh?
Roll Tide!
Shula was criticized for keeping the ice cream machine more full than the weight room bench bars and squat racks. It had nothing to do with him not winning NC's. It was the obvious lackadaisical approach to putting a Division I football team on the field that could physically make it through four quarters.
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Would Richardson have been a "Far" better choice? Maybe - but we'll never really know.
"FWIW", at the time the decision had to be made it was already May of 2003 - When ALL college teams had finish spring workouts and NFL teams were, what? 6-8 weeks from starting summer camps? The "Universe" of possible candidates at that time could, by definition, ONLY include position coaches (Shula, Richardson, and Croom had all been fired from NFL OC jobs and were working as NFL Position coaches), RETIRED coaches, OR current NFL/NCAA Coordinators and HC's whose departure would have devastated any team they left - in other words, we'd have been hiring a "straight up" QUITTER who screwed his team by leaving.
In May, 2003, Richardson's record as a HC in the NFL is 4-15. In college, 32-34. (of course, that was at Memphis, were "no one can win" - except the current coach who is 18-8 in two seasons.)
As an NFL Coordinator 8-24 (only 2 years and went back to a position coach) , as as a college OC (72-74 at Arkansas) 17-14-2, which got him the Memphis State job.
Not that Mike Shula's resume was much to speak of, at least for a prospective College HC. In May 2003, Shula had Zero years college coaching experience, and Zero years HC experience at any level, and he had gone 35-29 (2-2 in Playoff appearances) in 4 years as an NFL OC, before he went back to a position coach job.
Richardson was well regarded by some who had played at Alabama in the 1960's, but had a uniformly mediocre career since college; Shula was a beloved former player (and "hero") from the 1980's with few personal accomplishments, but a "Golden" pedigree.
Respectfully, to look at EITHER of them (or really ANY Realistic prospective coach) say ANY possible candidate at that time was "Far" better than any other is purely a matter of opinion, and utterly UN-provable by any objective measure.
FWIW, looking back in hindsight, "IMO" UA probably would have been MUCH better served at the time to simply name Carl Torbush as "Interim" coach, and spend the next 7 months looking for a permanent replacement. Torbush wasn't "HC Material", but he had HC experience, AND, much more importantly, knew the players, knew the Game, knew the SEC, and knew the recruiting situation. Had UA gone that route, "Worst case", IMO, Torbush probably wins 5-7 games, probably at least identifies some legitimate recruiting targets, and we probably hire a decent replacement in December 2003.
But the flip side?
Had we hired a competent coach in December 2003, We probably aren't looking to replace THAT coach in December 2006. So maybe it's all just as well, huh?
Roll Tide!
- You are right that it turned out well.
- It's true that we do no know. I generally assume when looking into the future that only an opinion is being offered.
- Coach Moore, a very good judge of coaches, wanted Richard Williamson
- Shula was a good QB coach and decent OC, and to the consternation of most, I even thought he was a decent play caller, but he had no idea how to select and manage men. He had absolutely no business running any kind of operation. RW had success at the college level as a HC. RW was much tougher than Shula, who was very soft. Mike was a very nice man, but totally unsuited to be a HC, especially at Alabama.
- The thinking of Bama's "brain-trust" at the time was that Alabama needed loyalty to survive the upcoming effects of probation, thus a "Bama man". So, outsiders were not considered. Tom Coughlin publically expressed interest in the job either at this time or when Price was hired, idk. There were others. I.e., MS did not "rescue Bama at a time when no one else would take the job". That is a myth. Bama was low, but not that low.
- W/L record as a coordinator is meaningless in projecting one's HC potential.
- I posted at the time, on another board, that Bama would enter a "nuclear winter" from which it might never recover, if Carl Torbush became the HC .
Shock is closer to right. Vols will lose to Bama, Barn, and Georgia. 6 of the remaining 9 games are anybody’s guess. Florida, Missouri, USCe, Vandy, KY, and W Va will all be tough games for them to win. The only lay ups are Charlotte, UTEP, and East Tennessee State.
10-2 seems totally out of their range for the foreseeable future. With Bama and a reinvigorated Georgia on their schedule, there's two almost automatic losses right there. They've also been passed by South Carolina and probably will be passed (again) by Florida real soon. I'd say their ceiling is going to be around 8-4, and most years worse than that for quite some time. About on a par with Missouri and Kentucky.
"Not only are we installing an offense and a defense, but we're teaching them how to practice, teaching them how to compete, teaching them how to lift (weights). I could fill up a wall with things we're teaching them here."
Sounds like he's real impressed with the job Butch did in Knoxville, lol.
Sounds like he's real impressed with the job Butch did in Knoxville, lol.
Well, at least he doesn't have to teach them how to take showers. Dooley took care of that, didn't he?
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