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Do we feel better about the qb spot now, or worse?

BamaMoon

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crimsonaudio said:
Regardless as to what JH decides to do, transferring before the fall would be silly - not only because he loses the chance to play if there's an injury but also because he's on track to graduate this coming year, so he can stay with the team and gain all the knowledge, training, etc that's available to him - FOR FREE - then transfer an play immediately as a grad transfer. If he transfers over the summer, according to the rules, he sits a year...

Unless I'm missing something, the intelligent (read - not driven by emotion) choice is to stay at Bama through the 2018 season.

All of this assumes he's not the starter. Saban has made some interesting personnel choices over the years, so I'm not certain JH won't be the starter against UL.
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I think that's what is best for Jalen too. He graduates next Dec. He could transfer to the school of choice next January and go thru their spring ball and have 2 years to play for them IF he redshirts at Bama next year.

The details are in the "IF." Part of the loyalty CNS might have to Jalen is if he feels comfortable enough with Mac Jones as the #2, that he might allow Jalen to use his redshirt year and save himself sitting out after transfering. I kinda doubt this will happen, but it would be to Jalen's advantage if it did, assuming he accepts he's been passed up and will not play this fall as the starter.
 
D

DrollTide

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Strangely enough, I expect to see co-starters or something like it, one-third to two-thirds perhaps. Jalen can win any game easily enough, with the possible exception of the cream of the elite that reach the playoffs or the final where there have been struggles. He is really, really good, solid, reliable, against mid-range SEC teams and our OOC slate.

Jalen's throwing vision, or confidence or whatever is holding him back, may still improve during the season. I truly hope he stays, long enough for at least one more ring ;-)

I like what I saw with Mac. We would be better off if Jalen stays - but I feel better now than before the spring.
 
CrimsonForce

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crimsonaudio said:
Regardless as to what JH decides to do, transferring before the fall would be silly - not only because he loses the chance to play if there's an injury but also because he's on track to graduate this coming year, so he can stay with the team and gain all the knowledge, training, etc that's available to him - FOR FREE - then transfer an play immediately as a grad transfer. If he transfers over the summer, according to the rules, he sits a year...

Unless I'm missing something, the intelligent (read - not driven by emotion) choice is to stay at Bama through the 2018 season.

All of this assumes he's not the starter. Saban has made some interesting personnel choices over the years, so I'm not certain JH won't be the starter against UL.
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BamaMoon said:
I think that's what is best for Jalen too. He graduates next Dec. He could transfer to the school of choice next January and go thru their spring ball and have 2 years to play for them IF he redshirts at Bama next year.

The details are in the "IF." Part of the loyalty CNS might have to Jalen is if he feels comfortable enough with Mac Jones as the #2, that he might allow Jalen to use his redshirt year and save himself sitting out after transfering. I kinda doubt this will happen, but it would be to Jalen's advantage if it did, assuming he accepts he's been passed up and will not play this fall as the starter.
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This is exactly what I laid out as the best case scenario (after the comments from Mr. Hurts) for both Alabama and Jalen if all the egos involved can agree upon it. The opinion was met with harsh criticism but I don't see any other path that benefits both Alabama and Jalen..
 
RTR91

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crimsonaudio said:
Regardless as to what JH decides to do, transferring before the fall would be silly - not only because he loses the chance to play if there's an injury but also because he's on track to graduate this coming year, so he can stay with the team and gain all the knowledge, training, etc that's available to him - FOR FREE - then transfer an play immediately as a grad transfer. If he transfers over the summer, according to the rules, he sits a year...

Unless I'm missing something, the intelligent (read - not driven by emotion) choice is to stay at Bama through the 2018 season.

All of this assumes he's not the starter. Saban has made some interesting personnel choices over the years, so I'm not certain JH won't be the starter against UL.
Click to expand...
I can see how transferring before the season would be best for him. By leaving before the season, he sits out a year and uses his redshirt year. If he stays at Alabama and graduates, I'm not sure he can use that redshirt year at his next school. By taking the redshirt year at a new school, he is able to learn the new system. He doesn't have that luxury if he transfers in January.
CrimsonForce said:
This is exactly what I laid out as the best case scenario (after the comments from Mr. Hurts) for both Alabama and Jalen if all the egos involved can agree upon it. The opinion was met with harsh criticism but I don't see any other path that benefits both Alabama and Jalen..
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For Alabama, the best thing is for Jalen to stay. For Jalen, the best thing is debatable.
 
B1GTide

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If Jalen is going to transfer because he wants to start at QB and prepare for a possible NFL career at QB, he needs to do it ASAP. I am not sure how wasting a season of eligibility to play back-up QB helps him.

If he transfers at the end of the spring semester he has all summer to find a good fit for transfer. He then sits for the 2018 season, but practices with the team, coaches and playbook for an entire year before trying to start again. Once that happens, he still has 2 seasons of eligibility remaining. He could play 4 full seasons as a starting QB. If he finds that he hates his transfer school, he can transfer again as a graduate and not miss a season of eligibility. Really, every factor leans toward an immediate transfer.

IMO, the only reason that he should stay is if he just loves Alabama too much to leave, and is willing to take a seat because of that love.
 
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TitleWave

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B1GTide said:
If Jalen is going to transfer because he wants to start at QB and prepare for a possible NFL career at QB, he needs to do it ASAP. I am not sure how wasting a season of eligibility to play back-up QB helps him.

If he transfers at the end of the spring semester he has all summer to find a good fit for transfer. He then sits for the 2018 season, but practices with the team, coaches and playbook for an entire year before trying to start again. Once that happens, he still has 2 seasons of eligibility remaining. He could play 4 full seasons as a starting QB. If he finds that he hates his transfer school, he can transfer again as a graduate and not miss a season of eligibility. Really, every factor leans toward an immediate transfer.

IMO, the only reason that he should stay is if he just loves Alabama too much to leave, and is willing to take a seat because of that love.
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Given his obvious lack of development as a passer - and how his style essentially sabotages him every time he moves the pocket - where do you think there is a Power Five offense that could assimilate Jalen Hurts as a starting QB? Don't see it, just Do.Not.See.It - unless there's a school in transition with a new coach and no QB yet of his own, along with a wealth of running backs coming back in a year's time to complement/augment/color over Hurts' shortcomings as a passer. And even that would be dependent on his development as another school's practice team player for a year, and that program making a decision now to go with such an offense and sticking with it 16 months from now.
 
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TitleWave said:
Given his obvious lack of development as a passer - and how his style essentially sabotages him every time he moves the pocket - where do you think there is a Power Five offense that could assimilate Jalen Hurts as a starting QB? Don't see it, just Do.Not.See.It - unless there's a school in transition with a new coach and no QB yet of his own, along with a wealth of running backs coming back in a year's time to complement/augment/color over Hurts' shortcomings as a passer. And even that would be dependent on his development as another school's practice team player for a year, and that program making a decision now to go with such an offense and sticking with it 16 months from now.
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There are plenty of programs that run offenses more suited to Jalen's skill set. Both in the Power 5 and outside of it. I mean, Jalen just started 2 full seasons for the premier program in the country over the past decade. I'm pretty sure there are programs that would love him on their team.
 
B1GTide

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TitleWave said:
Given his obvious lack of development as a passer - and how his style essentially sabotages him every time he moves the pocket - where do you think there is a Power Five offense that could assimilate Jalen Hurts as a starting QB?
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A lot of coaches would take a chance on him. Every coach thinks that he can take someone else's failure and turn him into a success. They will believe that they can teach him. Maybe they can. If Jalen transfers, I will be pulling for him.
 
T

TitleWave

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RollTide_HTTR said:
There are plenty of programs that run offenses more suited to Jalen's skill set. Both in the Power 5 and outside of it. I mean, Jalen just started 2 full seasons for the premier program in the country over the past decade. I'm pretty sure there are programs that would love him on their team.
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True, though none of those programs could surround him with the kind of weapons provided him by "the premier program in the country over the past decade." But you're right, it might come down to a school "lov(ing) to have him" so as to win 7-8 games a year with his legs and leadership instead of 3-4 wins that preceded him at that school. And there is undeniable leadership with Hurts. But leadership doesn't translate to personal development in the physical sense that would get him into the NFL as a quarterback. He's not a failure as a college QB, he's just not an NFL prospect as a college QB. Ask another ex-college QB (but unsuited at the position for the next level), David Sills V of West Va., how it's likely going to work out for him with a change of positions.
 
TomFromBama

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TitleWave said:
​Saban may be thinking of the "Full Hurts" backfield - don't discount the possibility, with Mac Jones the true No. 2 QB.
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Honestly, that would be a near IDEAL situation, provided Jalen would accept a role in another position. Just imagine the world of possibilities it would open up for double passes, pass and pass back, and FAKES of all the above. Hurts on the perimeter, Tua fakes the screen to Jalen, and every eye on the defense looks AWAY from the RB's and all the other WR's.

It could be awesome.

But will we ever see it?
 
GP for Bama

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Jalen is lacking some in the passing game, but he is a giant threat to run the ball. Dual threat quarterbacks are hard to beat. Defenses have to play us a certain way when Jalen is in the game. We would certainly miss his scrambling ability if he were to transfer. Another strength of Jalen's is his ball security. Jalen was the 2016 SEC Offensive Player of the Year.
I'm just saying that I hope Jalen stays! He doesn't have Tua's passing ability , but he is a great ball player.
There are a lot of schools that would love to have Jalen on their team.
 
RTR2u

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crimsonaudio said:
Regardless as to what JH decides to do, transferring before the fall would be silly - not only because he loses the chance to play if there's an injury but also because he's on track to graduate this coming year, so he can stay with the team and gain all the knowledge, training, etc that's available to him - FOR FREE - then transfer an play immediately as a grad transfer. If he transfers over the summer, according to the rules, he sits a year...

Unless I'm missing something, the intelligent (read - not driven by emotion) choice is to stay at Bama through the 2018 season.

All of this assumes he's not the starter. Saban has made some interesting personnel choices over the years, so I'm not certain JH won't be the starter against UL.
Click to expand...

This is my thinking as well. Dad needs to sit back and think about this, and then just hush.
 
CraigD

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TitleWave said:
Given his obvious lack of development as a passer - and how his style essentially sabotages him every time he moves the pocket - where do you think there is a Power Five offense that could assimilate Jalen Hurts as a starting QB? Don't see it, just Do.Not.See.It
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I think this is where I am. I am just not certain there would be a line of programs formed trying to persuade Jalen to come play for them. I've seen people on here suggest an option school like GA Tech would be a good fit if he were to transfer, but I would contend that Jalen's not a fast-twitch guy. He's more of a strider when he runs... with only a little "wiggle". He runs very smoothly and is deceptively fast (and strong!), but I am not sure I think his style is one that would be as effective in an option offense as a more quick-twitch running QB would be. I think Jalen's strength as a runner comes in an offense where there is at least the threat of a pass - when a pass is expected. In those circumstances, when DBs are occupied and the defense is somewhat spread out and is anticipating the pass, he is a great runner. In an offense where everyone knows what's coming (as in an option offense) I'm not so sure his skillset translates all that well.
 
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gtgilbert

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Better - way better. knowing the very high likelihood of losing either hurts or Tua to transfer, we need to have a viable #2 and I think Jones proved that he can fill that role for us.
 
B1GTide

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gtgilbert said:
Better - way better. knowing the very high likelihood of losing either hurts or Tua to transfer, we need to have a viable #2 and I think Jones proved that he can fill that role for us.
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If Jalen transfers, this is true. How do you feel if Jalen stays? I love Jalen, but I think that everyone is hurt by him staying and playing.
 
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BamaHoosier

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The X-factor here is Tua's development. We know he has all the talent in the world, he's made that abundantly clear. The thing people seem to forget is that he's still very young and almost all young players eventually go through a slump. I'm not going to play the "what if" game, because for every negative scenario there's another positive scenario that could happen. Still, we only have a small sample size to judge him by. I'm all for Tua winning the starting job. In fact I personally think he will and I don't think he'll ever give it back. However, I'm also not going to worship an 18 year old as infallible when we've seen top talent underperform before. I feel like it's short-sighted to write-off Jalen as a lost cause when we don't know what Tua or anyone else is going to look like in September.

I would feel a lot better about the QB situation if I knew we were prepared for both best and worst case scenarios. We saw best case scenario in the final 30 minutes of the championship game last year. Worst case though is that Jalen is still on the sidelines ready to take the reigns if Tua gets injured or if he slumps hard enough. It's rare to have a backup QB who is a proven winner. Even if Jalen's not the playmaker we hoped he'd be, he's still be the best backup QB we'll ever have.

While our opinions means nothing to the young man, I can't see how it would be in his best interest to leave now. I selfishly hope he sticks it out and sees how the season shakes out.
 
T

TitleWave

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B1GTide said:
If Jalen transfers, this is true. Hoe do you feel if Jalen stays? I love Jalen, but I think that everyone is hurt by him staying and playing.
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"Hurts" his NFL chances or "Hurts" 'Bama? Somebody mentioned in the other Bama QB competition thread Aaron Rodgers as a paradigm changer for NFL development under Mike McCarthy's tutelage. Not so - some may recall Rodgers was projected as the No. 1 pick in the 2005 NFL draft before falling to the 24th selection where Green Bay grabbed him without a real need at QB since #4 (Brett Favre) was already the face of the franchise. The real paradigm changer was how poorly Brett Hundley, Rodgers' backup in Green Bay the last couple years as a 5th round "steal" by the Packers, played when called upon - totally unprepared from all indications to be an NFL quarterback. (Zero TDs in five or six Lambeau starts, QB rating in the 50s if that, and just flailingly and failingly inept in almost every aspect of NFL quarterback play.) The analogy might be Dan Enos doing for Hurts at this stage of his career (at this stage of his career at 'Bama) in one upcoming season what McCarthy couldn't do for Hundley in two years at the NFL level.
 
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G

gtgilbert

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B1GTide said:
If Jalen transfers, this is true. Hoe do you feel if Jalen stays? I love Jalen, but I think that everyone is hurt by him staying and playing.
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I'd not really thought of that as a possibility, but if he stays AND can be content to only play as a backup QB would, then that could be ok for the team, and I still think he might get a decent amount of development now that we have a dedicated QB coach so it could also help him as he makes himself ready for a transfer. I wouldn't want a dual QB system deployed where we ran different plays for different QBs though, so don't think that would be good for anyone involved either. All that said, it's a lot of hypothetical stuff in there so staying and playing is probably not ideal.
 
B1GTide

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TitleWave said:
"Hurts" his NFL chances or "Hurts" 'Bama?
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I hate to say it, but I don't think that Jalen is going to get enough attention from Enos to develop much beyond where he is today. I mean, if you were Enos, who would you focus on? The two talented passers or the runner who wishes that he was a passer?

I have worked in management most of my life. You cannot invest in everyone equally. You invest more heavily in the people who have the greatest talent. Maybe if Jalen worked with someone outside of Alabama during the summer? Has he been doing this already? If so, it hasn't helped. If not, why not?
 
BamaHoosier

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TitleWave said:
Given his obvious lack of development as a passer - and how his style essentially sabotages him every time he moves the pocket - where do you think there is a Power Five offense that could assimilate Jalen Hurts as a starting QB?

I've thought about this a bit. The obvious one that comes to mind is Ga Tech's spread offense. They need a QB tough enough to run 30 times a game and have them throw deep 10 times to loosen the defense. Jalen has a big arm and can throw it deep fairly well. I could see him being a fit there.

Another team I could see loving him is Louisville. When Lamar Jackson came on the scene, he was an athlete with a big arm who had no pocket presence and was viewed as inaccurate, sound familiar? With a couple of years of development, he's now a likely 1st round pick. L'Ville seems to have a knack for producing big talent from underachieving qb's. I think that'd be a great spot for him. With that said, no way we'd clear that transfer if he leaves this summer. Plus I think they already have their QB of the future so I don't know if they'd take him.
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