Why I (as an atheist) can be "turned off" or offended by people of Faith

Re: Why I (as an atheist) can be "turned off" or offended by people of Faith

selmaborntidefan said:

Just change the thread:
a) Why I (as a Christian) can be turned off by another faith AND
b) Tua is a Muslim



......and all of a sudden this whole thread would turn into how Islamophobic Christians are.

Funny how that works.

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Re: Why I (as an atheist) can be "turned off" or offended by people of Faith

I look at organized religion, especially larger churches, as a way to control the mind/masses. I'd rather be involved in a smaller church with more direct/community outreach to help the needy v. having tons of amenities.

Re: Why I (as an atheist) can be "turned off" or offended by people of Faith

Displaced Bama Fan said:

I look at organized religion, especially larger churches, as a way to control the mind/masses. I'd rather be involved in a smaller church with more direct/community outreach to help the needy v. having tons of amenities.

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Well, I go to a larger church and I will say that we partner with a lot of organizations and we don't put a pre-requisite on an organization being of a Christian nature. Our congregation made a decision to not do like a lot of other organizations and compete with others. We prefer to join in support and fill needs where we can in order to assist organizations in whatever manner they need (food, money, volunteering our time, etc). Our decision on this stems from two things: 1) when we as Christian organizations compete against each other it creates a negativity and hinders us from being able to help and 2) you have organizations out there who are already established and have really good relationships in their communities and in our eyes it is just simply better for us to assist and help where we can as opposed to creating division.
Now, my point is not that smaller churches aren't capable or that larger churches are just "in it for the money or control". My point is that we can all come together in spite of our semantical differences and make a difference in this world. My other point is that you can't judge a group by the size of the group. You have to step back and take a look at what that group as a whole does.
At the congregation I attend we don't pass offering plates and don't have sermons beating people over the head about "give, give, give". The pastor will say before many of his sermons that if there's anyone who just doesn't believe or have questions or whatever that we appreciate that and are not here to force/make/shame etc you into becoming a member/accepting GOD/Jesus. I don't even think we have an official membership or anything like that.

Now, to your point concerning "organized religion" I agree wholeheartedly. It really reminds me of the Pharesies (sp?) back in Jesus' day where they really just wanted control and as long as everything was status quo the leadership was happy. If you looked religious and acted religious in front of everyone you were ok no matter what you did in secret/private.
Too many of those who would call themselves Christian operate much the same way (not trying to judge, although I know it sounds like it) in respect to showing up on Sunday and acting one way and then Monday thru Saturday you'd never know they had ever heard of Jesus.
I know this kind of rambled but I hope it at least makes a little sense.

Re: Why I (as an atheist) can be "turned off" or offended by people of Faith

There is no not believing. You either believe science is right or there is a higher being. No one here believes nothingness. You could never understand nothingness especially if you had a conscious thought about which is right, science or creation, higher being. Consciousness is real or else we would not know it wasn't.

I look at folks who wear their religious beliefs on their sleeves as folks who have hope, and are not real sure what is and what is not. Just hope...and they are scared.

Re: Why I (as an atheist) can be "turned off" or offended by people of Faith

Several pages of discussion between believers of a higher power, and non believers, with a mix of “agnostic” who are riding the fence.

In the end there is only one thing for certain in life, and that is we will all die. The old saying the only two things certain is death and taxes is false, because I know several people that have never paid a dime(even sales tax because they’ve lived on the dole), but they most certainly will die!

Every one of us will eventually reach that point and it will be “game over” or we will either be blissfully happy or remorsefully regretful... depending on what is true or not. I prefer myself to believe in the Bible and believe in God and try to live as close to the teachings of the Bible as I can (and I am totally against all the “better than you” so called Christians running around pointing fingers....they ignore many parts of the Bible, and only quote the convenient parts that suit them) when I die if it is a laughable fallacy (as atheist think it is), then all I am out is that I led a good honest life that treated others like I expect to be treated. So I don’t see the down side of living life according to the Bible because if you get past the interpretations by charlatans, and read and study it yourself, it basically just tells you to lead what is considered by our current laws as a good honest life where you do the right thing, and help others do the same. We won’t ever know the truth until we take that last breath, but for me personally, a parent who buried a 9 year old daughter, I prefer to be optimistic that there is something more past this earth, however ridiculous anyone thinks I am.



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Re: Why I (as an atheist) can be "turned off" or offended by people of Faith

danb said:

Several pages of discussion between believers of a higher power, and non believers, with a mix of “agnostic” who are riding the fence.

In the end there is only one thing for certain in life, and that is we will all die. The old saying the only two things certain is death and taxes is false, because I know several people that have never paid a dime(even sales tax because they’ve lived on the dole), but they most certainly will die!

Every one of us will eventually reach that point and it will be “game over” or we will either be blissfully happy or remorsefully regretful... depending on what is true or not. I prefer myself to believe in the Bible and believe in God and try to live as close to the teachings of the Bible as I can (and I am totally against all the “better than you” so called Christians running around pointing fingers....they ignore many parts of the Bible, and only quote the convenient parts that suit them) when I die if it is a laughable fallacy (as atheist think it is), then all I am out is that I led a good honest life that treated others like I expect to be treated. So I don’t see the down side of living life according to the Bible because if you get past the interpretations by charlatans, and read and study it yourself, it basically just tells you to lead what is considered by our current laws as a good honest life where you do the right thing, and help others do the same. We won’t ever know the truth until we take that last breath, but for me personally, a parent who buried a 9 year old daughter, I prefer to be optimistic that there is something more past this earth, however ridiculous anyone thinks I am.



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you make the same flawed argument that all religious people do which is that it is a binary choice, it isn't. It's not either you are right or there is nothing. There could be something we've not conceived of, the Hindu's could be right, or the Muslims, or Scientologists or Atheists or any other group. You have no idea. So your "living right by the bible" could be worse as you could get done with this life and end up in front a being that sentences you to eternity in hell for not being Amish which turned out to be the one true faith. There are an infinite number of potentially correct answers the one you were raised to believe (statistically speaking very few chose their religion most go with the assumption that the one they were taught is the only correct one) is just one of many. Who knows we could get done and find ourselves in front of Hades who there with a smug look on his face as an astonishing few have followed what is the right path for more than 2000 years

Re: Why I (as an atheist) can be "turned off" or offended by people of Faith

I am not going to venture into this discussion, but did want to make a statement about what I perceive to be "phony Christians". I have quite a few friends who are educated and have been successful in their business lives. Good people, the kind I am sure most on here would get along with in a business or social setting. They have worked all their adult lives, provided for their family, educated their children and now are at the stage in life to enjoy "the fruits of their labor".

OTOH, they have no tolerance for the marginalized segment in our society, calling them deadbeats, lazy, and taking advantage of the welfare system. The truth of the matter is they do not know anyone that is living like this and never have. They give to their church and other charitable endeavors which makes it okay to be covertly intolerant. But, for the most part they had flown under the radar until Donald Trump decided to run for the WH. His unlikely win has really emboldened them to come out aggressively against the aforementioned type of citizens and now includes their lack of any kind of empathy for immigrants. I have known these people for 30-40 years and considered them friends, but I no longer know them and quite frankly have no desire to associate with them any more. What happened, did they change or were they always like this, or did I change? IMO, you cannot hold these beliefs and espouse to be a Christian.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

Re: Why I (as an atheist) can be "turned off" or offended by people of Faith

Jon said:

you make the same flawed argument that all religious people do which is that it is a binary choice, it isn't. It's not either you are right or there is nothing. There could be something we've not conceived of, the Hindu's could be right, or the Muslims, or Scientologists or Atheists or any other group. You have no idea. So your "living right by the bible" could be worse as you could get done with this life and end up in front a being that sentences you to eternity in hell for not being Amish which turned out to be the one true faith. There are an infinite number of potentially correct answers the one you were raised to believe (statistically speaking very few chose their religion most go with the assumption that the one they were taught is the only correct one) is just one of many. Who knows we could get done and find ourselves in front of Hades who there with a smug look on his face as an astonishing few have followed what is the right path for more than 2000 years

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I understand what you are saying and I have often thought the same things myself (so many religions, which one, if any is the right choice).

At no point in my post did I claim that what I believe is the right choice (over all the many different religions). I merely made the point that if my choice is wrong, all that I’m out is living a decent life by what is generally considered that based upon our laws we live by in this country.


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Re: Why I (as an atheist) can be "turned off" or offended by people of Faith

danb said:

I understand what you are saying and I have often thought the same things myself (so many religions, which one, if any is the right choice).

At no point in my post did I claim that what I believe is the right choice (over all the many different religions). I merely made the point that if my choice is wrong, all that I’m out is living a decent life by what is generally considered that based upon our laws we live by in this country.


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I hear ya

Though our laws are not based on the christian bible.

Re: Why I (as an atheist) can be "turned off" or offended by people of Faith

Jon said:

I hear ya

Though our laws are not based on the christian bible.

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Once again, that isn’t what I said, although the wording I used could have been clearer.

I basically meant that by living the way the Bible teaches to live, is generally the way we are all expected to live by today’s laws...(don’t murder folks, steal, lie, cheat, etc). So if it’s all a big fallacy in the end, so what?


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Re: Why I (as an atheist) can be "turned off" or offended by people of Faith

danb said:

Once again, that isn’t what I said, although the wording I used could have been clearer.

I basically meant that by living the way the Bible teaches to live, is generally the way we are all expected to live by today’s laws...(don’t murder folks, steal, lie, cheat, etc). So if it’s all a big fallacy in the end, so what?


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well

If the jews or muslims are right and you didn't keep kosher or hallal that could be a problem

if the hindus are right eating cow was an issue

if the amish are right using Technology past the 1840's will cause you problems

if I'm right it won't matter a bit

Re: Why I (as an atheist) can be "turned off" or offended by people of Faith

danb said:

Once again, that isn’t what I said, although the wording I used could have been clearer.
I basically meant that by living the way the Bible teaches to live, is generally the way we are all expected to live by today’s laws...(don’t murder folks, steal, lie, cheat, etc). So if it’s all a big fallacy in the end, so what?

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I've never understood why it's taken as a given that the bible is the only means to learn rules of being a decent human. Humans are tribal by nature. Murder, stealing, adultery, and all the other basic other things have been seen as negatives in other religions or societal structures. You can be a decent person having never learned about the bible. You can also be a pretty terrible person all the while professing a deep christian belief.

It seems you are essentially advocating for Pascal's Wager as a viable means to come to Jesus. If I misunderstand your point of view, I apologize.

Re: Why I (as an atheist) can be "turned off" or offended by people of Faith

chanson78 said:

I've never understood why it's taken as a given that the bible is the only means to learn rules of being a decent human. Humans are tribal by nature. Murder, stealing, adultery, and all the other basic other things have been seen as negatives in other religions or societal structures. You can be a decent person having never learned about the bible. You can also be a pretty terrible person all the while professing a deep christian belief.

It seems you are essentially advocating for Pascal's Wager as a viable means to come to Jesus. If I misunderstand your point of view, I apologize.

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There are, and have been, many many truly horrible people professing to be Christians that fall into the charlatan category I mentioned in my first post. Just as there are many folks that have never read the first word of the Bible that live good honest lives. I never meant to imply people who haven’t read the Bible can’t live a good decent life, nor that people who claim they are Christian always do.

As Pascals Wager is concerned, I guess in my simplistic attempt at describing in this thread of why I believe in God it could be construed that way, but I believe the feeling should be more sincere and only each individual person can truly know in their heart the reason for what they believe in or not and for what reason.


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