Here is the reason why LSU doesn't compete for NCs

LSUgrad2BamaDad

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I was going to say in my post title - other than the fact that Bama has Saban - but Saban is the driver of the culture. I was in a meeting with several execs from clients last week and the CEO of one said "My main job is to be the guardian of our culture." Wow, he was so right.

Miles was a great recruiter and a decent coach. It was the lure of the NFL that he promised which has created this situation we are in now, and it's going to be a challenge to escape it. O is not likely the guy to do that - just look at his comments about D White in the article.

How Saban gets a guy like Damien Harris to return, or DeRon Payne the year before, is mind boggling.


http://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/sports/lsu/article_c7ee064c-477f-11e8-9ab3-2f8cfb40b952.html
 

rgw

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Payne was a true junior who rightfully left as early as he could by NFL rules. The fact that we got Jon Allen back in 2016 was impressive because I thought he was better than the two guys who declared for the draft from the 2015 team on the DL. Told every NFL guy I knew that Robinson and Reed were 2nd round quality but the guy who came back was a first rounder.
 

CrimsonForce

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Honestly, it's because they haven't had an elite QB in a long time or quite frankly just decent QB play. I guess Jamarcus Russell would be the last guy who comes to mind who was an elite talent and performed pretty good on the field. Les Miles, for whatever reason, was never able to develop the QB position. If LSU just had above average QB play they'd probably have at least 1 (and maybe) more titles under Miles. Orgeron still hasn't solved the problem based on what I've heard from the spring game. The problem now is that, IMO, recruiting will start to dip under Orgeron. They'll still have really good front line players but depth will start to be an issue..
 

LSUgrad2BamaDad

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Payne was a true junior who rightfully left as early as he could by NFL rules. The fact that we got Jon Allen back in 2016 was impressive because I thought he was better than the two guys who declared for the draft from the 2015 team on the DL. Told every NFL guy I knew that Robinson and Reed were 2nd round quality but the guy who came back was a first rounder.
My bad, I meant J Allen. You can tell I'm not a die hard!

And regarding the QBs, that is definitely part of it. Mettenberger was elite by college FB standards and he had Jarvis Landry and Odell Beckham, Jr. as targets. We should have beaten Bama in 2012 and gone to the NC, but Miles had lost his onions by that time and 3rd and Chavis lived up to the criticism. In the end, Bama outcoached LSU, Bama won, not making excuses.

I still think when the culture is more about getting to the NFL, the players are focused less on the team and more on self. You can't win championships that way. Saban is able to get his players to buy into the bigger picture first and their personal achievements follow.
 

B1GTide

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From an outsider - I think that the LSU culture of winning under Miles was well established. You ran into an Alabama team that was just a hair better and the powers behind the curtain let that get into their heads. Everything became about beating Alabama. When you become results oriented, the process that produces those good results falls apart.

LSU needs to find a head coach who does things the right way, with every game treated equally and success being measured by quality preparation and play, not the scoreboard.
 

GrayTide

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From an outsider - I think that the LSU culture of winning under Miles was well established. You ran into an Alabama team that was just a hair better and the powers behind the curtain let that get into their heads. Everything became about beating Alabama. When you become results oriented, the process that produces those good results falls apart.

LSU needs to find a head coach who does things the right way, with every game treated equally and success being measured by quality preparation and play, not the scoreboard.
No doubt losing that many quality players has hurt your team, but B1G is right your current coach is not a championship level coach. He might make a run occasionally, but he will normally be a 9-3 coach.
 

TomFromBama

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From an outsider - I think that the LSU culture of winning under Miles was well established. You ran into an Alabama team that was just a hair better and the powers behind the curtain let that get into their heads. Everything became about beating Alabama. When you become results oriented, the process that produces those good results falls apart.

LSU needs to find a head coach who does things the right way, with every game treated equally and success being measured by quality preparation and play, not the scoreboard.
Mostly agree with this, and with most of what's been posted above this. Saban has been inside Les' head from the moment he was hired at UA - and he's still inside many heads in Baton Rouge. Les Very Nearly blew the 2007 game against us (a game that "Should" have been an LSu ROUT) by trying to embarrass Saban rather than simply trying to win the game.

AND - da Tiga's surely have suffered from QB play. Sure, they've had some lean years at QB, but honestly, it's not like its been THAT bad, THAT often. They've had several QB's who were at least "Serviceable" since 2005.

And again - honestly, how many "Great" QB's has Alabama had under Nick Saban? AJ is the only one (so far) who's seriously threatened to be an NFL starter - and even AJ isn't a "Lock" unless it happens for him this fall - his 5th year in the NFL??

I think the underlying problem is a cultural one. I lived in LA for several years before I was blessed to be able to move to "God's Country", Lower Alabama, and I can tell you (even though stereotypes are always unfair) - Louisiana, due in part to its ethnic composition, has more than its share of "Big talkers"; Front-runners and blow-hards who want to talk trash, but can't always back it up when challenged. (For example, the Weed Weasel back in 2011).

This IMO likely contributes a lot to their problem with early departures. To be sure, we are NOT Immune from the problem, and we've seen guys leave before they really should have. But we seem to control it better than most in our position.

At LSu, you have tons of "Big Talkers" with RAGING EGO's - (at some level) they seem to think they just have to show up and the NFL money will flow like water. I suspect, since they seem to arrive at LSU with this attitude, many of them probably don't have much choice BUT to leave, as they probably have invested VERY LITTLE EFFORT into getting an actual education, beyond the minimum necessary to stay eligible. Probably more than a few that have "progress toward degree" (or whatever the proper term is) issues.
 
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Bamabuzzard

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A lot of Miles' success was due to the residual impact of Nick Saban's recruiting and established culture. You could begin to see Saban's recruits and influence running out and Mile's taking over. Finally being a program fully built by Miles. It took a while for the culture Saban had built to be torn down. But ultimately that is what Miles couldn't sustain.
 

TomFromBama

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A lot of Miles' success was due to the residual impact of Nick Saban's recruiting and established culture. You could begin to see Saban's recruits and influence running out and Mile's taking over. Finally being a program fully built by Miles. It took a while for the culture Saban had built to be torn down. But ultimately that is what Miles couldn't sustain.
Agree.

And "FWIW" that probably explains why Les isn't working these days. Honestly, I really thought some mid-major type P-5 program would scoop him up in a heartbeat - somebody like Kansas, Indiana, Rutgers, or Arizona State, etc.

Then again, maybe he doesn't want a job like that - or maybe he's content to retire. Lord knows, he surely can't need any more money!
 

crimsonaudio

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Yah, the departure of underclassmen certainly doesn't help, but with the right HC LSU could be back challenging for the west annually. I don't see that happening with Orgeron, and in fact I think his hiring hints at even more serious problems in the AD leadership.
 

RedWave

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A lot of Miles' success was due to the residual impact of Nick Saban's recruiting and established culture. You could begin to see Saban's recruits and influence running out and Mile's taking over. Finally being a program fully built by Miles. It took a while for the culture Saban had built to be torn down. But ultimately that is what Miles couldn't sustain.
I have been saying something along this line for a long time. The success that Miles had for much of his tenure was due to the culture that had been built by Saban which persisted, though in a diminishing capacity, after his departure. Miles could have kept it going, and possibly improved/built upon it, but he failed to do so. If the day ever comes when it is finally decided that Coach Saban can not be cloned and will have to be replaced, I hope the person who takes the reigns is able to take full advantage of the foundation that has been firmly established here and keep it on that level. I will say, though, that it did last longer for Miles than I anticipated it would, so I will give him just a tiny drop of credit.
 

LSUgrad2BamaDad

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Yah, the departure of underclassmen certainly doesn't help, but with the right HC LSU could be back challenging for the west annually. I don't see that happening with Orgeron, and in fact I think his hiring hints at even more serious problems in the AD leadership.
Ya think? The AD (Alleva) whiffed on opportunities to hire one established coach and one promising coach, botched the Les firing, got taken to the woodshed on the Florida hurricane game cancellation, forced an OC that didn't fit upon a coach who shouldn't have been hired in the first place, and hasn't really done anything promising for the program. This is the same guy who was AD at Duke during the "Fantastic Lies" that had him cancel the Lacrosse season (btw, still the best 30 for 30 IMO).

As for Ogre being a 9-3 coach, I don't think we'll see that this year.
 

Krymsonman

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Ya think? The AD (Alleva) whiffed on opportunities to hire one established coach and one promising coach, botched the Les firing, got taken to the woodshed on the Florida hurricane game cancellation, forced an OC that didn't fit upon a coach who shouldn't have been hired in the first place, and hasn't really done anything promising for the program. This is the same guy who was AD at Duke during the "Fantastic Lies" that had him cancel the Lacrosse season (btw, still the best 30 for 30 IMO).

As for Ogre being a 9-3 coach, I don't think we'll see that this year.
Hey BAMA Dad, (I'll call you BamaDad instead of LSUGrad, (ha ha),

I have several LSU friends down here in south Louisiana, but not many that have a favorable outlook for LSU this year. What's your prognosis for the 2018 Tiger team?
 

LSUgrad2BamaDad

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Hey BAMA Dad, (I'll call you BamaDad instead of LSUGrad, (ha ha),

I have several LSU friends down here in south Louisiana, but not many that have a favorable outlook for LSU this year. What's your prognosis for the 2018 Tiger team?
You're making me say this now? In April??? The way I feel after reading about and watching highlights of the spring game - 8-4 may be BEST case.
 

DzynKingRTR

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You're making me say this now? In April??? The way I feel after reading about and watching highlights of the spring game - 8-4 may be BEST case.
I am sure you guys will beat some team you have no business beating and lose to someone you have no business losing to. On the bright side, you don't play Troy this year.
 

Tenntiderman

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Ya think? The AD (Alleva) whiffed on opportunities to hire one established coach and one promising coach, botched the Les firing, got taken to the woodshed on the Florida hurricane game cancellation, forced an OC that didn't fit upon a coach who shouldn't have been hired in the first place, and hasn't really done anything promising for the program. This is the same guy who was AD at Duke during the "Fantastic Lies" that had him cancel the Lacrosse season (btw, still the best 30 for 30 IMO).

As for Ogre being a 9-3 coach, I don't think we'll see that this year.
Imagine what might have been in Baton Rouge had Coach Saban stayed around? How many titles and SECCG's might LSU own today? A thought common to many of football fans across the nation I guess. But interesting to think about. I could envision that scenario during the Bama vs LSU game back in 2000. Never had I seen a HC in Baton Rouge coaching that hard and one could see a team being built even in his first year there.
 

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