What is y'alls philosophy on striking out? Is it not as big of a deal anymore?

UAH

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Not sure if you watched the A-Rod interview with Pujols the other night but in the interview A-Rod asked Pujols which was more important to him. The 3,000 hits or the 600+ homeruns. Without batting an eye he said the hits. Which he then transitioned into talking about batting average meaning a lot to him.

Think about it. A slugger may hit 40 hr's in a season. That in and of itself is highly impressive. But putting into context of how many total at bats they had during a year (550) and honestly, it's a blip on the radar. I know HR's are a "sexier" and more popular aspect of the game among the masses. But more times than not it's the non homerun hits that win ballgames.
Pujols is a great example! If young players would dissect his swing and work hard to duplicate it they will go as far in baseball as their athleticism and genetics will allow.

A hitting coach we worked with at Tallahassee Community College favorite axiom was ...the top of the ball is yours, the bottom of the ball is the pitchers.

We seldom saw Albert popping out!
 

Bamabuzzard

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Pujols is a great example! If young players would dissect his swing and work hard to duplicate it they will go as far in baseball as their athleticism and genetics will allow.

A hitting coach we worked with at Tallahassee Community College favorite axiom was ...the top of the ball is yours, the bottom of the ball is the pitchers.

We seldom saw Albert popping out!
Beautiful swing.


 

CrimsonTheory

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I hate the "grip and rip" and "three true outcome" modern hitter.

When I played, I hated to strike out. It was a source of pride to NOT strike out. I never understood why a player would not choke up on the bat, and shorten the swing with two strikes. The chances of hitting a home run with 2 strikes is slim, and while getting a hit with 2 strikes is not a guarantee but at least you have a better chance at getting on if you shorten the swing and take a more direct approach to two strike hitting.

I'm not saying to de-emphasize the home run, I'm saying emphasize contact hitting more.
 

crimsonkelly

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Didn’t see the interview, have to google it. In reality, if a player hits 50 bombs and has an average number of at bats, we are talking about a hit (albeit home run, 600 plate appearances) ever 6 at bats. That is good for a .167 avg assuming no walks, etc. if a player has a great hitting year, 200 hits, we are saying a hit every 3 at bats. Good for .333. It doesn’t take a mathmatician to see which one is gonna carry you further.
 

crimsonkelly

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Well, as a middle school coach for almost 15 years. Our approach is think between the gaps, or up the middle if you wish. We use hit and run and GASP, even bunt or fake bunt & steal. With 2 strikes, choking up is basically a requirement. Letting guys that are the size of Giancarlo Stanton and Aaron Judge get 3 hacks at it versus 2 and a contact swing, well, they can change a scoreboard very quickly. But, those guys are still strong enough to deposit it with 1 arm so why not hit for contact? Must be too much work for that generation to do....

.406 is still more impressive than 60+ homers to me. Unless you do them together in 1 season!

Look at these and tell me what Ruth would have gotten paid if he could do that in today's game? I would venture to say $40-50,000,000 a year.
Forgot the link!
https://rateyourmusic.com/list/yerb...ive_seasons_by_major_league_baseball_players/
 

cuda.1973

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Yep. I read an article last year that stated the average youth league baseball coach didn't play past the age of 10 years old. I found that alarming (if accurate).
So..................you are saying that I am imminently qualified to teach kids the right way to play?

And get into fights with their dim-bulb dads.

No, thanks. I'll pass.

Luckily, I won't be around to see what a mess that generation turns everything into, when they are the ones in charge.
 

Bamabuzzard

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So..................you are saying that I am imminently qualified to teach kids the right way to play?

And get into fights with their dim-bulb dads.

No, thanks. I'll pass.

Luckily, I won't be around to see what a mess that generation turns everything into, when they are the ones in charge.
I think the most alarming thing about that "statistic" (again, assuming it is somewhat accurate) is that people who do have advanced experience in baseball aren't coaching more on the youth level. Granted, the pool of people who go onto play college ball is a lot smaller than those who played HS ball, and those who played HS ball is smaller than those who played youth league. And we all know the percentage of those who play pro ball (very, very, very small). But A LOT of people go on to play HS baseball. Yet the "average" experience of youth league coaches is 10 years old?

That's not an indictment on the guy volunteering to coach who only played to age 10. But an indictment on those who do have the experience and choose not to give back to the game. Granted, there's no obligation to do so and those who don't shouldn't be shamed. But it is a good way to further the game and get better quality baseball.
 
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Ratal

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I think experience playing can be overblown at times. Patrick Murphy did not grow up playing fast pitch softball. We also have Mike Leach, David Cutcliffe, Paul Johnson, and Chad Morris never played any level of college football. It is all about your drive to learn the craft and dedication to teach your players. I think you have 2 main reasons for people coaching at the younger levels. Either you are wanting to coach your kid or the league can't find anyone willing to coach. Last year I coached a fast pitch softball team because they could not find anyone else. I took a group of girls that averaged about 2 wins a year as they grew up to the 3rd best team in the league behind 2 travel ball teams. The girls had not been taught anything.

On the topic of strike outs. I had 2 issues that I had to work through. 1st was kids taking the first pitch EVERY at bat. I kept trying to get them to understand that if you never swing at the first pitch the pitchers will become comfortable with that and throw a strike the first pitch and get you behind the count immediately. The other problem was the girls that would not swing with 2 strikes on them. I actually had a game where I told the girls they owed me laps if they struck out looking.
 

gman4tide

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On the topic of strike outs. I had 2 issues that I had to work through. 1st was kids taking the first pitch EVERY at bat. I kept trying to get them to understand that if you never swing at the first pitch the pitchers will become comfortable with that and throw a strike the first pitch and get you behind the count immediately. The other problem was the girls that would not swing with 2 strikes on them. I actually had a game where I told the girls they owed me laps if they struck out looking.
The first is our high school team philosophy (but hey, it's gotten the coach over a 1000 wins) and drives me nuts! I actually had games pre-hs where we had to do laps for looking at a 3rd strike. Also had drills where we had to swing no matter what. Both made a better hitter out of me.
 

Bamabuzzard

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I think experience playing can be overblown at times. Patrick Murphy did not grow up playing fast pitch softball. We also have Mike Leach, David Cutcliffe, Paul Johnson, and Chad Morris never played any level of college football. It is all about your drive to learn the craft and dedication to teach your players. I think you have 2 main reasons for people coaching at the younger levels. Either you are wanting to coach your kid or the league can't find anyone willing to coach. Last year I coached a fast pitch softball team because they could not find anyone else. I took a group of girls that averaged about 2 wins a year as they grew up to the 3rd best team in the league behind 2 travel ball teams. The girls had not been taught anything.

On the topic of strike outs. I had 2 issues that I had to work through. 1st was kids taking the first pitch EVERY at bat. I kept trying to get them to understand that if you never swing at the first pitch the pitchers will become comfortable with that and throw a strike the first pitch and get you behind the count immediately. The other problem was the girls that would not swing with 2 strikes on them. I actually had a game where I told the girls they owed me laps if they struck out looking.
No doubt, you don't have to have played the game on a high level to be a good teacher/coach of the game. However, there are a lot of valuable nuances and subtleties of the game that coaches who have played the game can teach their kids that can give them a leg up. Also, someone who has played the game understands the emotional and mental struggles a player can go through, and can give tips and insight on perspective and approaches to work through them. But I respect any person man or woman who gives up their free time and volunteers to coach youth league sports. It is a tough thing to do.
 

Bamabuzzard

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The first is our high school team philosophy (but hey, it's gotten the coach over a 1000 wins) and drives me nuts! I actually had games pre-hs where we had to do laps for looking at a 3rd strike. Also had drills where we had to swing no matter what. Both made a better hitter out of me.
Completely agree. There's nothing wrong with learning how to hit "bad" pitches hard. When you get two strikes, it doesn't matter whether the batter thinks the pitch is a strike or a ball. It's what the man in blue behind the catcher thinks. I think many coaches in trying to teach their kids to only swing at strikes (which is not a bad thing to teach), also hurt them by not ever teaching them that in a real game you may have to swing at a "bad pitch" that is close enough around the strike zone that the ump will call a strike. Vladimir Guerrero (and Suzuki Ichiro as well) come to mind as some of the greatest "bad ball" hitters I've ever seen.
 

UAH

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This thread has prompted me to think a lot about the art of hitting for reasons I won't go into here.

When my son was playing in the ninth grade we were fortunate to meet Francisco Matos when he was playing AAA ball. He had led AAA in hitting the previous season. He went on to coach hitting with the Angels and now the Texas Rangers. We worked with him for two off seasons.

In thinking about the main things we learned working with Francisco:

There is a lot to go into as for as situational hitting as to the pitch the hitter is likely to see based on runners on base, the count, number of outs, etc. That is a lot for a hitter to think about and much of that is the third base coach's job. It essentially boils down to...Am I looking fastball here?

There is likely to be only one good pitch to hit in each at bat.

Seeing the ball out of the pitchers hand. With experience a hitter knows if they are swinging or taking that pitch.

After that it is trusting your hands to the ball . A good hitter will drive a pitch away opposite field and will pull an inside pitch.

We could talk baseball for days but based on my observations most coaches just do not have the experience to teach hitting fundamentals.

As an aside I have seen a number of Div 1 and Drafted players in HS and travel ball. Once they begin to see good pitching every at bat becomes a battle. Hitting is one of the greatest challenges in sports.
 

Bamabuzzard

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We could talk baseball for days but based on my observations most coaches just do not have the experience to teach hitting fundamentals.
One of the problems I see on the youth league level (and the HS level as well) is coaches who have "educated themselves" on hitting trying to fit every player into one mold. There are some universal principles to hitting that apply to every hitter, no matter their body type, level of play etc. I can probably count those universal principles on one hand. After that, teaching a player the best way for them to hit becomes unique to that player's skill set, body type and other variables unique to that player.

I'll take my two oldest sons for example (7 yrs old, 10 yrs old) They have different body types and skill sets. Some general background about the two:

The 10 year old has above average athletic talent (in context of baseball talent), he's long and slinder, has relatively quick hands through the hitting zone, but has average hand eye coordination when it comes to making consistent contact with the ball and his bat control is average. That's normal for kids his age. Remember, hitting a baseball is hard for grown people who are paid to do it.

The 7 year old has elite talent (in the context of baseball talent), he's shorter in statue, compact, has explosive quick hands through the hitting zone, has elite hand eye coordination and excellent bat control.


Considering the above, I cannot teach my 10 year old and my 7 year old to hit the same way. They have different skill sets and different body types. I have to tailor their approaches and mechanics to hitting to fit their body type and their skill set.
 
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B1GTide

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No doubt, you don't have to have played the game on a high level to be a good teacher/coach of the game. However, there are a lot of valuable nuances and subtleties of the game that coaches who have played the game can teach their kids that can give them a leg up. Also, someone who has played the game understands the emotional and mental struggles a player can go through, and can give tips and insight on perspective and approaches to work through them. But I respect any person man or woman who gives up their free time and volunteers to coach youth league sports. It is a tough thing to do.
Amen to the bolded. There are many tools and videos on-line to help coaches with less playing experience. Heck, the best coach in our local league is a woman. Her boys have long since moved on to college and beyond but she keeps on coaching because she loves to help these kids.

My career never allowed me to coach my boys, so I have always had to rely on the kindness of strangers to coach them. Some of these strangers are now great friends.
 

Bamabuzzard

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Amen to the bolded. There are many tools and videos on-line to help coaches with less playing experience. Heck, the best coach in our local league is a woman. Her boys have long since moved on to college and beyond but she keeps on coaching because she loves to help these kids.

My career never allowed me to coach my boys, so I have always had to rely on the kindness of strangers to coach them. Some of these strangers are now great friends.
My 7 yr old plays coach pitch and there is a team coached by a husband and wife tandem. They do not have kids on the team but both of them played college level athletics (baseball & softball). They do it as a way to "give back" to youth baseball where their kids played when they were younger. Their team is one of the top three in the league.
 

B1GTide

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My 7 yr old plays coach pitch and there is a team coached by a husband and wife tandem. They do not have kids on the team but both of them played college level athletics (baseball & softball). They do it as a way to "give back" to youth baseball where their kids played when they were younger. Their team is one of the top three in the league.
The woman coach in our community played college softball, but never baseball.
 

gman4tide

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Amen to the bolded. There are many tools and videos on-line to help coaches with less playing experience. Heck, the best coach in our local league is a woman. Her boys have long since moved on to college and beyond but she keeps on coaching because she loves to help these kids.

My career never allowed me to coach my boys, so I have always had to rely on the kindness of strangers to coach them. Some of these strangers are now great friends.
I both coached and watched as others coached my 2 sons thru the years. I prob went overboard trying not to do the daddy ball thing and found it was great for both to be coached by a hired coach when they got to middle/jr hs ball. I see a lot of kids who never had a coach other than their father fail when trying out for hs ball because they don't know what to do outside their tutelage(sp?).
 

Bamabuzzard

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I both coached and watched as others coached my 2 sons thru the years. I prob went overboard trying not to do the daddy ball thing and found it was great for both to be coached by a hired coach when they got to middle/jr hs ball. I see a lot of kids who never had a coach other than their father fail when trying out for hs ball because they don't know what to do outside their tutelage(sp?).
It's why I don't/won't coach any of my son's youth league teams. I work them out and "coach" them on an individual level. Which I feel a responsibility to do. But I don't want to be their team coach. They need to get used to being coached by different people.
 

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