What is y'alls philosophy on striking out? Is it not as big of a deal anymore?

Bamabuzzard · May 4, 2018

I posted this on my FB page and thought it would be a good topic for discussion for the few baseball folks we have on TF's. According to the MLB Network, April 2018 was the first time in MLB history that there were more strikeouts than hits. I know with the increasing craze about launch angle, taking equally hard cuts with two strikes as you do with no strikes and generally a more "all or nothing" approach to hitting. This really doesn't surprise me.

I remember striking out used to be frowned upon. "At least put the ball in play", "Two strike hitting" is what I heard and was taught my entire life. There were and are hitting videos by greats like Tony Gwynn, Wade Boggs, Mattingly and others who tell you how their approach to hitting changed with two strikes. That type mindset seems to be a thing of the past. What are y'alls thoughts about this and what are y'all teaching y'alls players? I know several of the retired now turned analyst on the MLB Network just cannot get over how many times a lot of these guys strikeout over the course of a season.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlbs-biggest-problem-is-not-pace-of-play-and-its-only-getting-worse-in-2018/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2017/09/28/whiffle-ball-mlb-sets-strikeout-record-for-10th-year-in-row/106068922/

gman4tide · May 4, 2018

Drives me nuts, and i'm just a dad. My youngest (after being told last summer by showcase coach) will not cut his swing back with 2 strikes. I've tried to get him to understand that showcase ball and high school ball are 2 different types of ball. Gotta play situational ball...runners on 2nd and 3rd...gotta do all you can to put the ball in play (especially with 2 strikes).

Bamabuzzard · May 4, 2018

gman4tide said:
Drives me nuts, and i'm just a dad. My youngest (after being told last summer by showcase coach) will not cut his swing back with 2 strikes. I've tried to get him to understand that showcase ball and high school ball are 2 different types of ball. Gotta play situational ball...runners on 2nd and 3rd...gotta do all you can to put the ball in play (especially with 2 strikes).

My 10 year old son's coach and I argue (debate really, not argue) about this constantly. He's early 30's and I'm in my 40's. He doesn't believe in "two strike hitting" and wants the boys to take just as hard of a cut with two strikes as with zero. His thought process is trying to slow down your swing creates more problems than you're trying to solve because they don't normally swing that way anyway. My rebuttal to him is, you teach them how. Because when you put the ball in play you're forcing the defense to catch the ball cleanly, make an accurate throw etc. Where as striking out is instant. You're done. The defense has to do nothing. He doesn't agree.

UAH · May 4, 2018

Bamabuzzard said:
My 10 year old son's coach and I argue (debate really, not argue) about this constantly. He's early 30's and I'm in my 40's. He doesn't believe in "two strike hitting" and wants the boys to take just as hard of a cut with two strikes as with zero. His thought process is trying to slow down your swing creates more problems than you're trying to solve because they don't normally swing that way anyway. My rebuttal to him is, you teach them how. Because when you put the ball in play you're forcing the defense to catch the ball cleanly, make an accurate throw etc. Where as striking out is instant. You're done. The defense has to do nothing. He doesn't agree.

A coach who isn't teaching opposite field hitting and making contact isn't doing much coaching at all. The only purpose of playing youth baseball is to begin to learn the fundamentals.

Even with today's aluminum bats it is difficult for a youngster to dominate the bat in a way to drive the ball all fields. In my experience the surest way to beat even a dominate pitcher is shorten up and hit opposite field particularly when down in the count.

Bamabuzzard · May 4, 2018

UAH said:
A coach who isn't teaching opposite field hitting and making contact isn't doing much coaching at all. The only purpose of playing youth baseball is to begin to learn the fundamentals.

The "funny" thing is (and yes I'll slip in some brag here! LOL!) take a guess which player on the team is constantly on base? I'll give you a hint. It's the kid whose daddy teaches him to adjust his approach and swing once he gets two strikes. While the rest of the kids continue to windmill away and go back to the dugout with their head down after striking out.

Blindside13 · May 4, 2018

What drives me crazy is taking strike three. I tell my son when he has two strikes swing at anything close around the plate, even if you think it may be a ball. If you put the ball in play you never know but you definitely can't hit the ball with the bat on your shoulder. Other than that if he swings and misses I don't see a problem it happens.

Bamabuzzard · May 4, 2018

Blindside13 said:
What drives me crazy is taking strike three. I tell my son when he has two strikes swing at anything close around the plate, even if you think it may be a ball. If you put the ball in play you never know but you definitely can't hit the ball with the bat on your shoulder. Other than that if he swings and misses I don't see a problem it happens.

I have a saying I tell my boys with regards to two strike hitting, "You're 1000% guaranteed to not hit the ball if you don't swing."

I don't mind swinging and missing with two strikes. But I do believe in changing a player's approach and mindset once he gets two strikes. Granted, there are exceptions to the rule. But in general, teaching a kid how to hit with two strikes results in more balls put in play and increasing his chances at getting on base. But that's just my philosophy. Obviously that philosophy is going by the wayside in today's game.

I will say this. Taking my 10 year old's team as an example. I haven't actually kept up with it. But I'd dang near bet my entire Roth IRA that the on base % after getting two strikes is atrocious for the players who do not adjust their mindset and approach after getting two strikes. Our 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th batters all take massive cuts with two strikes (my son hits lead-off). You can all but take it to the bank that once these guys get two strikes they are going to strike out. If they don't hit it before they get two strikes odds are they're not. Where as (yes I'm going to brag a bit more) my son will adjust his approach with two strikes and simply focus on putting the ball in play. Now he may not "get a hit" to get on base all the time. But many, many times he gets on because of a fielding error that he forced by putting the ball in play and making them get him out.

gman4tide · May 4, 2018

UAH said:
A coach who isn't teaching opposite field hitting and making contact isn't doing much coaching at all. The only purpose of playing youth baseball is to begin to learn the fundamentals.

Even with today's aluminum bats it is difficult for a youngster to dominate the bat in a way to drive the ball all fields. In my experience the surest way to beat even a dominate pitcher is shorten up and hit opposite field particularly when down in the count.

Ironic that your handle is uah...it was the former pitching coach there that told my son (all kids on the team) that "he didn't wanna see oppo hits, seeing eye grounders etc...that they were there to catch a coach's eye and you don't do that with worm burners in the 3 hole". But there's a difference between showcase and school ball.

gman4tide · May 4, 2018

Blindside13 said:
What drives me crazy is taking strike three. I tell my son when he has two strikes swing at anything close around the plate, even if you think it may be a ball. If you put the ball in play you never know but you definitely can't hit the ball with the bat on your shoulder. Other than that if he swings and misses I don't see a problem it happens.

And with the quality of some of the guys behind the plate...why would you put that call in their hands?

Ebay · May 4, 2018

It comes down to the old saying about opinions being like...whatever you choose to insert here. While it is true that "Chicks dig the long ball", its also true that people talk about the five tools of the game - speed, defense, arm strength, hitting for power, and HITTING FOR AVERAGE. Having a 2-strike approach adds to your average. Go ahead and swing out of your shoes with no strikes if there is no play put on. But hitters, especially young players, need to learn how to get on base - you can't score if you strike out swinging for a home run.

Bamabuzzard · May 4, 2018

gman4tide said:
Ironic that your handle is uah...it was the former pitching coach there that told my son (all kids on the team) that "he didn't wanna see oppo hits, seeing eye grounders etc...that they were there to catch a coach's eye and you don't do that with worm burners in the 3 hole". But there's a difference between showcase and school ball.

Funny that you say this. But a few months ago I was in a group of guys talking and there was a guy who coached travel ball that made the comment "Hitting 'worm burners' in between short and third will get you benched on my team." I didn't address the comment but internally I thought "What's the difference in a run driven in via a worm burner between SS and 3B compared to a line drive to left that one hops and is fielded by the left fielder?" Does the run count for more? Very odd thinking if you ask me.

UAH · May 4, 2018

gman4tide said:
Ironic that your handle is uah...it was the former pitching coach there that told my son (all kids on the team) that "he didn't wanna see oppo hits, seeing eye grounders etc...that they were there to catch a coach's eye and you don't do that with worm burners in the 3 hole". But there's a difference between showcase and school ball.

Well UAH isn't known for such great coaching in baseball! Tony Gwynn made a pretty good career hitting the ball where it was pitched. Bail and whale style is a great way to hit .225 when pitchers seldom give you a pitch over the middle of the plate. The key is to develop great hitting mechanics.

CrimsonNagus · May 4, 2018

gman4tide said:
Ironic that your handle is uah...it was the former pitching coach there that told my son (all kids on the team) that "he didn't wanna see oppo hits, seeing eye grounders etc...that they were there to catch a coach's eye and you don't do that with worm burners in the 3 hole". But there's a difference between showcase and school ball.

That's pretty sad that coach's aren't looking for great contact hitters these days. Not everyone in the majors are HR hitters, plenty of room in a lineup for players that can consistently put the ball in play.

It drives me freaking crazy to watch a Braves player stare at strike 3. Swing at anything close with 2 strikes!! Nothing will ever happen with the bat on your shoulder. If you get your pitch then try and rip it but, otherwise, put the ball in play and force the defense to make a play. I thought this was baseball common sense. Guess not these days. You're a bad baseball coach if you are not teaching kids this kind of stuff IMO.

Ebay · May 4, 2018

The odd thinking is driven by the fact that too many baseball coaches are filled with testosterone and red bull and are trying to relive their glory days through the kids on their team.

UAH · May 4, 2018

Bamabuzzard said:
Funny that you say this. But a few months ago I was in a group of guys talking and there was a guy who coached travel ball that made the comment "Hitting 'worm burners' in between short and third will get you benched on my team." I didn't address the comment but internally I thought "What's the difference in a run driven in via a worm burner between SS and 3B compared to a line drive to left that one hops and is fielded by the left fielder?" Does the run count for more? Very odd thinking if you ask me.

He is just running a bit high on testosterone and low on knowledge of baseball!

UAH · May 4, 2018

Exactly! Crazy talk!

Bamabuzzard · May 4, 2018

Ebay said:
The odd thinking is driven by the fact that too many baseball coaches are filled with testosterone and red bull and are trying to relive their glory days through the kids on their team.

Yep. I read an article last year that stated the average youth league baseball coach didn't play past the age of 10 years old. I found that alarming (if accurate).

Ebay · May 4, 2018

UAH said:
Exactly! Crazy talk!

Or...just stupid talk. If you think with the big head (gray matter), you reach one conclusion. if you think with the little head (testosterone), you reach another.

crimsonkelly · May 4, 2018

Well, as a middle school coach for almost 15 years. Our approach is think between the gaps, or up the middle if you wish. We use hit and run and GASP, even bunt or fake bunt & steal. With 2 strikes, choking up is basically a requirement. Letting guys that are the size of Giancarlo Stanton and Aaron Judge get 3 hacks at it versus 2 and a contact swing, well, they can change a scoreboard very quickly. But, those guys are still strong enough to deposit it with 1 arm so why not hit for contact? Must be too much work for that generation to do....

.406 is still more impressive than 60+ homers to me. Unless you do them together in 1 season!

Look at these and tell me what Ruth would have gotten paid if he could do that in today's game? I would venture to say $40-50,000,000 a year.

Bamabuzzard · May 4, 2018

crimsonkelly said:
Well, as a middle school coach for almost 15 years. Our approach is think between the gaps, or up the middle if you wish. We use hit and run and GASP, even bunt or fake bunt & steal. With 2 strikes, choking up is basically a requirement. Letting guys that are the size of Giancarlo Stanton and Aaron Judge get 3 hacks at it versus 2 and a contact swing, well, they can change a scoreboard very quickly. But, those guys are still strong enough to deposit it with 1 arm so why not hit for contact? Must be too much work for that generation to do....

.406 is still more impressive than 60+ homers to me. Unless you do them together in 1 season!

Look at these and tell me what Ruth would have gotten paid if he could do that in today's game? I would venture to say $40-50,000,000 a year.

Not sure if you watched the A-Rod interview with Pujols the other night but in the interview A-Rod asked Pujols which was more important to him. The 3,000 hits or the 600+ homeruns. Without batting an eye he said the hits. Which he then transitioned into talking about batting average meaning a lot to him.

Think about it. A slugger may hit 40 hr's in a season. That in and of itself is highly impressive. But putting into context of how many total at bats they had during a year (550) and honestly, it's a blip on the radar. I know HR's are a "sexier" and more popular aspect of the game among the masses. But more times than not it's the non homerun hits that win ballgames.

What is y'alls philosophy on striking out? Is it not as big of a deal anymore?

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