Cracks are forming in the PAC-12 Conference.

81usaf92

TideFans Legend
Apr 26, 2008
35,349
31,566
187
South Alabama
Re: Cracks are forming is the Pac-12 Conference.

Major college football on the west coast is a 40,000 to 50,000-seat sport. For cultural and demographic reasons (justified or not), that is simply what the market will bear. Those with larger stadiums than that will have a lot of empty seats when their teams aren't good or perhaps if the matchups aren't compelling. I don't look down on them because of it, but it is fair game to remind them of it when they try to argue that their product is better than ours.

The gap in cultural preeminence between the Pac 12 footprint and the SEC (and Big 10 to a large extent) makes the Pac 12 Network less lucrative than the other conference networks. It is compounded by the time zone issue. Chasing good first- and second tier TV rights deals that remain in the same ballpark as the rest of the Power 5 means more weeknight games and late starting times for the marquee teams. Because there are very few Pac 12 matchups that measure up ratings-wise to the other conferences, hence the wacky start times.

Getting the Texas and perhaps Oklahoma schools would've solved their problems: dramatic increase in Pac 12 Network interest, better matchup inventory, and crucial Central Time Zone inventory. But with TV revenues flattening out and networks struggling to cope with cord-cutting (not to mention the Longhorn Network elephant in the room), I wonder if such an opportunity will ever present itself in the foreseeable future.

ESPN and Fox Sports essentially financed the last big round of realignment when they held the Big 12 harmless for losing valuable inventory while sweetening the pot for expanded leagues in subsequent renegotiations. I don't think the appetite to do it again is there.

I would not surprised at some point to see the Big 12 and Pac 12 try some scheduling alliance or shared television arrangement (short of an outright merger) to try to collectively squeeze out more media dollars.
I have a feeling that Texas is going to go independent at some point and leave the dwarves of the power 5 out in the dust and Oklahoma desperate to find a new home.
 

Pilot172000

1st Team
Sep 25, 2017
455
10
37
Winnsboro, LA
Re: Cracks are forming is the Pac-12 Conference.

I have a feeling that Texas is going to go independent at some point and leave the dwarves of the power 5 out in the dust and Oklahoma desperate to find a new home.
Not to turn this into a realignment thread, but OU would be best served to find a home in the SEC or Big10.

Also, I have learned that when it comes to Football there are only four real football conferences. NFC, AFC, SEC and Big10. The rest just Ebb and Flow.
 

uafan4life

Hall of Fame
Mar 30, 2001
15,615
7,449
287
43
Florence, AL
Re: Cracks are forming is the Pac-12 Conference.

Not to turn this into a realignment thread, but OU would be best served to find a home in the SEC or Big10.

Also, I have learned that when it comes to Football there are only four real football conferences. NFC, AFC, SEC and Big10. The rest just Ebb and Flow.
If you're going to include the Big 10 in that list then you need to also include the ACC.
 

UntouchableCrew

All-SEC
Nov 30, 2015
1,530
338
102
Re: Cracks are forming is the Pac-12 Conference.

They're only "in trouble" if they view themselves as being on the same footing as the SEC, Big 10, and ACC. They are not -- in fandom, money, relevance, etc. They have smaller fan-bases play games that are late for the rest of the country and just don't have the same significance or interest.

They'll be fine, IMO, but the gap between the elite conferences and the Pac-12 and Big XII will continue to grow.
 

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
45,587
47,157
187
Re: Cracks are forming is the Pac-12 Conference.

I don't necessarily agree. Top to Bottom, the Big10 fans show up for their games. Can you say that about the ACC?
The B1G, as a conference, has real, long term cohesion. The conference has been around forever, with pretty steady membership. The ACC simply doesn't have history as a football conference. Essentially you have fans of schools which are loosely affiliated into a conference. Look no further than their conference championship game attendance. Even when they have a national championship contender in the game, attendance is horrid and tickets cannot be given away.
 

Redwood Forrest

Hall of Fame
Sep 19, 2003
11,046
913
237
77
Boaz, AL USA
Re: Cracks are forming is the Pac-12 Conference.

I have a feeling that Texas is going to go independent at some point and leave the dwarves of the power 5 out in the dust and Oklahoma desperate to find a new home.
I don't think that will happen unless they work out a Notre Dame-like deal with the Big 12. It is supposed to be hard to find teams who want to play in a sure loss. Now when (not if) Texas comes back to their powerhouse status they will find it hard to schedule good teams 12 times each year. Well, at least that is the going theory about paying the big buyouts for the cupcakes.
 

81usaf92

TideFans Legend
Apr 26, 2008
35,349
31,566
187
South Alabama
Re: Cracks are forming is the Pac-12 Conference.

I don't think that will happen unless they work out a Notre Dame-like deal with the Big 12. It is supposed to be hard to find teams who want to play in a sure loss. Now when (not if) Texas comes back to their powerhouse status they will find it hard to schedule good teams 12 times each year. Well, at least that is the going theory about paying the big buyouts for the cupcakes.
Meh don’t put it past Texas to pull some crap and see a potential ND model of doing things.
 

Redwood Forrest

Hall of Fame
Sep 19, 2003
11,046
913
237
77
Boaz, AL USA
Re: Cracks are forming is the Pac-12 Conference.

Meh don’t put it past Texas to pull some crap and see a potential ND model of doing things.
That is what I am thinking. Even if they did a Notre Dame-like deal with the All America Conference it would probably work. Several teams close to home (Houston, SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, Memphis) and still seven games to schedule the P5 teams.

Of course the best bet for the Pac 12 (in this case) would be Oklahoma, Okla St, Kansas and Kansas St. Too bad the left coast is not interested in Church schools like Baylor, TCU, BYU, SMU and such. Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, TCU and Baylor would bring lots of fans and earlier TV telecasts.
 

JDCrimson

Hall of Fame
Feb 12, 2006
5,387
4,492
187
51
Re: Cracks are forming is the Pac-12 Conference.

With the recent tax legislation limiting the tax deduction to gifts to athletic program when there is a ticket benefit, this legislation is going to have a real impact on the athletic budgets of every college program in the country. The trends are established attendance is declining, cord cutting is increasing. The impact will show itself in couple of years with the biggest impact hitting the mid major programs and Title IX sports.

I'm not sure what the PAC 12 can do to fix its problems but the options are even less now than before.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
 

Redwood Forrest

Hall of Fame
Sep 19, 2003
11,046
913
237
77
Boaz, AL USA
Re: Cracks are forming is the Pac-12 Conference.

With the recent tax legislation limiting the tax deduction to gifts to athletic program when there is a ticket benefit, this legislation is going to have a real impact on the athletic budgets of every college program in the country. The trends are established attendance is declining, cord cutting is increasing. The impact will show itself in couple of years with the biggest impact hitting the mid major programs and Title IX sports.

I'm not sure what the PAC 12 can do to fix its problems but the options are even less now than before.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
This is an interesting question. Can schools cut the payroll to match the declining revenue? AD's as well as coaches? At some point it will have to be done unless another source of revenue is found.
 

RobK

All-SEC
Aug 27, 2004
1,506
7
0
47
Holts Summit, MO
knodell.blog-city.com
Re: Cracks are forming is the Pac-12 Conference.

Meh don’t put it past Texas to pull some crap and see a potential ND model of doing things.
If Texas gave the Big 12 the choice of either them leaving or staying in all sports but football and (in football) doing a Notre Dame-style agreement of playing Baylor, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, and 1 other rotating Big 12 every year (in exchange for a proportional cut of the TV pie), I'll bet the Big 12 would take the deal. Because the Pac 12 would certainly take that deal.
 

gtgilbert

All-American
Aug 12, 2011
3,202
4,182
187
Re: Cracks are forming is the Pac-12 Conference.

I know most people here can't stand Colin Cowherd but he's been saying this for years about the "empty seats" at USC games, UCLA games and other PAC-12 games. People in the south take this as an insult (even though I really don't think that's what he's doing), but Cowherd has routinely said "There's more to do on the west coast than in the south." He gave an example for someone living in California and said "Someone can drive an hour or so north and get mountains and hiking, or an hour or so southwest and get the beautiful beaches and the ocean, along with all the other non sports entertainment that isn't present in the south."

I saw this first hand when an old HS classmate of mine married a guy from Washington state. She was born and raised in the south, a "southern girl" who grew up on hunting and fishing with her daddy, college football, friday night HS football and pep rallies etc. However, since she's gotten married and moved out west she's even admitted (via social media) that she doesn't keep up with college football near as much. Her and her husband do a lot of hiking, camping, they drive south into California and go to the beach. There's simply much more to do.
I've never bought that more to do line, unless the more has to do with non-outdoor activity like other sports or concerts etc. From my house just outside of atlanta, I can be in my kayak on the river in 15 minutes, either of a couple of huge lakes in 45-60 minutes, national park hiking trails in 15, the start of the Appalachian Trail which is surrounded by other amazing hikes in 1:15, local MTB trail with awesome freeride sections in 15 or really amazing MTB trails in North GA in about 1:30 and some of the best in the world in NC in about 2:30, whitewater kayaking is only 1:40 and rock climbing all over the place. The only thing that's a bit of a long haul is the ocean. There's more than enough to do, it's just that folks tend to schedule those activities around their football team schedule. It's also a bit easier to schedule here. If we start at a reasonable time, it's easy to get in a solid outdoor morning activity before even the noon games, and if it's an afternoon or evening game then it can be a big day outside. Back in Tuscaloosa, we used to get in big MTB rides in the national forest before games on Saturdays. Of course, all those fun outdoor things were before my kids started playing fall sports, so now everything revolves around their schedule, regardless of what football games are on...
 

TiderinAZ

1st Team
Sep 20, 2015
593
45
47
Carefree, AZ
Re: Cracks are forming is the Pac-12 Conference.

I have friends who are ASU alumni, with season tickets to the Sun Devils games.

They invited me to a game a few years ago. Well, they were very excited to show me their tailgating party, which turns out to be in the parking lot of the stadium - on asphalt - in Tempe - in September. It was very HOT.

As the game is getting ready to start, we are still in the parking lot, so I’m asking if they are going to the game? They finally sort of grudgingly go in.

The temperature was in the high 90s at kickoff at 7pm and probably closer to 110 inside the stadium. Needless to say, it was miserable! I lasted until halftime, when I finally walked to the concession area, to get some air and water. My friends and I finally bailed and went back to the tailgate, as the devils were getting blown out.

My friends and most of their group either stay in the parking lot the entire game or go for a bit of the game, for most games. They would rather sit in the hot parking lot and watch the game on tv and tailgate.

I’m telling you I have been to some hot games in Tuscaloosa, but that was unbearable. My friends invited me the next year and I politely declined.

Plus, it’s just sad to have this “asphalt jungle” experience at these urban schools.

We are so fortunate to have our beautiful University of Alabama! Roll Tide
 

KrAzY3

Hall of Fame
Jan 18, 2006
10,617
4,542
187
44
kraizy.art
Re: Cracks are forming is the Pac-12 Conference.

The same thing holding the Pac-12 back is also protecting them. They're still safer than the ACC and Big 12 if for purely geographic reasons.
 

uafan4life

Hall of Fame
Mar 30, 2001
15,615
7,449
287
43
Florence, AL
Memo to the Pac 12:

If you want to be as financially successful as the SEC, it starts with these three, simple steps:

1. Sell out and fill the stands for most of your games (conference and non-conference) in both your larger and smaller stadiums.
2. Turn your smaller stadiums into into larger stadiums.
3. Repeat step one.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

BamaInBham

All-American
Feb 14, 2007
4,467
2,116
187
Memo to the Pac 12:

If you want to be as financially successful as the SEC, it starts with these three, simple steps:

1. Sell out and fill the stands for most of your games (conference and non-conference) in both your larger and smaller stadiums.
2. Turn your smaller stadiums into into larger stadiums.
3. Repeat step one.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
The things you state are true, but the likelihood that they will be resolved is almost nil. Though the TZ/geography issue exists, IMO, the far greater issue is that, with a couple of exceptions, they simply do not care enough about college football. That affects more than just people in seats, but direct giving, TV eyeballs, website hits, merchandise sales, etc. I.e., money. They can't overcome that and the gap will likely widen rather than close.
 

BigGunn

1st Team
Dec 5, 2004
810
10
37
Pace, Florida
Re: Cracks are forming is the Pac-12 Conference.

True. In many areas of the South/SEC country, football is king. Out West, in many of the PAC 10 areas(UCLA, USC, Cal are in L.A......Stanford is in San Francisco metro area), there is just WAY too much going on to keep peoples' interests. There are very few SEC schools located in huge metro areas(Nashville, maybe??).
Cal definitely not in LA.
 

skrayper77

All-American
Sep 4, 2003
3,511
228
182
Re: Cracks are forming is the Pac-12 Conference.

I know most people here can't stand Colin Cowherd but he's been saying this for years about the "empty seats" at USC games, UCLA games and other PAC-12 games. People in the south take this as an insult (even though I really don't think that's what he's doing), but Cowherd has routinely said "There's more to do on the west coast than in the south." He gave an example for someone living in California and said "Someone can drive an hour or so north and get mountains and hiking, or an hour or so southwest and get the beautiful beaches and the ocean, along with all the other non sports entertainment that isn't present in the south."

I saw this first hand when an old HS classmate of mine married a guy from Washington state. She was born and raised in the south, a "southern girl" who grew up on hunting and fishing with her daddy, college football, friday night HS football and pep rallies etc. However, since she's gotten married and moved out west she's even admitted (via social media) that she doesn't keep up with college football near as much. Her and her husband do a lot of hiking, camping, they drive south into California and go to the beach. There's simply much more to do.
If I'm being blunt, you get all that in Virginia. The Deep South can lack the mountains, for the most part, but it's not a "California only" thing. We have Virginia Beach, myriad lakes and rivers, the mountains and the Shenandoah Valley, etc.

On the flip side, that MIGHT be why football is not NEARLY as big a deal this way (I live in the Shenandoah Valley, about 30 minutes from UVA) as it is just a couple of states South. I don't know though, I always assumed it had more to do with the product on the field than having "more stuff to do")
 

New Posts

TideFans.shop - NEW Stuff!

TideFans.shop - Get YOUR Bama Gear HERE!”></a>
<br />

<!--/ END TideFans.shop & item link \-->
<p style= Purchases made through our TideFans.shop and Amazon.com links may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.