So does the death of Star Wars start with Solo?

81usaf92 · May 22, 2018

Jon said:
I did too but ultimately TLJ just doesn't hold up. Still better than the prequals but only because they were so bad

as for SJW criticisms I have no care what some lonely Incel thinks of what direction Kennedy takes the series as long as it is good. Force Awakens had issues but was good TLJ had many more issues

For Solo. It looks to be a wreck. They fired the director, had to hire an acting coach mid production for the lead and it just looks bad. I watched him in another movie Beautiful Creatures (for the How did this get made podcast) and wow is he an awful actor. Do think Donald Glover will be great as Lando though

I thought the guy playing Han was good in “Hail Caesar” but it’s probably because he was playing a bad actor in that movie

MattinBama · May 22, 2018

DzynKingRTR said:
Well, I do wear it like a badge of honor. Plus it seems to really bother some people. I am like the Star Wars version of the people that always remind us they don’t watch the NFL. I am just reminding you just in case you forgot.

We get it. You're a Star Wars Vegan.

cbi1972 · May 22, 2018

I will form an opinion on this after I have had a chance to see it.

MattinBama · May 22, 2018

I was going to see it either way.... but I'll enjoy it a little bit more knowing some man babies out there won't like me seeing it.

I'm mostly there for Donald Glover as Lando and Emilia Clarke anyway.

Jon said:
I watched him in another movie Beautiful Creatures (for the How did this get made podcast) and wow is he an awful actor.

HDTGM is awesome. It's hard to fully judge someone working with material like that. Those types of movies are rough for just about everyone. I was honestly surprised when Solo started getting a little bit of positive buzz and the trailers looked decent after hearing about all of the problems the production was having. Every now and then those changes end up making a much better movie despite it looking bad. We shall see.

AlexanderFan · May 22, 2018

MattinBama said:
We get it. You're a Star Wars Vegan.

Who does CrossFit

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

MattinBama · May 22, 2018

AlexanderFan said:
Who does CrossFit

I very nearly added that in the original post, lol.

crimsonaudio · May 22, 2018

If they didn't decide to boycott after the prequels then they're lying - they'll see it.

I don't care, it's nothing sacred to me - I just want to be entertained.

81usaf92 · May 22, 2018

crimsonaudio said:
If they didn't decide to boycott after the prequels then they're lying - they'll see it.

I don't care, it's nothing sacred to me - I just want to be entertained.

That’s a little different.

1) Lucas was in charge not Kennedy and Lucas was seen as capable of a great idea that can continue their childhood while Kennedy is seen as ruining their childhood

2) Many SW fans actually liked TPM when it came out. It wasn’t until AOC that most folks realized how bad it was and they were too invested and the movie that everyone was wanting to see was coming up next.

3) It wasn’t a SW every year thing.

4) Social Media wasn’t as big and relevant in the early 2000’s as it is now.

I think the boycotters are a serious and committed minority that will affect overall sales but won’t bring the mouse to its knees like they think they are.

crimsonaudio · May 22, 2018

81usaf92 said:
I think the boycotters are a serious and committed minority that will affect overall sales but won’t bring the mouse to its knees like they think they are.

you're right in that it's tiny percentage of people. A VAST majority of people who will go see this - myself included - just want to see an entertaining movie. And that's what they'll get.

I'll bet dollars to donuts this boycott won't even amount to a blip in overall dollars made. This a billion dollar/movie series at this point and a few million here or there just won't register. Heck, as much maligned as TLA was it generated over $1.3 billion in the box office.

81usaf92 · May 22, 2018

crimsonaudio said:
you're right in that it's tiny percentage of people. A VAST majority of people who will go see this - myself included - just want to see an entertaining movie. And that's what they'll get.

I'll bet dollars to donuts this boycott won't even amount to a blip in overall dollars made. This a billion dollar/movie series at this point and a few million here or there just won't register. Heck, as much maligned as TLA was it generated over $1.3 billion in the box office.

That’s still a considerable dip from 2 billion from TFA. Granted I think the word got out that TLJ was an extremely flawed and controversial movement so “moderates” decided it was better for DVD or On Demand than to fork up a lot of money to see it. But I think repeat viewings is critical to SW so I guess you can factor these man babies into that equation.

I think someone pointed out that the problem with SW is that they don’t have the loyal fan base that Marvel does and they have to take controversial steps to stay relevant and that is why the “purists” are getting all bent out of shape. The person also said that Kennedy hasn’t handled TLJ backlash correctly either because Disney is fearful that TLJ will be viewed in the same light as BvS in that it was a tremendous controversial leap that fell flat

But I just thought it was something that will be fun to watch out for because the build up has been fun to watch between both groups.

FWIW I fully expect Disney to win, but is it by enough that they don’t have to rethink some things is the bigger question. I don’t expect a Ghostbusters like effective protest in that the fans successfully shut the new franchise down by making it lose money , but it is possible that they make Disney think about things by denying them the loyal repeat viewings attached with SW sales.

chanson78 · May 22, 2018

cbi1972 · May 22, 2018

81usaf92 said:
I think someone pointed out that the problem with SW is that they don’t have the loyal fan base that Marvel does and they have to take controversial steps to stay relevant and that is why the “purists” are getting all bent out of shape.

I would say that Marvel doesn't have the loyal fan base that Star Wars has.
They have been doing a great job with the Marvel IP lately, but it's not because of broad and deep loyalty to Marvel, whose fanboys are much more niche.

Sony turned down the movie rights to the Marvel Cinematic Universe, which they could have had for $25 million.

Sony could have jump-started the superhero boom early, and enjoyed the fruits of that success for itself. Yet, that idea ignores a number of realities that would argue otherwise: It wasn’t simply that Iron Man, Thor and Captain America were fated to be successes, and to build a massive brand in the process — their success comes from the fact that Marvel made the right creative decisions in hiring the people responsible for those movies, cast the right actors and managed to appeal to the mass market without losing track of the elements that would appeal to the fanboy faithful — indeed, would manage to transfer that level of devotion outside of the existing fan base and onto the mass audience as a whole. There’s no guarantee that Sony would have been able to repeat that trick.

Marvel has done such a great job that they turned Guardians of the Galaxy, the bottom of the barrel in terms of intellectual property, into a blockbuster series and a household name. Almost nobody had heard of that before James Gunn got hold of it.

81usaf92 · May 22, 2018

cbi1972 said:
I would say that Marvel doesn't have the loyal fan base that Star Wars has.
They have been doing a great job with the Marvel IP lately, but it's not because of broad and deep loyalty to Marvel, whose fanboys are much more niche.

Sony turned down the movie rights to the Marvel Cinematic Universe, which they could have had for $25 million.

Marvel has done such a great job that they turned Guardians of the Galaxy, the bottom of the barrel in terms of intellectual property, into a blockbuster series and a household name. Almost nobody had heard of that before James Gunn got hold of it.

Idk. If you are talking about Marvel as whole then yes SW as a whole wins, but if you are talking about movies then the MCU is far more loyal than this generation’s Star Wars films. There is far less fallout over a bad MCU film than a bad SW film. Yeah the MCU has never hit a 2 billion mark but neither has a SW movie that didn’t have a 10+ year break since the last one.

Yeah they are both highly profitable but if I was to invest in 1 or the other then I’m picking the MCU because they just acquired the XMen to go along with their already very lucrative properties.

cbi1972 · May 22, 2018

81usaf92 said:
Idk. If you are talking about Marvel as whole then yes SW as a whole wins, but if you are talking about movies then the MCU is far more loyal than this generation’s Star Wars films. There is far less fallout over a bad MCU film than a bad SW film. Yeah the MCU has never hit a 2 billion mark but neither has a SW movie that didn’t have a 10+ year break since the last one.

Yeah they are both highly profitable but if I was to invest in 1 or the other then I’m picking the MCU because they just acquired the XMen to go along with their already very lucrative properties.

I don't recall there being a truly bad MCU film to even test this hypothesis. They are certainly building loyalty through their current high quality efforts, but they aren't able to just milk their audience because they know they'll see whatever garbage they put out there just because it has Iron Man in it. Iron Man wasn't even a big deal until they made it one with fantastic production value.

I'd pick either Star Wars or MCU right now to generate guaranteed returns. The loyalty question comes when the creative direction changes and quality suffers. I don't think Marvel is any more capable of selling junk than Star Wars, and I think they might be worse at it.

81usaf92 · May 22, 2018

chanson78 said:

Lol

81usaf92 · May 22, 2018

cbi1972 said:
I don't recall there being a truly bad MCU film to even test this hypothesis. They are certainly building loyalty through their current high quality efforts, but they aren't able to just milk their audience because they know they'll see whatever garbage they put out there just because it has Iron Man in it. Iron Man wasn't even a big deal until they made it one with fantastic production value.

I'd pick either Star Wars or MCU right now to generate guaranteed returns. The loyalty question comes when the creative direction changes and quality suffers. I don't think Marvel is any more capable of selling junk than Star Wars, and I think they might be worse at it.

I don’t think the MCU has had an epically bad movie like SW but they have had bad movies. Thor 2 and Iron Man 2 & 3 are pretty bad. But they all did pretty well.

Also consider when Lucas was in control he withheld a lot of stuff from toys, games, and films for years and when he allowed them back fans ate them up. Now you can find just about anything you want.

Point is the belly aching for SW didn’t start until after the 90’s and has increased because “purists” haven’t got their way and it’s not as special as it once was. Compare an Avengers movie event to A regular SW event and we see something totally different.

cbi1972 · May 22, 2018

81usaf92 said:
I don’t think the MCU has had an epically bad movie like SW but they have had bad movies. Thor 2 and Iron Man 2 & 3 are pretty bad. But they all did pretty well.

Also consider when Lucas was in control he withheld a lot of stuff from toys, games, and films for years and when he allowed them back fans ate them up. Now you can find just about anything you want.

Point is the belly aching for SW didn’t start until after the 90’s and has increased because “purists” haven’t got their way and it’s not as special as it once was. Compare an Avengers movie event to A regular SW event and we see something totally different.

I don't know what you even mean by the difference between an Avengers event and a Star Wars event.

Bellyaching about the creative direction of a movie franchise is done because of investment in the franchise. I don't know whether you count that as loyalty or disloyalty. I don't know too many people who are "done with Star Wars," but I do know some who say they hate certain movies, which I would say indicates they still care about the franchise as a whole, and if that criticism counts as disloyalty, would be right back on board with another good movie.

It's when they stop seeing the movies and are indifferent to them that you find out how disloyal a fan base is, sort of like what DC is doing.

I'd say that the masses aren't loyal in general, they just want to be entertained. The hardcore fans can go either way. There are comic book fans who hate what they are doing with the X-Men movies, but those movies are still wildly popular, and creating a new fan base alongside the comic fans.

81usaf92 · May 22, 2018

cbi1972 said:
I don't know what you even mean by the difference between an Avengers event and a Star Wars event.

Bellyaching about the creative direction of a movie franchise is done because of investment in the franchise. I don't know whether you count that as loyalty or disloyalty. I don't know too many people who are "done with Star Wars," but I do know some who say they hate certain movies, which I would say indicates they still care about the franchise as a whole, and if that criticism counts as disloyalty, would be right back on board with another good movie.

It's when they stop seeing the movies and are indifferent to them that you find out how disloyal a fan base is, sort of like what DC is doing.

I'd say that the masses aren't loyal in general, they just want to be entertained. The hardcore fans can go either way. There are comic book fans who hate what they are doing with the X-Men movies, but those movies are still wildly popular, and creating a new fan base alongside the comic fans.

My point is that SW after their initial relaunch (TPM and TFA) come in with whopping numbers but their sequels after that start to sputter. They start to feel like minor summer movies or popcorn flicks whereas Avengers feels like mega blockbusters and you safely know they are hitting big numbers. Yeah TLJ mad 1.3 B but that’s only ahead of Civil War in terms of Avengers team up and nowhere close to Infinity War or Avengers 1.

I think Solo may be the test to see what is more loyal. It’s the most loved character with his standalone movie. If it makes the 1 billion mark then we know SW is still very strong, if not then we can probably say it is reeling from TLJ. There is no reason on paper that it shouldn’t be at least at the sales of Rogue One. IMO

RollTide_HTTR · May 22, 2018

81usaf92 said:
My point is that SW after their initial relaunch (TPM and TFA) come in with whopping numbers but their sequels after that start to sputter. They start to feel like minor summer movies or popcorn flicks whereas Avengers feels like mega blockbusters and you safely know they are hitting big numbers. Yeah TLJ mad 1.3 B but that’s only ahead of Civil War in terms of Avengers team up and nowhere close to Infinity War or Avengers 1.

I think Solo may be the test to see what is more loyal. It’s the most loved character with his standalone movie. If it makes the 1 billion mark then we know SW is still very strong, if not then we can probably say it is reeling from TLJ. There is no reason on paper that it shouldn’t be at least at the sales of Rogue One. IMO

I don't think you can make that clear of a conclusion from Solo. There have clearly been other issues in the making of this movie and Rotten Tomatoes scores seem like they impact box office numbers to some degree (Solo only has a 70% critic score right now).

tusks_n_raider · May 22, 2018

crimsonaudio said:
you're right in that it's tiny percentage of people. A VAST majority of people who will go see this - myself included - just want to see an entertaining movie. And that's what they'll get.

I'll bet dollars to donuts this boycott won't even amount to a blip in overall dollars made. This a billion dollar/movie series at this point and a few million here or there just won't register. Heck, as much maligned as TLA was it generated over $1.3 billion in the box office.

We will see soon. I'm a member of several Star Wars online communities and I'd say that at least 30% of the total fanbase will Boycott Solo based on my interactions.

That's roughly 43.33 Million people who watched TLJ but won't watch Solo. That would amount to a $390 Million Total dollar Box Office drop.... most of which will affect the opening numbers.

It's trending way down on Rotten Tomatoes with audience interest being only 40%. The original tracking has it opening with $150 Mil over a 4 day Holiday weekend but that has dropped to $120-130 Mil....

What if it opens with $60-90 Million instead based off Boycott estimates? Yeah that's still a lot of money but it would be enough of a disappointment for them to maybe take a second look at their current practices.

So does the death of Star Wars start with Solo?

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