Early Heisman Favorites - Page 2
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  1. #14
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    Re: Early Heisman Favorites

    Quote Originally Posted by B1GTide View Post
    I agree that Tua can still win it, but he isn't going to have a 400 yard game, much less a 500 yard game.
    I have a hard time believing we will be in nearly enough close game this season for Tua to win it. We shouldn't be seriously pushed to our limits until Auburn.

    Maybe if our secondary is a lot shakier than we are expecting and we have to score more than the last few years?

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  3. #15
    BamaNation Hall of Fame JustNeedMe81's Avatar
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    Re: Early Heisman Favorites

    Tua isn't probably going to win, but if he can consistently throw 200-300 yards each game, then maybe.. but For SEC QB to win Heisman, their team have to go undefeated and dominate opponents to get consideration.
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  4. #16
    BamaNation Hall of Fame BamaMoon's Avatar
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    Re: Early Heisman Favorites

    Quote Originally Posted by B1GTide View Post
    I agree that Tua can still win it, but he isn't going to have a 400 yard game, much less a 500 yard game.
    If I was a betting man I might take you up on that. In 12 regular season games I'm pretty confident he'll have a 400 yard game. 500 wouldn't surprise me (Blake Sims had 445 in a game against Florida). I realize it's uncommon, especially for Bama QBs, but I don't think we've had a QB like Tua...not even AJ.

  5. #17
    BamaNation Hall of Fame B1GTide's Avatar
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    Re: Early Heisman Favorites

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaMoon View Post
    If I was a betting man I might take you up on that. In 12 regular season games I'm pretty confident he'll have a 400 yard game. 500 wouldn't surprise me (Blake Sims had 445 in a game against Florida). I realize it's uncommon, especially for Bama QBs, but I don't think we've had a QB like Tua...not even AJ.
    With those RBs, I just don't see it. Saban isn't going to ignore the best offensive backfield in the country.

  6. #18
    BamaNation Hall of Fame BamaMoon's Avatar
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    Re: Early Heisman Favorites

    Quote Originally Posted by B1GTide View Post
    With those RBs, I just don't see it. Saban isn't going to ignore the best offensive backfield in the country.
    I don't think so either. Over the last 4-5 seasons with Jalen, Coker, Sims and even AJ, we've never averaged over 500 yards a game in total offense, but we consistently averaged 430-450 a game with the highest year being 475ish IIRC. Remember these are just averages. Most of those years our offense was pretty well divided with roughly half the yards in rushing and half in passing. So if you look at most games our QB will have 200-300 a game in passing.

    I think our offense might just average 500 yards a game this year, so most games I could see us having 250-300 yards in passing and about the same give or take a few yards in rushing.

    So all it would take in a typical game for Tua to go over 400 or even 500 is a couple of long receptions along with the other typical chunk plays we'll be getting with him slinging it all over the place. If the last play of the year is any hint, I think he may have a few more of those up his sleeve.

  7. #19
    BamaNation Hall of Fame B1GTide's Avatar
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    Re: Early Heisman Favorites

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaMoon View Post
    I don't think so either. Over the last 4-5 seasons with Jalen, Coker, Sims and even AJ, we've never averaged over 500 yards a game in total offense, but we consistently averaged 430-450 a game with the highest year being 475ish IIRC. Remember these are just averages. Most of those years our offense was pretty well divided with roughly half the yards in rushing and half in passing. So if you look at most games our QB will have 200-300 a game in passing.

    I think our offense might just average 500 yards a game this year, so most games I could see us having 250-300 yards in passing and about the same give or take a few yards in rushing.

    So all it would take in a typical game for Tua to go over 400 or even 500 is a couple of long receptions along with the other typical chunk plays we'll be getting with him slinging it all over the place. If the last play of the year is any hint, I think he may have a few more of those up his sleeve.
    I get it, but it would take an anomaly. Remember, when Sims was your QB you have your worst starting RB and your worst run blocking o-line under Saban. Your entire offense was Cooper.

  8. #20
    BamaNation Hall of Fame deliveryman35's Avatar
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    Re: Early Heisman Favorites

    I agree with Bigtide, Saban will run a balanced O which will keep Tua from racking up pinball machine type numbers. Because of that alone I donít think he will win the heisman. In fact, Iíd lay odds that Kyler Murray will win it at Oklahoma before Tua does.
    "Football is a hard game. These spread coaches forget that. Until good defenses remind them." Gene Stallings

  9. #21
    BamaNation First Team BamaFanatJSU's Avatar
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    Re: Early Heisman Favorites

    Quote Originally Posted by B1GTide View Post
    I get it, but it would take an anomaly. Remember, when Sims was your QB you have your worst starting RB and your worst run blocking o-line under Saban. Your entire offense was Cooper.
    Worst, I guess, is relative in this context. In T.J. Yeldon and Derrick Henry (a future Heisman winner, no less), you had guys that finished 21 and 10 yards (respectively) away from potentially having TWO 1000 yard rushers in the same backfield. I'm not sure that saying our entire 2014 offense was Amari Cooper is particularly accurate here.

  10. #22
    BamaNation All-American tusks_n_raider's Avatar
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    Re: Early Heisman Favorites

    AJ was a Heisman Runner-up just 5 years ago.

    Tua could potentially and most likely be even better than AJ and will definitely have a better WR corp from top to bottom.

    Jmo but if he starts all 12 games + the SECCG he's going to run away with the Award.

    If you could guarantee me no injury issues I'd bet money on it right now.

  11. #23
    BamaNation Hall of Fame B1GTide's Avatar
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    Re: Early Heisman Favorites

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaFanatJSU View Post
    Worst, I guess, is relative in this context. In T.J. Yeldon and Derrick Henry (a future Heisman winner, no less), you had guys that finished 21 and 10 yards (respectively) away from potentially having TWO 1000 yard rushers in the same backfield. I'm not sure that saying our entire 2014 offense was Amari Cooper is particularly accurate here.
    Henry was totally wasted that year. It was Yeldon, and he fumbled more than any other Saban RB. No idea what Saban was thinking there with Henry on the roster. But Cooper was the offense. Take away Cooper and your offense stopped because Yeldon could be shut down.

    ETA - just looked up Cooper's stats that year - 124 catches for 1,727 yards and 16 receiving touchdowns. Let that sink in.
    Last edited by B1GTide; June 11th, 2018 at 09:02 PM.

  12. #24
    BamaNation First Team BamaFanatJSU's Avatar
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    Re: Early Heisman Favorites

    Quote Originally Posted by B1GTide View Post
    Henry was totally wasted that year. It was Yeldon, and he fumbled more than any other Saban RB. No idea what Saban was thinking there with Henry on the roster. But Cooper was the offense. Take away Cooper and your offense stopped because Yeldon could be shut down.
    ETA - just looked up Cooper's stats that year - 124 catches for 1,727 yards and 16 receiving touchdowns. Let that sink in.
    I'm not saying that Cooper wasn't absolutely dominant (he was - particularly on a volume basis); I'm simply saying that the rushing attack wasn't as bad as you're implying.

    Let's consider some additional data points:
    - Yeldon clearly struggled with fumbles early in his career, but he only fumbled twice in 2014 while Henry fumbled once (and they both lost one).
    - Henry averaged 0.8 yards per carry more than Yeldon in 2014, but one could argue that difference could likely be chalked up to the fact that an often-fresher Henry was the back used late in games to drive the dagger into already-exhausted and out-matched defenses.
    - Don't get me wrong, Amari is incredible (despite his rather pedestrian career in the NFL thus far - here's hoping for a 2018 rebound!), but that doesn't mean he was head-and-shoulders above the rest of the team in terms of production-per-touch. Actually, he simply out-volumed everyone else. While I can't find target statistics for 2014 (I figure he got the lion's share of those as well), he caught 43% of all the passes pulled in by Bama receivers and accounted for 44% of all of Bama's receiving yards - an average of 13.9 yards per catch. The rest of UA's backs and receivers had 2163 yards receiving on 166 catches - an average of 13.0 yards per catch. Thus, the rest of Bama's receiving core was basically as efficient and effective on a per-catch basis as Amari was. [Yes, one can also make the argument that Amari drew tougher coverage; one could counter-argue that that number includes dump-offs to backs that hurt per-catch averages, but this has to end somewhere].

    That's a lot of numbers, but it all circles back to my original counter to your original point (and again, I'm not saying that Amari wasn't phenomenal): saying that the running game in 2014 was pedestrian simply isn't accurate. Having two thousand yard rushers forced teams to load the box and helped to open up lanes and space for Blake to air it out (mostly to Amari) on a record-setting level. He certainly wouldn't have been able to do that if teams were dropping six and seven into coverage on most plays.

  13. #25
    BamaNation Hall of Fame B1GTide's Avatar
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    Re: Early Heisman Favorites

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaFanatJSU View Post
    That's a lot of numbers, but it all circles back to my original counter to your original point (and again, I'm not saying that Amari wasn't phenomenal): saying that the running game in 2014 was pedestrian simply isn't accurate. Having two thousand yard rushers forced teams to load the box and helped to open up lanes and space for Blake to air it out (mostly to Amari) on a record-setting level. He certainly wouldn't have been able to do that if teams were dropping six and seven into coverage on most plays.
    But they didn't load the box in 2014. I know that Ohio State didn't load the box. OSU's strategy was simple - take away Cooper. If Henry was your starting RB that season, even with that o-line, the season stats would have looked very different all around. Sims/Cooper never have those monster stats - and you probably win the CFPNC.

    This year you have an amazing backfield. I just don't see Tua have a Sims type of year. But I concede that it is possible. As long as you win, I really don't care how it gets done, but I would much prefer to see a balances attack.

  14. #26
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    Re: Early Heisman Favorites

    Quote Originally Posted by B1GTide View Post
    I get it, but it would take an anomaly. Remember, when Sims was your QB you have your worst starting RB and your worst run blocking o-line under Saban. Your entire offense was Cooper.
    Are you saying Terry Grant is better than Yeldon?

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