Early Heisman Favorites

BamaFanatJSU

1st Team
Apr 24, 2008
650
146
67
Rainbow City, AL
I get it, but it would take an anomaly. Remember, when Sims was your QB you have your worst starting RB and your worst run blocking o-line under Saban. Your entire offense was Cooper.
Worst, I guess, is relative in this context. In T.J. Yeldon and Derrick Henry (a future Heisman winner, no less), you had guys that finished 21 and 10 yards (respectively) away from potentially having TWO 1000 yard rushers in the same backfield. I'm not sure that saying our entire 2014 offense was Amari Cooper is particularly accurate here.
 

tusks_n_raider

Hall of Fame
May 13, 2009
12,130
12,211
187
Mobile, AL
AJ was a Heisman Runner-up just 5 years ago.

Tua could potentially and most likely be even better than AJ and will definitely have a better WR corp from top to bottom.

Jmo but if he starts all 12 games + the SECCG he's going to run away with the Award.

If you could guarantee me no injury issues I'd bet money on it right now.
 

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
45,499
46,842
187
Worst, I guess, is relative in this context. In T.J. Yeldon and Derrick Henry (a future Heisman winner, no less), you had guys that finished 21 and 10 yards (respectively) away from potentially having TWO 1000 yard rushers in the same backfield. I'm not sure that saying our entire 2014 offense was Amari Cooper is particularly accurate here.
Henry was totally wasted that year. It was Yeldon, and he fumbled more than any other Saban RB. No idea what Saban was thinking there with Henry on the roster. But Cooper was the offense. Take away Cooper and your offense stopped because Yeldon could be shut down.

ETA - just looked up Cooper's stats that year - 124 catches for 1,727 yards and 16 receiving touchdowns. Let that sink in.
 
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BamaFanatJSU

1st Team
Apr 24, 2008
650
146
67
Rainbow City, AL
Henry was totally wasted that year. It was Yeldon, and he fumbled more than any other Saban RB. No idea what Saban was thinking there with Henry on the roster. But Cooper was the offense. Take away Cooper and your offense stopped because Yeldon could be shut down.
ETA - just looked up Cooper's stats that year - 124 catches for 1,727 yards and 16 receiving touchdowns. Let that sink in.
I'm not saying that Cooper wasn't absolutely dominant (he was - particularly on a volume basis); I'm simply saying that the rushing attack wasn't as bad as you're implying.

Let's consider some additional data points:
- Yeldon clearly struggled with fumbles early in his career, but he only fumbled twice in 2014 while Henry fumbled once (and they both lost one).
- Henry averaged 0.8 yards per carry more than Yeldon in 2014, but one could argue that difference could likely be chalked up to the fact that an often-fresher Henry was the back used late in games to drive the dagger into already-exhausted and out-matched defenses.
- Don't get me wrong, Amari is incredible (despite his rather pedestrian career in the NFL thus far - here's hoping for a 2018 rebound!), but that doesn't mean he was head-and-shoulders above the rest of the team in terms of production-per-touch. Actually, he simply out-volumed everyone else. While I can't find target statistics for 2014 (I figure he got the lion's share of those as well), he caught 43% of all the passes pulled in by Bama receivers and accounted for 44% of all of Bama's receiving yards - an average of 13.9 yards per catch. The rest of UA's backs and receivers had 2163 yards receiving on 166 catches - an average of 13.0 yards per catch. Thus, the rest of Bama's receiving core was basically as efficient and effective on a per-catch basis as Amari was. [Yes, one can also make the argument that Amari drew tougher coverage; one could counter-argue that that number includes dump-offs to backs that hurt per-catch averages, but this has to end somewhere].

That's a lot of numbers, but it all circles back to my original counter to your original point (and again, I'm not saying that Amari wasn't phenomenal): saying that the running game in 2014 was pedestrian simply isn't accurate. Having two thousand yard rushers forced teams to load the box and helped to open up lanes and space for Blake to air it out (mostly to Amari) on a record-setting level. He certainly wouldn't have been able to do that if teams were dropping six and seven into coverage on most plays.
 

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
45,499
46,842
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That's a lot of numbers, but it all circles back to my original counter to your original point (and again, I'm not saying that Amari wasn't phenomenal): saying that the running game in 2014 was pedestrian simply isn't accurate. Having two thousand yard rushers forced teams to load the box and helped to open up lanes and space for Blake to air it out (mostly to Amari) on a record-setting level. He certainly wouldn't have been able to do that if teams were dropping six and seven into coverage on most plays.
But they didn't load the box in 2014. I know that Ohio State didn't load the box. OSU's strategy was simple - take away Cooper. If Henry was your starting RB that season, even with that o-line, the season stats would have looked very different all around. Sims/Cooper never have those monster stats - and you probably win the CFPNC.

This year you have an amazing backfield. I just don't see Tua have a Sims type of year. But I concede that it is possible. As long as you win, I really don't care how it gets done, but I would much prefer to see a balances attack.
 

drwho

Suspended
Dec 11, 2013
1,685
0
55
If Jalen is playing as his backup then Tua will come out early in blowouts to keep Jalen happy. That will hurt Tua's stats. Same if Jones is the backup as Saban will want to get him live game reps.
Seeing how last year played out, it would be imperative to get Jones as many game reps as possible, should he be thrust into a tight game.
 

RedWave

All-SEC
Sep 26, 2000
1,579
3
0
Arlington, Tx
AJ was a Heisman Runner-up just 5 years ago.

Tua could potentially and most likely be even better than AJ and will definitely have a better WR corp from top to bottom.

Jmo but if he starts all 12 games + the SECCG he's going to run away with the Award.

If you could guarantee me no injury issues I'd bet money on it right now.
I would love to have that guarantee, regardless of the Heisman race.
 

RollTide_HTTR

Hall of Fame
Feb 22, 2017
8,768
6,532
187
If I wasn't convinced Najee is going to break out I would think Damien Harris would be a better Heisman candidate than Tua tbh.
 

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
Apr 1, 2004
20,932
15,934
282
Boone, NC
Henry was totally wasted that year. It was Yeldon, and he fumbled more than any other Saban RB. No idea what Saban was thinking there with Henry on the roster. But Cooper was the offense. Take away Cooper and your offense stopped because Yeldon could be shut down.

ETA - just looked up Cooper's stats that year - 124 catches for 1,727 yards and 16 receiving touchdowns. Let that sink in.
IIRC, it wasn't Henry's talent that kept him off the field, but his ability to pick up on blocking assignments. He played in a system in HS where he was given the ball almost every play and never learned to do what he had to learn at Bama.
 

RedWave

All-SEC
Sep 26, 2000
1,579
3
0
Arlington, Tx
IIRC, it wasn't Henry's talent that kept him off the field, but his ability to pick up on blocking assignments. He played in a system in HS where he was given the ball almost every play and never learned to do what he had to learn at Bama.
Yet we were all clamoring for more of him after what he had done in the Sugar Bowl against Oklahoma the year before.
 

UAH

All-American
Nov 27, 2017
3,595
4,129
187
Henry was totally wasted that year. It was Yeldon, and he fumbled more than any other Saban RB. No idea what Saban was thinking there with Henry on the roster. But Cooper was the offense. Take away Cooper and your offense stopped because Yeldon could be shut down.

ETA - just looked up Cooper's stats that year - 124 catches for 1,727 yards and 16 receiving touchdowns. Let that sink in.
I have not understood your criticism of Yeldon. I went back to look at his career highlights and come away a bit incredulous as to how anyone would say that he wasn't a great option for receiving out of the backfield and as a breakaway rushing threat. As a pure coincidence I saw Eli Gold's series of his Top 5 Alabama calls and number 4 was Yeldon's screen play to beat LSU. A good fried of mine said Yeldon was always one step from breaking it. I agree with that! My perspective was that Yeldon showed up for every game whether injured or not and was an absolute warrior.

That isn't to say that DH wasn't phenomenal but the pair come with different capabilities.
 

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
45,499
46,842
187
I have not understood your criticism of Yeldon. I went back to look at his career highlights and come away a bit incredulous as to how anyone would say that he wasn't a great option for receiving out of the backfield and as a breakaway rushing threat. As a pure coincidence I saw Eli Gold's series of his Top 5 Alabama calls and number 4 was Yeldon's screen play to beat LSU. A good fried of mine said Yeldon was always one step from breaking it. I agree with that! My perspective was that Yeldon showed up for every game whether injured or not and was an absolute warrior.

That isn't to say that DH wasn't phenomenal but the pair come with different capabilities.
To be clear, I have never said that he was a bad RB - just the worst starting RB in the Saban era, and I am including 2007. Henry on the bench with Yeldon as the starter was a horrifyingly bad decision by Saban in 2014 and cost you a championship (while allowing my Buckeyes to win one).

You realize that Henry was the best RB in the history of HS football, right? And, as it turns out, he was also the best RB in the history of college football - but he only got to start one season. That is insane.
 

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
45,499
46,842
187
Correct me if I'm wrong, but was Henry supposed to learn how to pass block and etc? Never learned how to do it at HS level?
He still can't pass block. The Titans don't seem to care. :biggrin:

Also, Alexander was a league MVP and he never even tried to block a pass rusher.
 

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