News Article: Julio miffed...

CrimsonForce · Jul 24, 2018

Bamabuzzard said:
He's become a filthy rich man no matter what you compare it to. $63 million/$85 million is still $63/$85 million dollars and that isn't even considering the millions he's made on merchandise deals and other non-football streams of revenue. The value of those dollars do not become less because another WR is making more. I understand Julio's line of thinking. But his line of thinking is being done in a vacuum. If we want to talk about "industry standards" or "common practices". Then anyone can easily point to the fact that it is not common for NFL teams to re-do contracts with this many years left on it and there are very sound business reasons behind that practice. Is Julio more valuable than Landry? Yep. But this is more of a case of what Landry's agent got for Landry due to dealing with a team who has historically made atrocious football moves across the board. Than a case of the Falcons "doing Julio wrong".

Using your accountant example I can tell you exactly what would happen because it's been a real life one for me over the course of my accounting career. If I were to walk into by boss' office and express my thoughts on my pay he would then turn to me and say- "We will revisit this when we do yearly performance reviews." Because that is the time when employers (or the one's I've worked for) have designated as the time to discuss merit raises and employee terms/contracts. Not halfway through the year. The same goes with Julio. His employer has appointed a time in which they are willing to discuss new contracts and basically by Julio signing his contract he also agreed to those terms. Now the employer has at their discretion to opt to begin these talks a year early. But that is the employer's option and isn't something they are contractually obligated to do.

Here's the thing though - there's not just one way to negotiate. IRT the example you gave when your employer stated they would only discuss salary increases at a yearly review; I've had the exact opposite happen to me recently. I talked to my supervisor about a raise to bring me in line with industry standard and they gave me a generous raise - and then 2 months later was my merit/anniversary raise and I got my scheduled merit raise also. So, all that to say there's not just one way to negotiate. Some players report to camp while negotiating something like this and some don't. I do agree that having 3 years left on the contract isn't a good look. IMO there's substance to both sides of the argument. If he misses an actual game over this then I'll jump on the "I've lost respect for Julio bandwagon" but until then it's just negotiating..

Power Eye · Jul 24, 2018

I'm in the minority on this, but I don't have a problem with what Julio is doing, and that's coming from a Falcons fan. I understand the frustration that he isn't living to the terms of his contract if he actually misses games, but where is the outcry when teams cut players with years left on their contracts? Aren't the teams basically doing the same thing? It is an NFL standard that teams will cut under-performing players once the guaranteed money is exhausted, yet no one bats an eye.

I know these are uncharted waters he is in with 3 years left, but I think we will see more and more of this as we get closer to when the new CBA will be negotiated in a couple of years, which will most likely result in a holdout/lockout. It is only a select few players in the league that have the leverage on teams to do this and I think Julio is one of them. Is it selfish? Absolutely, but when it comes to your livelihood and how much money you earn then who isn't selfish in that aspect of life. Also, Julio did participate with Matt Ryan and the other offensive skill position players in their informal training session a couple of weeks ago. By doing so, I think he was sending the message that he is dedicated to his teammates, but his only negotiating chip is holding out of camp and preseason. I hope it doesn't spill over into the season, but if it does it does.

Bamabuzzard · Jul 24, 2018

CrimsonForce said:
Here's the thing though - there's not just one way to negotiate. IRT the example you gave when your employer stated they would only discuss salary increases at a yearly review; I've had the exact opposite happen to me recently. I talked to my supervisor about a raise to bring me in line with industry standard and they gave me a generous raise - and then 2 months later was my merit/anniversary raise and I got my scheduled merit raise also. So, all that to say there's not just one way to negotiate. Some players report to camp while negotiating something like this and some don't. I do agree that having 3 years left on the contract isn't a good look. IMO there's substance to both sides of the argument. If he misses an actual game over this then I'll jump on the "I've lost respect for Julio bandwagon" but until then it's just negotiating..

And what would you have done if his initial response was what I received? Would you have continued to badger him, not come to work, go above his head? Honestly, what would you have done?

FThomas · Jul 24, 2018

Power Eye said:
I'm in the minority on this, but I don't have a problem with what Julio is doing, and that's coming from a Falcons fan. I understand the frustration that he isn't living to the terms of his contract if he actually misses games, but where is the outcry when teams cut players with years left on their contracts? Aren't the teams basically doing the same thing? It is an NFL standard that teams will cut under-performing players once the guaranteed money is exhausted, yet no one bats an eye.

I know these are uncharted waters he is in with 3 years left, but I think we will see more and more of this as we get closer to when the new CBA will be negotiated in a couple of years, which will most likely result in a holdout/lockout. It is only a select few players in the league that have the leverage on teams to do this and I think Julio is one of them. Is it selfish? Absolutely, but when it comes to your livelihood and how much money you earn then who isn't selfish in that aspect of life. Also, Julio did participate with Matt Ryan and the other offensive skill position players in their informal training session a couple of weeks ago. By doing so, I think he was sending the message that he is dedicated to his teammates, but his only negotiating chip is holding out of camp and preseason. I hope it doesn't spill over into the season, but if it does it does.

I agree with you on that. It is a common, standard practice for teams to cut players who have more years on their contracts, because the contracts are not guaranteed. Folks say negotiate a guaranteed contract, but that is not something easily achieved. Teams refuse to do so: citing injury, or lack of motivation, and a host of other justifications. The CBA also has a number of provisions that make it difficult to obtain a guaranteed contract. By practice, the employer can then cut folks without paying them (for example, the full amount of a guaranteed contract would have to be placed in escrow... owners don't want to do this).

If the NFL doesn't want to have guaranteed contracts, it has to accept that these types of disputes will arise.

https://deadspin.com/why-only-the-nfl-doesnt-guarantee-contracts-1797020799

CrimsonForce · Jul 24, 2018

Bamabuzzard said:
And what would you have done if his initial response was what I received? Would you have continued to badger him, not come to work, go above his head? Honestly, what would you have done?

Yea, I mentioned that in my previous response that those of us who work in the real world couldn't "hold out" and not show up to work. I had another offer in hand so if my company didn't want to pay me what I thought was fair I was going to give my 2 weeks and take the other offer. I didn't lay out the conversation as a "pay me or else" but just brought up relevant factors to back up what I was asking for and they agreed. I realize that's not the exact same situation as Julio but I just brought up my experience as an anecdotal example that there's not just one way to negotiate something..

Special K · Jul 24, 2018

“But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’"

TomFromBama · Jul 24, 2018

JustNeedMe81 said:
This isn't a good look for him period.

No it's not.

But in his industry, the employers don't really care if their players "look" good - they care what the player PRODUCES.

How many current NFL players have beaten the living "Blank" out of women? That's not a "good look" either - but if the player produces enough on the field, and ESPECIALLY if his agent can get the woman to "Settle" and drop the criminal charges, how many of those guys go right on playing? 99%?

So I'm NOT saying it's "Right" or that it's a good thing. I'm just saying "It IS what it IS".

Julio is in the position of a man with a money tree in his back yard. And every time he shakes the tree, more money falls out. Virtually EVERY guy in that situation shakes that tree as hard as he can, as often as he can.

AND - to put it in Context: Julio is 29 years old. A mere lad in the "Real world" - a borderline "Old Man" in the NFL. His "Money Tree" is green and lush TODAY, but in a couple years, it's going to start to dry up and wither. The number of Top-Tier NFL WR's over age 35? or over 38? Yea, not all that many.....

Again - I'm NOT saying any of this is "Right" or "Good" - just saying it's reality. THIS is the "Monster" America has produced by making the NFL our "GOD" - and "IMO" that's what it IS for far too many of us.....

Bamabuzzard · Jul 24, 2018

CrimsonForce said:
Yea, I mentioned that in my previous response that those of us who work in the real world couldn't "hold out" and not show up to work. I had another offer in hand so if my company didn't want to pay me what I thought was fair I was going to give my 2 weeks and take the other offer. I didn't lay out the conversation as a "pay me or else" but just brought up relevant factors to back up what I was asking for and they agreed. I realize that's not the exact same situation as Julio but I just brought up my experience as an anecdotal example that there's not just one way to negotiate something..

The issue isn't that the Falcons don't want to pay him what he's worth a.k.a "Give him a raise". The issue is when they are willing to sit down and do that. Julio and his agent are wanting that done now. The Falcons are wanting to wait until his current contract is closer to expiring. Just like the company I worked for where the supervisor told me that we would revisit my request for an increase in pay during my annual review. The issue was the company policy was raises/pay increases (outside of a mistake in payroll) were handled during annual reviews. When I went to my supervisor, reviews were (if I remember correctly) approximately nine months out. Shortly after my previous annual review my responsibilities drastically changed. I went from supervisor of accounting to being supervisor of accounting, a/p and payroll. I felt like that was enough change in responsibilities to change my classification from supervisor to manager. So I had to wait another 9 months until my next review for the company to review my job status.

Bamabuzzard · Jul 24, 2018

Special K said:
“But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’"

This man just went all new testament, biblical parable on us!!!! GIVE ME TWO CLAPS AND A RIC FLAIR! WOOO!!!!! ROLL TIDE SON!!!! WOOO!!!!!

crimsonaudio · Jul 24, 2018

Bamabuzzard said:
The issue isn't that the Falcons don't want to pay him what he's worth a.k.a "Give him a raise". The issue is when they are willing to sit down and do that. Julio and his agent are wanting that done now. The Falcons are wanting to wait until his current contract is closer to expiring. Just like the company I worked for where the supervisor told me that we would revisit my request for an increase in pay during my annual review. The issue was the company policy was raises/pay increases (outside of a mistake in payroll) were handled during annual reviews. When I went to my supervisor, reviews were (if I remember correctly) approximately nine months out. Shortly after my previous annual review my responsibilities drastically changed. I went from supervisor of accounting to being supervisor of accounting, a/p and payroll. I felt like that was enough change in responsibilities to change my classification from supervisor to manager. So I had to wait another 9 months until my next review for the company to review my job status.

Surely you see the difference in your situation and JJ's - his job hasn't changed, they're not asking him to do anything else he's not already agreed to do for X dollars.

Now he's decided he thinks he's worth more and refusing to do what he agreed to do (for a crap-ton of money, no less) unless they will renegotiate for even more money.

It's disgusting behavior - and I don't care if it's common or not. He's showing that greed is a stronger part of his character than his word, and that's sad.

B1GTide · Jul 24, 2018

I hope that Julio plays in their pre-season games. Each game missed costs him a ton of money (1/17th his 2018 salary).

Bamabuzzard · Jul 24, 2018

crimsonaudio said:
Surely you see the difference in your situation and JJ's - his job hasn't changed, they're not asking him to do anything else he's not already agreed to do for X dollars.

Now he's decided he thinks he's worth more and refusing to do what he agreed to do (for a crap-ton of money, no less) unless they will renegotiate for even more money.

It's disgusting behavior - and I don't care if it's common or not. He's showing that greed is a stronger part of his character than his word, and that's sad.

Yes I see the difference. I was pointing out to the poster that we're not arguing IF the Falcons wanted to give him a raise (because I've read quotes where they want to pay him more) but WHEN they were open to it. JJ and his agent want to negotiate now, the Falcons are willing closer to the end of his deal.

DzynKingRTR · Jul 24, 2018

crimsonaudio said:
Surely you see the difference in your situation and JJ's - his job hasn't changed, they're not asking him to do anything else he's not already agreed to do for X dollars.

Now he's decided he thinks he's worth more and refusing to do what he agreed to do (for a crap-ton of money, no less) unless they will renegotiate for even more money.

It's disgusting behavior - and I don't care if it's common or not. He's showing that greed is a stronger part of his character than his word, and that's sad.

As I said way early in this whole saga, he and Terrell Owens are now best buds and I still think it has rubbed off on him. I think Julio has Roddy White and TO in his ear telling him this is OK behavior. I was mocked when I suggested this. Anyone believe me now?

B1GTide · Jul 24, 2018

Bamabuzzard said:
Yes I see the difference. I was pointing out to the poster that we're not arguing IF the Falcons wanted to give him a raise (because I've read quotes where they want to pay him more) but WHEN they were open to it. JJ and his agent want to negotiate now, the Falcons are willing closer to the end of his deal.

Julio has painted himself into a corner here because the Falcons simply cannot afford to give him what he wants this year. This isn't MLB - the cap in the NFL is a hard cap.

Bamabuzzard · Jul 24, 2018

B1GTide said:
Julio has painted himself into a corner here because the Falcons simply cannot afford to give him what he wants this year. This isn't MLB - the cap in the NFL is a hard cap.

And the Falcons are holding a better hand than Julio as well.

JustNeedMe81 · Jul 24, 2018

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/atlanta-falcons

I think I see why he's doing this. Probably wants more money at end of contract.... I think Falcons and Jones needs to meet halfway and get it done.

RollTide_HTTR · Jul 24, 2018

I just don't see it as that big of a deal. Is it greedy? sure. Is it that big of a deal? Nope.

Maybe I'd feel differently if I was a Falcons fan but even then I would only become really worried/annoyed if he missed regular season games.

I guess I just feel like its his life and his job and I'm not going to judge him for how he handles that. I do think it is a little different if he starts missing regular season games though.

RollTide_HTTR · Jul 24, 2018

B1GTide said:
Julio has painted himself into a corner here because the Falcons simply cannot afford to give him what he wants this year. This isn't MLB - the cap in the NFL is a hard cap.

Do we even know what he is asking for though? I feel like we would need to know that to know if its plausible.

Power Eye · Jul 24, 2018

crimsonaudio said:
Surely you see the difference in your situation and JJ's - his job hasn't changed, they're not asking him to do anything else he's not already agreed to do for X dollars.

Now he's decided he thinks he's worth more and refusing to do what he agreed to do (for a crap-ton of money, no less) unless they will renegotiate for even more money.

It's disgusting behavior - and I don't care if it's common or not. He's showing that greed is a stronger part of his character than his word, and that's sad.

Would you agree that the teams/owners are practicing the same behavior? I guess I don't understand why his greed is any worse than theirs. These contracts are written in sand, so why shouldn't it go both ways. I just think Julio, ala Curt Flood, is breaking some ground in the sports contract world.

B1GTide · Jul 24, 2018

RollTide_HTTR said:
Do we even know what he is asking for though? I feel like we would need to know that to know if its plausible.

We do not, but if all he was asking for was a fully guaranteed contract, this deal would be done. IMO, the only reason that the Falcons would balk is a desire to make more this year in a way that would negatively impact their cap.

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